Joined on December 29, 2008
Last Post on March 9, 2014
@ January 7, 2009 10:02 PM in Thermofin v. ThinfinIn general I use Wirsbo Joist Trak and always 3/8" tubing..Alot easier to pull and you don't get more btu's out of 1/2" just 50' more loop length.. I always loop each room seperately. I also always determine my zoning based on solar gain and layout with the exception of my kitchens which are always on their own zone and with a floor sensor. I don't like on/off radiant systems they tend to chase the day. I'd rather always have some type of floor temp running that way when the big heat tab in the sky falls I'm not dead cold. As far as delta T goes. Generally all joist appliacations run between a 15 and 20 degree delta t. Only time 10 is in slab applications.
@ January 7, 2009 9:28 PM in mixing valvethat makes no sense. An indirect tank is using the boiler to supply it's hot water threw the coil. Has to be zoned off the boiler.
@ January 7, 2009 9:17 PM in effiency and programmable thermostats in gas boilersWhile I respect the persons that is providing solutions for this site. In this application a heat loss is not the beginning process. You already have an existing system load. What I mean by this is that you already have heat emiiters in the home. Whether they are fin-tube baseboard, cast iron board, radiators or some other form of distribution. You need to calculate the load you need to produce or satisfy. If you have the following use these formulas to calculate the load you need to provided: Fin-Tube Residential Baseboard....Add up all the footage of board and multiply by 590..On average there are 590 btus in a foot of baseboard. Fin-Tube Hi-Capacity Baseboard..... Same as above except subsitute 810 for the 590. Cast-Iron Board ..... 610 Radiators...You must calculate the sqft of EDR and mult by 250. Burnhams website has literature on how to measure radiators. As far as boilers go.. Look at the system you have currently. How is it piped and zoned. You don't want to put a cadillac heat plant into worn old tires. What does it matter that you can produce enery efficiently if you can't deliver that energy in the same manner. Pick which boiler will give you the best bang for your buck. If you have a fin-tubed baseboard system I would recommend either the Viessmannn Vitodens 100 or the Munchkin Contender Series. Not alot of bells and whistles with the 90 plus eff.. Would you put leather in a 1966 Beattle?
@ January 7, 2009 9:03 PM in mixing valveAre you using a Zone Control with Priority for your zones?
@ January 7, 2009 9:01 PM in Weil McLain v Peerless BoilersWould you like a boiler that is 87% AFUE or 81% AFUE for starters? I don't know what part of the country you are in but there are rebates out there for the 87%AFUE..I'd go with the Burnham Megasteam hands down
@ January 7, 2009 8:57 PM in Why Viessmann Cost MoreWeird subj line aye. Here's the simple difference between Viessmann and everyone else...Viessmann builds complete hydronic control systems not just boilers. I can do multiple jobs with the same piece of equip in a varitey of ways. My heat exhanger of 3-16th's titanium steel is umatched as is my DOT matricx burner on my wall hungs and on my oil..Forget it. My burner blows away the becketts, riellos of the world and you don't need alot of tools to fix me. The technicians that install and service me are factory trained. And most importantly "Like the Maytag Man". I don't break down..
@ January 7, 2009 8:20 PM in advise on getting more radiant jobsI completely understand your frustration as I see the same results on a daily basis. While I work in the wholesale side of the business I started doing radiant in the late 80's and do small jobs here and there. But you've fallen into the trap that most of my die hard radiant guys have but you like them are missing a great opportunity. The customer wanted radiant. He or she has already told you that they have a bigger budget then a basic fin-tubed basebaord job. Use this to your advantage. What would be wrong with giving them options in your quotes. Give them the "A" option which is what they want but come up with a "B" and "C" option for the job. Your selling hydronics not radiant. Like some of the previous posts, maybe the entry, kitchen and master bath suite as radiant but how about some type of panel baseboard for the rest of the house. How about a mix or radiant, panel board and fin-tube. Most contractors, not all miss the boat on selling hydronics. Boiler piping and control strategy also play a big part. You may not be able to sell 100% radiant but you can up-sell certain parts of the job, still make a nice profit, fit the customers budget area while providing them with a hydronic system that you can be proud of installing. The biggest problem that I see within our industry is that alot of contractors lack good communication skills, they quote jobs with blinders and are so afraid to educate their customers. I cannot stress the education part more. Here's a recent example.. I had a homeowner come into me with a print. They already had a contractor on the job that I do no business with. She wanted radiant in the foyer entry, kitchen and master suite. After speaking with her I found out the following. Munchkin Boiler, Hydro Air, Radiant was floor warming. Her concern was that she thought this contractor was banging her on the price of the radiant. He quoted her $7,500.00 for the radiant. I took the print, came up with a design based on the price he quoted her. He was doing joist heating no plates with thermostatics for mixing and just thermostats for zoning. I told her that for what he was giving her it was a fair and correct price. I then explained how this system would work and why it was the most inexpensive and going to be the most uncomfortable system. I then did my own design. Quick Trak with programmable floor sensors and a Taco radiant mixing block. Material alone was the same cost as what he quoted her for the entire job. But I educated her. Told her why the sensors, why to use the mixing block. I left the decision in her hands on which system she wanted. So I gave her a sample of the quick trak to bring to her husband, numbers on both systems and questions that she should ask her contactor. Then next day she comes back. She asks me if I know a contractor that could do radiant. I told her that I did but that I would not give her his number unless she decided to have it installed the way I designed it as he wouldn't do it any other way and I wouldn't want her to waste his time. She says "While money was somewhat of an issue she would rather spend the money for what she wants then to spend 7,500 for someting she would regret." In the end the contractor I gave her is doing the job. My point..EDUCATE YOUR CUSTOMERS, GIVE OPTIONS, and DON"T BE AFRAID THEY WANT TO LEARN. Best of Luck
@ December 29, 2008 9:09 PM in Radiant floor heating helpYou state that the system doesn't seem to heat well. Can you define that? What are the floor surface temps? What is the water supply temp? Is a particular room that is a problem or all the rooms? Seems that you are getting heat but not enough. Is the mixing vlv a thermostatic vlv? What size is it? Let's take 1 room that is giving you a problem? What is the floor surface temp? What is the water temp going out to the floor, what is the total square footage of the floor and what is the finished floor surface? What also is the application for this floor (ie, slab? plates? no plates?).