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Joined on December 29, 2008

Last Post on April 1, 2014

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Alum vs Stainless

@ July 25, 2009 6:31 PM in Boilers - Aluminum vs. Stainless

The easiset was to anwser your question is to look at the table of metals. Stainless is by far a better material. Like the post below alum is used because of it's heat transfer but what it gives longevity. While it's not avail to the rest of the country only the Northeast right now I would look at the Vitodens Boiler from Viessmann. I have a post in the thread on the boiler so I won't go into it here. The biggeset advantage that I didn't state in my thread is 2yr warranty parts, 10 years full on heat exchanger but it's pro-rated and you will never pay more than 50% of it's value after the 15th year for a replacement. Every other manufacture warranty is only 1yr parts and 10yrs on heat exchanger after that you are on you own.

New Vitodens Boiler

@ July 25, 2009 6:29 PM in Boiler

Has anyone had the pleasure of seeing the new Vitodens 100 and 200 boilers from Viessmann. I've been dealing with Viessmann for a number of years they have finally come up with a boiler that contends price wise with every other wall hung out there with a much better boiler. The new burner on the 200 is unbelievable. If will fire nat/lp gas without having to touch it and also looks at gas pressure and adjusts accordingly. No more nusiance lockouts do to loss of gas pressure. Will fire down to 2"wc on Nat Gas and 4"wc on LP. It comes standard with the Vitotronic 200 control so you can do high temp, low temp, domestic, add motorized mix vlvs without having to add anything. The 100 is now outdoor reset standard at the same price as the older 100. The 200 has comes down 25%-35% in price and they have added bigger sizes. Watch out Buderus and the rest Viessmann is now in your price ball park!

Best Way

@ July 25, 2009 6:21 PM in Increasing efficiency

In my opinion would be to 1st scrap the tankless coil and add an indirect water heater. Second make sure I also add a zone control w/priority. Third, either add a Beckett Heat Manager or outdoor reset. This is how I would start. Do a heat loss of each room. Compare the heat loss to your current heat emiiters (baseboard, radiators, etc). Come up with a curve. I would proably use Taco Zone controls so I could add the PC701 outdoor reset control. I would then make sure I repiped the enitre system for constant circulation and make sure I have a boiler by-pass to protect my old 1950's technology boiler from cracking. Now if I couldn't re-pipe the entire system I would def do the boiler by-pass. I would also take a look at my firing rate to see if I could down-fire the boiler also. Good luck.


@ July 24, 2009 1:54 PM in high efficiency boiler - which is better

low loss header

Viessmann Vitodens Boilers

@ July 23, 2009 7:55 AM in Viessmann Vitodens Boilers

Many of you may not know but Viessmann has made a change to the Vitodens 100 and 200 boiler and it is only being release to the Northeast at the current time. For those of you in other areas of the country that sell Viessmann I have some of what you know to be the current boiler that I am looking to get rid of at a big discounted price. If your interested let me know.

Wall Hungs

@ July 23, 2009 7:49 AM in high efficiency boiler - which is better

If we are talking about the new Vitodens 100 boiler that was released July 1 then hands down that is the best buy. Here's why? 1. 316 Titanium Stainless Heat Exchanger. You can't change the periodic table. Strongest Heat Exch on the market today. 2. Limited Lifetime Warranty, 10 yrs full, pro-rated and you will never pay more than 50% of it's value after the 15th year. No other manufacture can match that. 3. No primary secondary piping needed or additional pump to get through the boiler. 4. Can vent multiple ways.

What was the sufrace

@ January 14, 2009 6:44 PM in Hydronic In floor heat - is this normal

temp of the floor? What is your supply water temp going to the floor? What is the finished floor?

Has anyone or Does anyone know

@ January 14, 2009 6:32 PM in Instantaneous Water Heater

Of an application for a Nortiz Stainless Steel 931 ASME Direct Vent for commerical dishwashing. The unit will handle the GPM and we can provide 180 degree water through the wash cycle. The question that has come up is what happens when the commerical dishwasher goes into rinse cycle and has that quick 5-7 second dump? Will we maintain 180 degree water? I know you can pipe a recirc line but that defeats the selling point of the unit. Does anyone have an installation like this?


@ January 14, 2009 6:20 PM in Becket heat manager fail?

Sensors are sold seperatly..Have them on the shelf..

Can you

@ January 14, 2009 6:17 PM in Adding more radiant to system

Provide a piping diagram of your existing system?

Radiant Ceiling

@ January 13, 2009 7:27 PM in Radiant ceiling

I've attached a nice explanation on how to design it. Hopefully is will help you out and anwser your questions. Best of Luck.

Radiant Ceiling

@ January 13, 2009 7:24 PM in Radiant ceiling

Maybe this attchement will help you out. Best of luck

There is

@ January 13, 2009 7:02 PM in Adding more radiant to system

How about a nice set point control that will sense floor temp or air temp seperately or a combinbation of both. It's also programable and will learn the curve the room. Take a look at the Wirsbo 511's. I will again go back to the fact that I think you should scrap that Buderus control. You can use the exisiting modulating mixing vlv.

Scrap the Buderus Control

@ January 12, 2009 7:49 PM in Adding more radiant to system

Are you willing to scrap the buderus control? If so, take a look at the wirsbo climate control. You will still be able to use the ESBE (Buderus) modulating mixing vlv for your 1st floor an will be able to add an additional modulating mixing vlv for your addition. The control will also give you outdoor reset for your boiler and indirect priorty for your domestic. The control will even turn a light on in the house if you want it to. The control is not a control in the aspect of your current buderus control but a software program that you dictate what you want to control. Basically your designing your own custom control stragety for your needs. It'll give you the best bang for your buck while also allowing for any future addtions. You cannot add an additional FM card to your current control. You would have to add some other type of control, (ie, TEKMAR, Taco RMB etc). Why not simplify your system to 1 control? Adding an addtional manifold may not give you what you are looking for. I'm sure that the addition is not on the same heating curve as the 1st floor. Wouldn't you like to be able to fine tune your system to your living conditions? Best of Luck..

I got a 100 bucks

@ January 7, 2009 10:13 PM in Advice for upgrading system

says the boiler is too small for the load.

Joist Heating

@ January 7, 2009 10:02 PM in Thermofin v. Thinfin

In general I use Wirsbo Joist Trak and always 3/8" tubing..Alot easier to pull and you don't get more btu's out of 1/2" just 50' more loop length.. I always loop each room seperately. I also always determine my zoning based on solar gain and layout with the exception of my kitchens which are always on their own zone and with a floor sensor. I don't like on/off radiant systems they tend to chase the day. I'd rather always have some type of floor temp running that way when the big heat tab in the sky falls I'm not dead cold. As far as delta T goes. Generally all joist appliacations run between a 15 and 20 degree delta t. Only time 10 is in slab applications.

Sorry But

@ January 7, 2009 9:28 PM in mixing valve

that makes no sense. An indirect tank is using the boiler to supply it's hot water threw the coil. Has to be zoned off the boiler.

Not a Heat Loss

@ January 7, 2009 9:17 PM in effiency and programmable thermostats in gas boilers

While I respect the persons that is providing solutions for this site. In this application a heat loss is not the beginning process. You already have an existing system load. What I mean by this is that you already have heat emiiters in the home. Whether they are fin-tube baseboard, cast iron board, radiators or some other form of distribution. You need to calculate the load you need to produce or satisfy. If you have the following use these formulas to calculate the load you need to provided: Fin-Tube Residential Baseboard....Add up all the footage of board and multiply by 590..On average there are 590 btus in a foot of baseboard. Fin-Tube Hi-Capacity Baseboard..... Same as above except subsitute 810 for the 590. Cast-Iron Board ..... 610 Radiators...You must calculate the sqft of EDR and mult by 250. Burnhams website has literature on how to measure radiators. As far as boilers go.. Look at the system you have currently. How is it piped and zoned. You don't want to put a cadillac heat plant into worn old tires. What does it matter that you can produce enery efficiently if you can't deliver that energy in the same manner. Pick which boiler will give you the best bang for your buck. If you have a fin-tubed baseboard system I would recommend either the Viessmannn Vitodens 100 or the Munchkin Contender Series. Not alot of bells and whistles with the 90 plus eff.. Would you put leather in a 1966 Beattle?

Quick Question

@ January 7, 2009 9:03 PM in mixing valve

Are you using a Zone Control with Priority for your zones?

Simple Anwser

@ January 7, 2009 9:01 PM in Weil McLain v Peerless Boilers

Would you like a boiler that is 87% AFUE or 81% AFUE for starters? I don't know what part of the country you are in but there are rebates out there for the 87%AFUE..I'd go with the Burnham Megasteam hands down

Apple To Apple or Orange to Apple

@ January 7, 2009 8:57 PM in Why Viessmann Cost More

Weird subj line aye. Here's the simple difference between Viessmann and everyone else...Viessmann builds complete hydronic control systems not just boilers. I can do multiple jobs with the same piece of equip in a varitey of ways. My heat exhanger of 3-16th's titanium steel is umatched as is my DOT matricx burner on my wall hungs and on my oil..Forget it. My burner blows away the becketts, riellos of the world and you don't need alot of tools to fix me. The technicians that install and service me are factory trained. And most importantly "Like the Maytag Man". I don't break down..

Oppotunity missed

@ January 7, 2009 8:20 PM in advise on getting more radiant jobs

I completely understand your frustration as I see the same results on a daily basis. While I work in the wholesale side of the business I started doing radiant in the late 80's and do small jobs here and there. But you've fallen into the trap that most of my die hard radiant guys have but you like them are missing a great opportunity. The customer wanted radiant. He or she has already told you that they have a bigger budget then a basic fin-tubed basebaord job. Use this to your advantage. What would be wrong with giving them options in your quotes. Give them the "A" option which is what they want but come up with a "B" and "C" option for the job. Your selling hydronics not radiant. Like some of the previous posts, maybe the entry, kitchen and master bath suite as radiant but how about some type of panel baseboard for the rest of the house. How about a mix or radiant, panel board and fin-tube. Most contractors, not all miss the boat on selling hydronics. Boiler piping and control strategy also play a big part. You may not be able to sell 100% radiant but you can up-sell certain parts of the job, still make a nice profit, fit the customers budget area while providing them with a hydronic system that you can be proud of installing. The biggest problem that I see within our industry is that alot of contractors lack good communication skills, they quote jobs with blinders and are so afraid to educate their customers. I cannot stress the education part more. Here's a recent example.. I had a homeowner come into me with a print. They already had a contractor on the job that I do no business with. She wanted radiant in the foyer entry, kitchen and master suite. After speaking with her I found out the following. Munchkin Boiler, Hydro Air, Radiant was floor warming. Her concern was that she thought this contractor was banging her on the price of the radiant. He quoted her $7,500.00 for the radiant. I took the print, came up with a design based on the price he quoted her. He was doing joist heating no plates with thermostatics for mixing and just thermostats for zoning. I told her that for what he was giving her it was a fair and correct price. I then explained how this system would work and why it was the most inexpensive and going to be the most uncomfortable system. I then did my own design. Quick Trak with programmable floor sensors and a Taco radiant mixing block. Material alone was the same cost as what he quoted her for the entire job. But I educated her. Told her why the sensors, why to use the mixing block. I left the decision in her hands on which system she wanted. So I gave her a sample of the quick trak to bring to her husband, numbers on both systems and questions that she should ask her contactor. Then next day she comes back. She asks me if I know a contractor that could do radiant. I told her that I did but that I would not give her his number unless she decided to have it installed the way I designed it as he wouldn't do it any other way and I wouldn't want her to waste his time. She says "While money was somewhat of an issue she would rather spend the money for what she wants then to spend 7,500 for someting she would regret." In the end the contractor I gave her is doing the job. My point..EDUCATE YOUR CUSTOMERS, GIVE OPTIONS, and DON"T BE AFRAID THEY WANT TO LEARN. Best of Luck