Joined on December 29, 2008
Last Post on February 25, 2014
@ October 15, 2013 7:22 PM in Need help to select between System 2000 EK1 and Burnham MPO-IQ 115The System 2000 will save more fuel then the Burnham MPO. Both, no matter how you look at it, fire at a fixed rate, I can pre and post purge my pumps on the Bunrham no different then that EK. That Burnham will take 110 degree return water temp so with the cost of a simple plug in ODR card I can make it more efficient then that System 2000 at a heck of a lesser price.
I'd even go to the extent that one could take a Crown TWZ, standard pin boiler, add a Taco SR501-OR and make it just as or more efficient then that system 2000.
The equipment isn't a magic wand to fuel savings the installation is.
@ October 14, 2013 11:23 AM in new mod/con w/indirect question mockupNice software. What is it and where can I find it. Might want to keep this in your pocket in case you need it. See the Alpine article. I wouldn't be zoning out rather I'd be adding thermostatic valves, use an Alpha, run constant circulation and call it a day.
@ October 13, 2013 6:43 PM in Different take on tankless vs bufferedHas a min of 12 Input..You can cap off the high end of the modulation rate for heating independent of DHW. You also won't have to pri/sec pipe it either. Set the pump so the boiler works on off a 40 Rise and your boiler flow rate is only 3.1gpm.
@ October 13, 2013 11:02 AM in Primary secondary ?The systems pumps have no influence on the primary pumps! The expansion tank should be piped on the primary/boiler side before the boilers circ so you would be pumping away!
You can place your system pumps where ever you want!
@ October 8, 2013 1:17 PM in TT110 Trimax control questionTalking about 2 closely spaced tees equates to more cost and effort then just using a low loss header which will also act as you air/dirt elimination. Let the on board pump do its job and do what ever you want on the secondary side.
@ October 5, 2013 7:05 PM in Different take on tankless vs bufferedYou never add btu/hr for domestic hot water unless the DHW load itself is larger then the heat loss of the home. For some condensing boilers out their such as Viessmann, Burnham Alpine and I believe the Loch. You can cap off the high end of the modulation rate for heating independent of DHW.
The main cause of condensing boiler short cycling is not the max btu/hr the boiler can put out. The boiler will never give it until its needed. The problem is the low end and the size of the boiler pump that creates short cycling. There is no manufacture on earth that will warranty for a short cycling boiler. If a part failed it wasn't because it was defective but rather beat the heck out of. ie, improper installation.
I'd take a look at this. Wouldn't need to be piped pri/sec and blows away a tankless and in my opinion a boiler/indirect option especially for such a small heating load and domestic load.
@ October 4, 2013 10:22 AM in Triangle Prestige ExcellenceWhile a good product. This one has a much better warranty, combustion system and will provide better DHW production.
@ October 3, 2013 11:16 AM in Great ArticleFrom Ron Beck on short cycling Alpine Boilers in this month US Boiler Report. If your not getting this monthly suggest you subscribe.
@ September 29, 2013 6:36 PM in First high efficiency boiler on my own...short cycling! Help!I don't think a delta-t pump on the secondary side is going to help. Actually it
will increase his problems. The fixed speed boiler pump is flowing more then
he needs. By lowering the secondary flow rate your just predicating more
of the nice hot water of the primary flow rate back to the boiler return increasing
the short cycling even more.
The ideal here is that the boiler through it's control logic could control
a variable speed pump matching the pumps flow rate to the modulation
rate of the burner. In this case here there are two fixes. The first a buffet tank,
the second, cap off the high end of the modulation rate and size a pump to
deliver the flow rate needed at your new top end. I'd also use a LLH instead
@ September 27, 2013 3:02 PM in First high efficiency boiler on my own...short cycling! Help!Since you over sized the boiler your unable to move the flow rate being produced by the primary/boiler pump out into the secondary side. The boiler pump supplied with the Alpine 105 is moving 7.7gpm on the primary side every time the pump runs no matter if its 60 out or zero out. You can never change that because it's a fixed speed pump. Your not pulling that 7.7gpm out of the primary into the secondary side. That's why your short cycling. What's not being pulled out to the primary is making its way back up the boiler return.
If you measure the temp between the boiler out and boiler in what's the delta-t? 5,4? The fix, a buffer tank. Lick your wounds and fight another day..
@ September 24, 2013 8:44 AM in Trade ShowAnyone in the Cedar Knolls NJ Area that would like to see our Host Dan Holohan he will be enlightening us with his "Marketing By Example" Seminar tomorrow at Universal Supply Group, 1 Jori Lane, Cedar Knolls, NJ 07927. The best part is it's free.
Trade Show beings a 10:00am. This is a hydronics trade show. So come on out that see the live fire boilers from Burnham, Peerless, Triangle, Crown and more. There is also a class beginning at 10:30 on Variable Speed Pumping hosted by our friend Dave Holdorf, Taco's East Coast Training Manger. Show starts at 10:00 and our host speaks at 12:45.
@ September 18, 2013 12:04 PM in Viessmann vitodens wb2b / 35 pumpingAs to how you think the Vitotrol is going to keep the room warmer? What are your thoughts about the effect that Vitotrol is going to have on your other zones. You still only have one heating circuit in the Viessmann world. A Vitotrol is meant to be used in an open floor plan where constant circulation is all you want. Zoning would come from having TRV's on the emitters.
@ September 14, 2013 4:02 PM in Available Condensing Boiler/Combi Systems in the MidwestA 222-F quick. They were released, meaning shipped to wholesalers this week. Better find a wholesaler in your market that has one because Viessmann US has sold out of them and you will not see any until late November. My understanding is the world wide demand for the 222-F has exceeded production capabilities at the present time. Not a bad problem to have. Allendorf produces roughly 2,000 condensing boilers a day. Makes you wonder what the size of the that demand is.
Not the end all. Still could do a B2HA-19 and a Viessmann Indirect.
@ August 30, 2013 1:57 PM in Need adviceTo find better contractors. Why would the boiler not be adequate for the job if it's sized and installed correctly? So your burning 52,125,000 btuh per month which equates to 1,737,500 btuh per day or 72,395 btu/hr based on that 375 gallons.. Thinking you need to redo that heat loss.
You have a high mass boiler. Lots and lots of water, thus the long off times. That's not a bad thing.
@ August 30, 2013 12:51 PM in Need adviceTo find an answer to your question. Many variables come into play with estimating fuel savings. Suggest you start by having a heat loss of the structure done. Compare that loss with the current btu/hr out put of the current boiler. How oversized is it. Just properly sizing the boiler alone with give you fuel savings. What that is, don't know. Need the heat loss.
From there its all about how efficiency is the system itself. The AFUE or boilers efficiency has nothing to do with the system only applies to the heating plant and that's not even a real number.
@ August 27, 2013 8:06 PM in Grunfos AlphaWas answered. You haven't brought enough information to the table other then your wise and disrespectful mouth. Why don't you take five minutes and sketch out a diagram and post it. While your at it let us know how many btu/hr you need to deliver to that rad and its size. Even though your a dick, you'll still get some help.
@ August 26, 2013 10:48 AM in centro therm pipingWhat plastic won't melt in a fire? Agree with Jack...
@ August 26, 2013 10:46 AM in Midco EC200 Power gas conversion burnerNever said they couldn't be installed and work rather well when installed and set up correctly. I said, dot your "i's" and cross your "t's" as the boiler mfgs are beginning to see inspectors failing them in our market and will no longer turn a blind eye to a leaking section with a gas conversion burner on it. It's just not Burnham either.
@ August 24, 2013 6:56 PM in The Hydronic Formula and it's limitationsI'm surprised we don't hear more from Danfoss and other mfgs of them like we do from Caleffi, Taco and others who promote the heck out of educational webinars. The Danfoss' and companies that offer them need to get the word out on how effective they can be. I don't think most contractors actually know how to deploy them in residential applications.
We see them more in apartment complexes and other commercial type constant circulation systems.
@ August 24, 2013 6:45 PM in Instantaneous vs IndirectDrink to your hearts content! No savings, but ya get 5 cents a can or bottle..
@ August 24, 2013 5:26 PM in The Hydronic Formula and it's limitationsAll the boiler mfgs should start rewriting their manuals because they all do it in those nice pump selection charts. If it's good for high fire, it's good for the rest of the modulation rate.
Your a Navien guy. How do you propose your getting the published 130,000 btu/hr in their lit for that manifold kit? Please educate us. That is a fixed speed pump on that unit correct?
This was a nice conversation of debate and sharing until you showed up with throwing stones. Why do you hide behind initials anyway?
@ August 24, 2013 5:14 PM in The Hydronic Formula and it's limitationsLikewise, until I get to that post above Gordy then civil discourse will have ended, well at least in that conversation.
Will you always maintain a fixed delta-t. Nope. Can't. No matter the type of pump it still rides on a pump curve and at some point you will be over pumping.
A emitter/zone is designed based on a heat loss calculation and the flow you design for to overcome that heat loss under design conditions. If that emitter can overcome the heat loss at the designed flow rate and delta-t, then it should always overcome the heat loss if I maintain my delta-t while varying my flow. I will never get to the .04 gpm point because the pump won't let me. I'm limited but it's still a better way then fixed speed or "p".
I have a hell of a better chance in my opinion of making the best comfortable system sticking with varying my flow based on a delta-t then I do by just flying at the seat of my pants as a "P" type pump does and forget a fixed speed pump we both know it is not in the conversation.
I like what he wrote, its an education. Here's the question, how do you apply it to pump selection? How do you apply it at all? What is its purpose other then for knowledge if there isn't a product to put this to use? I'm left with these questions.