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Joined on December 29, 2008

Last Post on July 29, 2014

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To High?

@ July 1, 2014 11:56 AM in New gas boiler sizing

Are you sure the price is too high or is that your budget is to low for a high efficiency system? I don't shop at a Mercedes dealership knowing my wallet only carries the affordability of a Ford or Chevy.

It is not the contractor's job to make the best affordable to you, it's up to you to get the best system you can for the budget you have.

You should be divulging that up front to potential bidders so that you're not wasting their time and they could then provide you a quote based on your budget. There is also nothing wrong with getting multiple quotes from the same contractor for multiple options and make your choice from there.


@ June 29, 2014 11:13 AM in Typical venting for high-efficiency wall-hung boilers?

Centrotherm is nothing new. Been dealing with them for 4 years now. Just because
you've had an experience from the uninformed and what seems like suppliers that
are not keeping up with advances in the industry isn't the product or Centrotherms issue.

Here's where that additonal cost makes sense. I'm giving Mr and Mrs Homeowner a UL
Certified and tested venting product not a vent system that is installed with material that
moves waste into a sewer or septic system. Secondary Mr and Mrs Homeowner I'm
providing a venting system that carries a 10yr warranty.

OMG, SMH, Are You Serious

@ June 18, 2014 3:48 PM in 95% Efficient Condensing Replacement Boiler

The on board pump can only move 5gpm across the Navien HX. So what has to change to get the btu/hr out of the boiler when not piped pri'/sec.....THE DELTA-T.. How many fin-tube and even cast iron systems you see out there running on a

120,000/500/5 = 48 Degree Delta-T... Zero, zippo, nodda!

Its not the boiler that is delivering the 120,000 btu/hr when piped primary secondary and you can take that to the bank!

Where Are You Located

@ June 14, 2014 3:29 PM in Typical venting for high-efficiency wall-hung boilers?

Is the question that needs to be asked. Cause if you live in the 5 Boroughs of NYC come Sept 1, you cannot vent ANY piece of equipment with PVC regardless of what the install manual says.

There are also a few municipalities out in LI that already will not allow it. It's a slowly changing thing so I'd make sure that there are no changes being made to the building code in your, city, town or village.

Its Funny How

@ May 21, 2014 7:38 PM in Help diagnosing hydro air problems....

the internet is so vast but yet such a small place. The OP has a contractor, one of the best around in his market. Think I'll leave this one alone, we all have better things to do with our time.

You Have Plenty of Pump

@ May 21, 2014 6:41 PM in Help diagnosing hydro air problems....

Probably too much pump. That's why I asked and you still haven't answered. What is the supply water temp leaving the zone and what is the return water temp coming back.

I'm Not Suggesting Anything

@ May 21, 2014 11:20 AM in Help diagnosing hydro air problems....

Not on the job..

You Don't

@ May 21, 2014 11:02 AM in Help diagnosing hydro air problems....

Account for the indirect in a heat loss. It has nothing to do with the heating system, though there should be a priority zone control used so when it calls the heating zones shut down, tank gets satisfied with all the boilers muscle quickly and the heating zones are activated again.

If that A/H is only doing the 2nd floor then the pipe size to it is fine.

Yeah there is..Figure out pump head, and then look at the pumps curve.

Not Sure If You Are Replying

@ May 21, 2014 10:51 AM in Help diagnosing hydro air problems....

To my post Ice but last I checked

60,000/ (500 x 4) = 30 Degree Delta-T. I'd also make sure my aquastat was on the return, not on the supply and my fan speed was low. All is mute anyway without a proper heat loss..Pressure drop across the a/h is prob minimal 5' maybe..

If its just a straight shot from the boiler room to the attice best bet is to just run some 1" HePex and be done with it.

The Anwser

@ May 21, 2014 9:05 AM in Help diagnosing hydro air problems....

To your question is in a heat loss and this. A btu is a btu. I can still get 60,000 btu/hr thru 3/4" pipe..

Loop Length

@ May 21, 2014 8:59 AM in Series pumps and my hydronic comedy of errors

Wouldn't it make more sense to weigh the water in each loop? There are .92 gallons in 100 feet of 1/2" pex. Just saying, seems like a much easier way to get actual loops lengths.

Heat Loss Program Blah

@ May 12, 2014 8:15 AM in Heat Loss discrepancy

Forget any program for a minute and think about this. No matter radiant, forced air, baseboard, etc you cannot get around his simple math problem to calculate heat loss thru an out side panel. Air Exchange/Infiltration is the moving target.

(Ti-To)/R-Value = Btu/hr Sqft

Ti = Temp Indoor
To= Temp Outdoor
R-Value is self explanatory.

That's Old School

@ May 8, 2014 9:23 AM in Heat Loss discrepancy

Methodology..What's in the wall? What type of windows, etc all go to infiltration. There is no way that this particular house needs 46 btu/hr sqft based on that 140K heat loss.

I just did a 9,000 sqft house, all radiant, total heat loss = 54K. Average conventional heat loss for a 3,000 sqft house R-19 Walls, R30- Attic, Low-E Windows is around 40K. I think Rich's number for his last project is much closer to what the heat loss of this house is then the original poster.

I Have Been Using

@ May 8, 2014 7:53 AM in Heat Loss discrepancy

ADS since its conception 20 years ago. It is a Manual J based program. The critical part to the software for accuracy is air exchanges.. If a home has R-19 Walls, 30 Attic, Updated windows I use a .75 for air changes when doing baseboard. R-11 Walls, i'll use a 1..

I would question that 145K was high IMO. That's 46 btu/hr sqft based on the square footage you posted. At that rate curtains would be blowing from all the convection pouring from the board..

Design, Design, Design

@ May 3, 2014 7:38 AM in List of small mod/cons

Installers and homeowners tend to pay too much focus to the heating plant and the boiler room. They also don't develop what I call long term heating system upgrade plans.

There's a lot of throwing about percentage numbers about savings in retrofit systems and many lose site of opportunity. I never for the most part see us talking about water temperature. HeatPro always brings in the small cast iron boiler and many others about the low end of the modulation rate. As SWEI pointed out that is generally the culprit and cause of short cycling, not the high end. Boiler will never get out to the high end if the system doesn't ask for it.

The opportunity I'm talking about is this. How many of you have walked into a home with simple residential baseboard where the homeowner wants a Mod/Con and all you give them is the Mod/Con? The boiler is just a heating plant, it makes energy and that for the most part is its job period. There's an entire system out their that needs the same upgrade as you just did in the boiler room.

Sit back and think about your last 5 installs. Was there an opportunity in any of them to develop a long term heating system upgrade. At the time you quoted the job, did you give the customer options to changing out that residential baseboard for high capacity board to get that water temperature down? No, Why not? Maybe you thought they couldn't afford it or maybe you did offer and they couldn't. Why not give the consumer the number to change it out, tell them to put away their pennies for next year and change out Zone 1. Maybe the following year Zone 2 and so on. Provide the customer with continually upgrades that will show in their utility bills year after year. Maybe even throw in that yearly service for free at the time you do these upgrades giving the customer even more value.

There are plenty of opportunities and tools available to continually upgrade a heating system. It doesn't mean just the boiler and this is an opportunity that in my opinion is missed daily.

Depends on the type of Plate

@ April 29, 2014 9:36 AM in 2x8 Floor Joists 1/2 Pex with Heat Transfer Plates - Faced or Unfaced Fiberglass

If you're using the extruded alum plates such as Uponor/Wirsbo Joist Trak no air gap is required. Heat transfer is direct from plate to floor. The benefit, quicker floor response time, lower water temp and even floor surface temps. Min insulation required is R11 but insulation is our friend so the more the merrier..Could care less about type its all about

If you're using those cheap tin plates, yup need the 2" air gap. But you'll give up the benefits of the extruded plates.

The Next Big Thing

@ April 29, 2014 9:31 AM in Favorite Mod Con.

Out in the market has been around for years. I'll take a Viessmann Vitodens 200 hands down over anything else on the market.

Nice One SWEI

@ April 23, 2014 6:03 PM in What's your opinion on this design...

Don't think its in the

I Do an I-Valve

@ April 23, 2014 5:51 PM in What's your opinion on this design...

Way before I'd do that RMB and then use the extra $$ I saved to use Bumble Pumps..

Don't Need The By-Pass

@ April 20, 2014 9:10 AM in Boiler Protection Piping

Simply use a 4-way vs a 3-way Mixing valve - simplifies piping and you get the same result.

Heat Loss Program

@ April 1, 2014 11:42 AM in Navien 100,000 btu heating

No. I have Ziggy's software and I use Uponor's ADS software.

You do see that they system side is only running on a 10 degree delta right? I used 160 return to simulate what installers think. That they are running a system side 20 degree delta supplying 180 degree water... It's just not the case. If you change that system return you system supply temp is going to decrease..


@ April 1, 2014 9:47 AM in How To Make Current System More Efficient

reset the system not the equipment.. Use a 3-way modulating mixing valve. Does the pellet boiler have a 0-10VDC input in the control? If so, you can use a Tekmar control for the ODR of the boiler..
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