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Chris

Chris

Joined on December 29, 2008

Last Post on April 20, 2014

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Differential

@ April 11, 2011 10:05 PM in ZC ZR and beyond on TACO SR506 exp for primary pump

What differential setting do you have set in the PC-700?

I Feel Your Frustration

@ April 11, 2011 9:03 PM in On the Vitodens 200-W, WB2B

Let me poke some more..Stay patient my friend...I was reading the UK version of the installation and service manual for the boiler.
http://www.viessmann.co.uk/etc/medialib/internet_uk/attachments/products/vitodens_200-w_sept.Par.51309.File.File.tmp/Service%20%2019%20to%2035%20kW.pdf
It's states the same as the american version for the ionization current. But also no current measurements or procedure for testing.

I think though I'm beginning to understand what to look for.  See page 26 of the TDM attached. Measurement of the current doesn't seem necessary. The lack of current or too much current seems to point to gas valve, inducer motor or a possible gas issue more likely with LP. Just my take..I will continue the dig though.

What Concerns Me

@ April 11, 2011 8:06 PM in On top radiant heat

Is that I heard nothing of a heat loss and radiant design. Your post states multiple different floor surfaces all having different r-values especially that carpet and pad. Suggest before you even lay a strip you consult with a radiant pro in your area. If your budget tight and trying to save on labor and material cost but plan on hiring a pro for the mechanical room end, it would be in your best interest to consult with one now.. That's the best advice any of us can give you in my opinion.

Centrotherm Update

@ April 11, 2011 7:47 PM in On the Vitodens 200-W, WB2B

Brian,


I was told today that testing of the InnoFlue is being conducted on Vitodens for Viessmann Canada's approval. Basically dotting the i's and crossing the t's. We were given the go ahead last year from Viessmann US but my understanding from today is that Canada wanted to put it to the test specifically on the boiler even though it already has the ULC-S636 rating and meets the specifications as directed by the new vent sheet.

Kuddo's to them for stepping up to the plate with testing it specifically on their boiler and making the installation easier for their Partners even though they may loose some vent sales.

Good Question

@ April 11, 2011 7:45 PM in On the Vitodens 200-W, WB2B

That's a great question. You received the same e-mail as me. As of right now there is no viable reading so I would say these error codes would require the installer to have to call the tech line for verification when testing is required for ionization current. I wish I could give you a better anwser. As of right now I would stick with the phone call.

Page 24

@ April 11, 2011 7:38 PM in ZC ZR and beyond on TACO SR506 exp for primary pump

Page 24 of this should set you straight.

http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/100-9.0.pdf

That Would Be

@ April 11, 2011 4:02 PM in On the Vitodens 200-W, WB2B

My take Tim. I can say we have been through two heating seasons with the new version and I have yet to come across the F4 error code. I do know that as the rod wears the boiler does keep adjusting. I think that is what the error code is for. It prompts you to check it. Its not a costly replacement either. Two screws and 2 minutes to replace.

InnoFlue

@ April 11, 2011 12:44 PM in On the Vitodens 200-W, WB2B

Brian,

I've been using it for about year now. My customers love it and price point makes it competative with the competition that is venting PVC. I'm waiting on some clarification from Viessmann concerning the product. I was turned on to this by Viessmann RI last year but since the departure of the previous general manager Canda has taken a difference in stance on its use on Vitodens.

I do not feel nor believe it has anything to do with the product since it has the same rating as the M&G brand Viessmann is selling. Rather its about sales dollars.

I also have to bely my last post concerning ionization. The information I was given was for Vitodens 100 not 200. To date there is no testing parameters for the F4 code "check ionization current" for the Vitodens 200.

I e-mailed you

@ April 11, 2011 8:52 AM in On the Vitodens 200-W, WB2B

This anwser this morning....

It's asking to check the burners flame(ionization) signal. You will need a multi-meter that can test for microamps. (not milliamps) Also,a flame needs to be present for you to read microamps,so if the burner is not establishing a flame then there would be no microamps to read.

What you would do is remove the cable from the flame rod,set your multi-meter to microamps,connect one end of the meter to the cable and the other end to the flame rod. Reset the burner to get the burner to try to fire,and if a flame is established,read the microamps. The need to see at least 5 microamps to keep the burner from locking out. Average flame signal reading would be 15-25 microamps.

More Info Please

@ April 10, 2011 4:53 PM in Best Energy-Efficient Gas Boiler / Water Heater setup for Cold Climate (Massachusetts)

What is the heat loss of these apartments? What is the domestic need of each apartment? Need the info to provide the best advice.

If I'm designing from scratch then a condensing boiler with panel rads seems like the best way to go. I'd oversize the rads using the correction factors to get the boilers condensing the entire heating season. As for 96%, I would be looking at the Vitodens 200 or the Lochinvar. They are the only 2 boilers that have the listing, have presence in the filed and a trac record of a fine piece of equipment. The Challenger having a  listed 96% AFUe still has no AHRI rating and is nothing more then a kick space heater on steriods with no US installation presence as of yet. Triangle doesn't even make it. They use another maufacture for it. It's there answer to the tankless companies promoting combi units. It's funny how a company that promotes stainless as the way to go now toughts what they have been against just for sales growth.
It was brought here to contend for the apartment project complexes so they have a viable means of getting the job because there stainless boiler with the indirect while a nice piece of equip just wasn't at the price point those projects wanted.

A little Heavy

@ April 10, 2011 3:15 PM in Gas boiler choice

I think that loss is a little heavy but we will use it for this purpose to hopefully educate you.
Load is 65K so that means 6.5gpm - I'll split that in half for the zones. I don't know the load of each zone so this is the only way I can explain it. Each zone is 3.25 gpm. We will use the 3gpm rating for baseboard. You have 122 ft. We will split that in half also..61' per zone.

Here is the board capable output based on the 3gpm flow rate using 180 degree water. 585 per foot x 61 = 35,685. x 2  (for both zones) = 71,370. So if your heat loss is correct which I believe is off by 20,000 plus, then your choice of a cast may be the best way.

I believe your loss is between 40 and 45K if not less. Which makes each zones flow rate around 2gpm. Using 160 degree water that board would put out 442 btu's a sqft.


If I take the high 45K divided by 2 each zones loss is 22,550.
61 ft x 442 = 26,962 btu's x 2 = 53,924. Now a condensing boiler makes sense. I only need this water temp and btu's output on the coldest day of the year. Why make it everyday all day.


I would suggest you get more estimates and find someone that knows the science of hydronics and is not just a wrench turner. There are other considerations we look for. Furniture lay out and maybe even a long term plan for you. Put the condensing boiler in today and then slowly change the baseboard out to a high capacity board that puts out more btu's will less water temp using the same footprint the exisiting board is in.

Most contractors and all consumers think the heating plant is what dictates efficiency but I feel system efficiency plays more of a role in fuel savings. I can tell you I have been part of hunderds of Viessmann Vitodens 100 installs with baseboard and when designed and installed correctly you can easily save between 35-50% in fuel consumption. I'm sure the guys here that install other mfg products that design and do what they are suppose to be doing can say the same.
I would be calling the mfg of the equip you choose and ask them for contractor references. Interview them like you were offering a job. It's your money, your investment and your home. A pro will give you options. One could be the cast iron option but you should atleast be given the choice.

Have You Considered

@ April 10, 2011 1:39 PM in Gas boiler choice

A condensing boiler instead? What is the heat loss of the home and what type of heat emitters do you have. Does the local utility offer rebates for the installation of 90% plus gas equipment? The cost difference between a draft induced boiler compared to the cost of a condensing gas boiler is not miles apart. If you haven't looked at them your leaving a viable option on the floor..

I'm not a big fan of Weil. Have seen way too many issues and their support or lack of was a reason we dumped the line 4 years ago. As always, the piece of equipment you choose will only operate to its capability based on the installation. Your primary concern should be the installer.

Are They Just

@ April 10, 2011 12:22 PM in Triangle Tube heat exchanger

Bringing over the attached which was released last yr across the pond..

Hold Off

@ April 10, 2011 8:57 AM in Gas boiler choice

If this is not an emergency you may want to hold off a bit. The SCG is going away. It will be replaced with a newer version that contains the Burnham IQ Control platform that is now used in the Series 3, ES2 and MPO. With changes coming in 2012, boiler mfg's will begin bringing out their anwsers to the new regulations regarding all boilers must have some means of outdoor compensation. With the new control platform the boiler will give you outdoor reset and domestic priority for your indirect. Just food for thought...

Taco Zone Sentry

@ April 10, 2011 8:50 AM in Zone valves

Have been using the Taco Zone Sentry. It's a ball valve style body with a pop-top type head. Much better flow through it then a traditional Honeywell V8043E1020. It carries a 3yr warranty too.

http://www.taco-hvac.com/en/products/Zone%20Sentry%3Csup%3E%26reg%3B%3C/sup%3E%20Zone%20Valve/products.html?current_category=396

F4

@ April 9, 2011 7:16 PM in On the Vitodens 200-W, WB2B

Bob,

I think Tim is trying to put in his manual what the F4 code states. They say to measure the ionization current but they don't give any info on what that current should be nor based on what parameters. If you were trouble shooting that code you wouldn't be able to perform the test based on the information given in the Viessmann Service Manual in the field without having to call the tech line. Something as easy as taking a reading shouldn't have to bog the service guy down by having to make a phone call.

Zone Sentry

@ April 9, 2011 6:10 PM in Taco zone valves

The Zone Sentry heads pop on the valve bodies. This was the first version of a Pop-Top for them when they bought out another company. I've seen plenty of issues with these old style heads. Suggest you take a look at the Zone Sentry heads for the retrofit change.

Controls

@ April 9, 2011 6:07 PM in Viessmann Atola AR145

There are only 2 Parts currently available for the MC. The Timer and the Cube. Nothing else. They do though, make a retrofit kit to enable you to install the new Vitotronic control packages to boilers with old MC's.

The Viessmann Way

@ April 9, 2011 6:01 PM in On the Vitodens 200-W, WB2B

That's the Viessmann way. They are very protective. Ian Lindsey is running Viessmann US until a replacement for Rich is found.

Hopefully I can get an anwser for you and for me. Like I said, I haven't had a situation where I had to perform that procedure so never looked for it. In the next week or so they are also giving another vent alternative to the current venting material. They are basically taking the polyprop currently used in the coaxial and offering that as another venting method. I have a couple of issues with it which I have passed on waiting for an answser. Has nothing to do with the vent method or the material but the lack of footage...Only offering it in 1.6 and 3.6ft...I don't like the idea of all the joints. Generally in the field if we have to 2 pipe its for a reason and only being offered 3.6ft as a max doesn't do me any good.

Dbl Post Sorry

@ April 9, 2011 1:10 PM in On the Vitodens 200-W, WB2B

Ionization Current

@ April 9, 2011 1:10 PM in On the Vitodens 200-W, WB2B

Tim,

Are you looking for the ionization current? I also don't have that anywhere in anyting that I have. I'm assuming your looking for the measurement as it pertains to fault code F4 "No Flame Signal."

I sent an e-mail off. Haven't had to perform that measurement so never looked for it.

IQ Card

@ April 7, 2011 9:22 PM in Burnham Plug and play

The outdoor reset card has priority built into it. Terminals 3 & 4 on the card. You use ZC ZR in the IQ control to power the domesitc pump. The installation manual gives clear directions as well as the wiring. Suggest you take a few minutes to review it and then pass it on to the electrician..
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