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Joined on December 29, 2008

Last Post on April 1, 2014

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Vendor List

@ November 16, 2013 8:29 PM in Viessmann

Paul they are on the list. HDE where did you here any of what your posting?

Been thinking

@ November 1, 2013 6:39 PM in HydroMX

Those same things. Have someone asking us if we are interested in it and trying to see if anyone has used it.


@ November 1, 2013 8:03 AM in HydroMX

What concentration of this juice is water? What about dissimilar metals in a system? Gots a million questions on this sutff. Not getting many replies, really looking for someone who has experience using this potion.


@ October 31, 2013 11:52 AM in HydroMX

Anyone have any experience with this product? Thoughts?

You Need To Clean Up Your Grammar

@ October 29, 2013 12:51 PM in NG Combi Boiler versus indirect tank and boiler setup

Not very professional. Just some advice. What's a heater? I know of a boiler, furnace, tank type water heater, on demand water heater not sure what a heater is..Why would I need one, if I didn't have one?

The 222F

@ October 29, 2013 7:12 AM in Rumor has it

Model 19 is avail right now. Its the 35's that will not be avail until around Thanksgiving. I have the pricing and I'm in NJ so drop me an email. If your a homeowner I can hook you up with a Viessmann Partner contractor, if a contractor, I'll quote ya.

Putting the 19 in my house. My DHW demand is basically one shower at a time. Scrapping the zoning, slapping a Vitotrol 300A in place of the T-Stat, piping it direct and letting it fly. My heat loss is only 36K and I've changed out all my base board to hi cap so can start my curve for a 140 degree water temp at design.

Not Sensitive

@ October 27, 2013 4:54 PM in Need recommendation for manual reset high limit setting on Ultra boiler

Just tired of consumers in general, whom after choosing the cheapest installer come here to complain about their installation and/or contractor, ask for the solution or guidance, when they had the solution the entire time but did't want to pay for it.

Doubt the Boiler Mfg

@ October 27, 2013 2:28 PM in Need recommendation for manual reset high limit setting on Ultra boiler

Boiler is a heating plant, period, end of sentence!!! It is a piece of equipment that produces heat and has no responsibility as to the system side. If the boiler is operating it isn't broken and the mfg end of the chain is done. Since when did the boiler mfg size, design and recommend the radiant heat? It did not. No different then the cheap HDMI cables that come with that nice 60 plus inch flat in the living room, it works right? Does that manual tell you they are the cheap cables and to go out and buy some monsters because the pic will be 10 times better?

Its funny how our industry is scrutinized so deeply by the blind and internet educated DYI consumer. Bet your friends installer was the cheapest guy that bid the job.


@ October 27, 2013 11:31 AM in outdoor reset and thermostat setback

Are you setting back the thermostat or the heating circuit via the boiler. What is the nighttime setback in the boiler control and for what time period. The control can be programmed for a heating schedule just like a thermostat. Sounds like your setting back a room t-stat and not the boiler. If you are how does the boiler know you set back? It doesn't so it doesn't know to shift the curve itself.

Is this a Vitodens 200? Vitola 200?

Your Post Was Concerning

@ October 27, 2013 11:16 AM in Need recommendation for manual reset high limit setting on Ultra boiler

A high limit not all the other items of concern you just posted. A piping diagram in a manual is conceptual. If I installed a low loss header instead of 2 closely spaced tee's and didn't use a Spirovent or Air Scoop would I be wrong? Nope, If my expansion tank and feed are piped on the primary side below the boiler pump am I wrong? Nope.

If I put my secondary pump on the return and my zone valves on the supply am I wrong? Nope. In other words the manual is not a bible to installation, its merely a map that can be adjusted, providing you still maintain proper piping practice.

If I decided I didn't want to use that boiler/primary pump that came with the boiler am I wrong? Nope. My point is a piping diagram is conceptual and can deviated from providing you still maintain proper piping principals. I don't need a high limit for my radiant under all conditions and honestly one is rarely if every used. Why? Proper piping, control and installation.

Room Setpoint

@ October 26, 2013 10:48 AM in Viessmann & Siggy differ on efficiency at high return temp?

That's the setpoint the boiler is using to calculate the curve. You could graph the months of the heating season with daily daytime and nightime temps and come up with your operating percentages. Might not be 100% accurate but will give you a idea of where you'd be running most of the heating season.

Missed The Need?

@ October 26, 2013 10:42 AM in Need recommendation for manual reset high limit setting on Ultra boiler

Don't see where that is an installation error. You stated the contractor missed the need. Nothing is missed. I'm going to assume your friend has the heat loss and radiant design right? Your dealing with a low temp and high temp radiant so they both have mixing valves correct? The boiler has the ability to cap off the highest supply temp correct? The boiler has an adjustable high limit correct? So where's the need?

I'm only stating these because your up here putting the blame on the contractor, ever think there was a reason why? The piping schematics in the manual are CONCEPTUAL!


@ October 22, 2013 12:14 PM in Viessmann & Siggy differ on efficiency at high return temp?

Navien does not capture flue gas condensation to reclaim the loss latent heat. While it may condense it still doesn't reclaim lost btu/hr through the venting system. It also does not come ODR unless the installer purchases it separately. Navien, because it has a CAFUE vs an AFUE rating isn't held to the new Sept 2012 standard. That's the story to be told when competing against it. Your correct because he only posted one part of the Viessmann chart h left out the heating curve chart which is attached.


@ October 22, 2013 11:53 AM in Viessmann & Siggy differ on efficiency at high return temp?

Lamda Pro Combustion

@ October 22, 2013 11:44 AM in Viessmann & Siggy differ on efficiency at high return temp?

I'll answer your question with a question? What controls the dew point? If I can control the dew point I can condense pretty much at all times, even above that magical 127-130 degree water temp line.

Maybe this will help you understand. Its a pretty good little article.

I Haven't Read This Much BS

@ October 17, 2013 6:12 PM in Need help to select between System 2000 EK1 and Burnham MPO-IQ 115

In a long time. Great marketing hype can't displace physic friends. All boilers mfg after Sept 2012 have thermal purge built into them. ITS THE LAW. Boiler will not fire until it sees less then 140 degree water or 2 minutes!!!!!! Hello, PRE_PURGE!!!!!!!!

Secondly, for every 3 degrees you can run a heating system with less then 180 degree water you save 1% of fuel, period, fact!

Low Mass (System 2000) High Mass (MPO) which one must fire more cycles?

Lastly, a boiler is no more then a heating plant. It makes energy period, that's its job. What's more important :

a. How You Make Energy

b. How You Use That Energy

c. Combination of Both

Looking at efficiency based on the boiler is like looking at MPG on car, both are dependent on lots of variables to get the best out of them.

I'll go for the high mass boiler, that cycles less and I can do a lot more with from an efficiency standpoint.

I'm done ranting now. This type of conversation is getting real old, like 15 years old when the Viessmann Vitola was the only true 3-pass around. Nobody got it then either except for few..

I Don't Buy That

@ October 15, 2013 7:22 PM in Need help to select between System 2000 EK1 and Burnham MPO-IQ 115

The System 2000 will save more fuel then the Burnham MPO. Both, no matter how you look at it, fire at a fixed rate, I can pre and post purge my pumps on the Bunrham no different then that EK. That Burnham will take 110 degree return water temp so with the cost of a simple plug in ODR card I can make it more efficient then that System 2000 at a heck of a lesser price.

I'd even go to the extent that one could take a Crown TWZ, standard pin boiler, add a Taco SR501-OR and make it just as or more efficient then that system 2000.

The equipment isn't a magic wand to fuel savings the installation is.

What Software Is That

@ October 14, 2013 11:23 AM in new mod/con w/indirect question mockup

Nice software. What is it and where can I find it. Might want to keep this in your pocket in case you need it. See the Alpine article. I wouldn't be zoning out rather I'd be adding thermostatic valves, use an Alpha, run constant circulation and call it a day.

Not the 222F-19

@ October 13, 2013 6:43 PM in Different take on tankless vs buffered

Has a min of 12 Input..You can cap off the high end of the modulation rate for heating independent of DHW. You also won't have to pri/sec pipe it either. Set the pump so the boiler works on off a 40 Rise and your boiler flow rate is only 3.1gpm.

Your Hydraulically Separated

@ October 13, 2013 11:02 AM in Primary secondary ?

The systems pumps have no influence on the primary pumps! The expansion tank should be piped on the primary/boiler side before the boilers circ so you would be pumping away!

You can place your system pumps where ever you want!

All This Time

@ October 8, 2013 1:17 PM in TT110 Trimax control question

Talking about 2 closely spaced tees equates to more cost and effort then just using a low loss header which will also act as you air/dirt elimination. Let the on board pump do its job and do what ever you want on the secondary side.

First of All

@ October 5, 2013 7:05 PM in Different take on tankless vs buffered

You never add btu/hr for domestic hot water unless the DHW load itself is larger then the heat loss of the home. For some condensing boilers out their such as Viessmann, Burnham Alpine and I believe the Loch. You can cap off the high end of the modulation rate for heating independent of DHW.

The main cause of condensing boiler short cycling is not the max btu/hr the boiler can put out. The boiler will never give it until its needed. The problem is the low end and the size of the boiler pump that creates short cycling. There is no manufacture on earth that will warranty for a short cycling boiler. If a part failed it wasn't because it was defective but rather beat the heck out of. ie, improper installation.

I'd take a look at this. Wouldn't need to be piped pri/sec and blows away a tankless and in my opinion a boiler/indirect option especially for such a small heating load and domestic load.
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