Joined on December 29, 2008
Last Post on March 9, 2014
@ December 20, 2009 10:24 AM in snow meltHurt you alot. Could have done it had you insulated. Like the others state be real careful. Your oil or gas company is going to be you new best friend once you start firing that driveway up. Your wife will love you though. You just gave here some turf conditioning along the sides of that driveway. She can grow some pretty flowers all year round now.
@ December 20, 2009 7:58 AM in adding baseboardThe basic rule of thumb for savings. For every 3 degrees I can run my system under 180 degree water I can save 1 percent of fuel. If I design properly and my boiler supply water temp max is 140 degrees that is a 12% fuel savings if that was constant. Now think about how many heating days your at design. Maybe 5 if your lucky in my area. In the system in my previous post I'm betting on an average water temp of 125 or so. That equates to almost a 20% savings. Plus I'm condensing the whole season so my efficiency rating stays alot closer to that 95% rating versus a boiler designed for 180 or so. At 180 your really only running at around 87 to 90 percent. It boils down to system efficiency. Everyone gets caught up in AFUE. I feel that system efficiency is more important. It's what you do with the energy produced by your fuel dollars that counts.
@ December 20, 2009 7:29 AM in Taco VDT PumpThe first pump already went back to Taco. The second will get back to them this week. They are very interested to in trying to find the cause. I will let you guys know what I find out.
@ December 20, 2009 7:01 AM in adding baseboardIs based on a combination of flowrate and water temp. Providing you do a heat loss of the home and break out the loss of each zone you can run what ever temp you want as long as the board is sized correctly. I posted about a job the other day, Fin tube board with mod-con. Temp outside was 27 degrees, the boiler temp 108 and a system supply water temp of 98 through the board and the house was 70 in all 5 zones. Thursday night here is was 7 degrees. Boiler temp was 135 and system supply temp 128. It all comes down to design. There is a de-rating chart that Meztek, the makers of SunTemp, Embassy and other boards gave me. It' will give you the factors to calculate the output of board all the way down to 100 degree water at a 1gpm flow rate. You then use the flow rate correction factors to get your output.
If you are deciding to try this. I would also use a high output board. It will give you much more flexability in water temps.
@ December 19, 2009 6:44 PM in Using a Mod-Con with Cast Iron Radiators and Finned Tube RadiationI recently designed a system as this for one of my contractors. We used a Viessmann Vitodens 200. The boiler control can run 2 heating curves plus domestic hot water. We used the boilers reset for the fin tube curve and a motorized modulating 3-way mixing valve that plugs into the control for a second heating curve for the cast iron zones. We zoned pumps. I would rather use a low loss header/hydro seperator for mod-cons vs primary/secondary. This eliminates the temperature drop between zones when multiple zones call and it promotes condensing. Primary/Secondary is great when you have a cast iron boiler and need some boiler protection.
Make sure you do a heat loss. If you decided to primary/secondary its a good idea to figure out each zones loss and make sure that the amount of radiation can cover the loss when multiple zones are open. You will with primary/seconday have a supply water temp difference in each zone when multiple zones are calling.
@ December 19, 2009 6:26 PM in Do water baseboard heat systems ever share hot water with the tap hot water?If you turn on the hot water tap without cold water you would get instantly burnt. What type of boiler do you have? Does the boiler have a hot water coil in it? Take a few pics and post.
@ December 19, 2009 4:30 PM in Comment on the Article Woman Pays Sout Jersey Gas BillsI would be curious to know what brand of heating system this was. Back in the day and in times of no heat we walk out to the warehouse and strip a piece of equipment for the part and put it back in when it came in. Matter of fact did this exact same thing a week ago for someone that has his electrician fry his boiler controls and sensors. No heat means you do what is necessary to get the customer heat. Who cares if its a warranty issue. There is also a thing called UPS Next Day Air Saturday,
Curious also know if a manufacture sells direct to this utility company or if they have to buy from the same supply house as the rest of the trade do.
@ December 19, 2009 3:24 PM in Control ZV - What Tells the Boiler to Come OnIf your plan is to zone all zone valves then buy a Taco ZVC-406 or equiv. Wire the zone valves and therm per the wiring diagram and take the end switch from the zone control to RT on the boiler.
@ December 19, 2009 10:12 AM in Mark Eathertonfor taking the time to respond. Look forward to reading the link you provided. We have the same issue here. No liciensing by the state yet certain municipalites require their own. Electrical contractors were just being required to obtain their license this past July in Orange County NY looks like they are attempting to hit our trade next. Thanks again and happy holidays to you and your family.
@ December 18, 2009 7:19 PM in Mark EathertonWhile surfing around I came across an article you wrote for Contractor Mag back i Jan 2001, Code of standards is needed, and now
Where does the RPA and the code stand 9 years later? You wrote a very nice article and I couldn't agree with it more. Just curious to see if it fell flat on its face or has there been any progress. Happy holidays..
@ December 18, 2009 6:58 PM in Taco VDT PumpHas anyone used this pump as their system pump in mod/con application where you were zoning with zone valves? I had a couple of my top notch contractors install them in the last month and both pumps were making so much noise. Both jobs were in their houses. They were testing them out prior to making a decision on putting them in their customers homes.
Both were installed on Vitodens 200's using Low Loss Headers not primary secondary. Once we changed them out and used Grundfos Alpha, noise gone and running smooth. I'm thinking the Delta P pump is more reactive to the consistent flow and water temp changes in the system vs the Delta-T pump. Anyone have a theory or some thought?
@ December 18, 2009 6:19 PM in radiant heat through three layers of flooringFloor R-value is going to be in the 2.5 area. Typical sub and hardwood is 1.68. I would make sure someone does a radiant heat loss and design before you decided to do this. You may find depending on sqft of floor that you may not be able to heat the room. Some type of joist trak plates is a must and you may even consider some radiant wall to keep your water temps down. Your going to have a high water temp at design conditions. You may not be able to take advantage of the full range of the mod/con without some supplemental heat.
@ December 18, 2009 3:00 PM in sedimentthe magical potion that Weil is now selling with all their boilers. The Weil service bulletin sent out in September is attached.
@ December 18, 2009 2:55 PM in Outdoor reset, and how low a temp can I operate a Burnham V8 cast iron oil boiler without condensation problems?Is minimum return water temp back to the boiler. Once you drop below that you take the chance of cracking a block and once below 135 the chimmney will begin to condense another no no.
@ December 18, 2009 8:55 AM in Wouldn't Believe It If I Hadn't Seen ItWould have been nice to have some radiant but retro-fit job. My customer really wanted to see what he could do with the boiler on retrofit baseboard jobs. He does alot of replacment boilers in exisiting homes. The goal is to make the boiler as affordable as possible with the best payback. He using his own house as a test case.
@ December 18, 2009 8:54 AM in Wouldn't Believe It If I Hadn't Seen ItWould have been nice to have some radiant but retro-fit job. My customer really wanted to see what he could do with the boiler on retrofit baseboard jobs. He does alot of replacment boilers in exisiting homes. The goal is to make the boiler as affordable as possible with the best payback. He using his own house as a test case.
@ December 18, 2009 6:50 AM in How short can a primary loop be?Scrap the primary secondary and use a LLH. This will help in a few ways. No water temp differences across the zones as zone open at the same time and will help the boiler to promote condensing.
@ December 17, 2009 3:11 PM in Loops, more short ones vs fewer longs ones?since 1990. In the 20 plus yrs of doing radiant in residential applications I have never used a pump other than a Taco 007 or a Grundfos UPS15-58 for any application. Your pump does not need to overcome the total head loss of all the loops only the highest head. If it can overcome the highest it can overcome all.
I had thought in your original post cost of labor was some what of an issue. I can pull 3/8" a heck of alot faster, meaning less time and more money in my pocket. So that 12% turns into 25%. As for price of plates they I sell them for the same price.
@ December 17, 2009 2:56 PM in Wouldn't Believe It If I Hadn't Seen ItWith my on eyes. Went to a job this morning at a contractor house where we put in the new Vitodens 200. This customer has installed alot of mod/cons but his house was his first Viessmann. a WB2B-26. The house is all baseboard, 5 zones of it. He did put in some Suntemp 800 series in a couple of the zones the rest is basic residential board. It is zoned with zone valves and we used a Grundfos Alpha as our system pump. The main zone also has a Vitorol 300. This morning it was 27 degree outside and the boiler water temp was 108 and on the system side of the low loss header was 98 degrees. 98 degree water was supplying this house and every single zone in the house was 70 degrees and comfortable. The boiler has been in for a month and he has yet seen any water temp above 120 degrees. The coldest it has gotten here to this point is 17 degrees or so. Has anyone else experienced this in this type of application?
This has my brain asking the question. If I can design/do this in a baseboard application properly controlled with a Mod/Con is it a bigger bang for the buck for the customer than installing a complete radiant system? Is the money/efficiency savings for radiant truly any better than what is being experienced here?
@ December 17, 2009 2:00 PM in Still hate a lot about this new wallOne of the features of the old wall I liked best was getting e-mail notifications on the threads you were apart of. I can understand why the change but it would be nice if we had the choice of whether or not we wanted to get e-mailed concerning a particular post and or thread.
@ December 17, 2009 1:20 PM in Loops, more short ones vs fewer longs ones?Your talking about saving dollars because of labor and loop lengths but you are using 1/2" tubing and plates. How about 3/8" tubing and plates since 1/2" doesn't give you any more btus than 3/8" cost less and is heck of alot easier to pull. We try to keep out loop lengths even across the floor. Makes balancing a heck of alot easier.
@ December 17, 2009 1:13 PM in start date for warranties?The warranty on zones valves is 18 months from date it was shipped to the wholesaler. They give an extra 6 months for self life.