Heating Help

I did this same thing...

@ December 15, 2008 2:19 PM in baseboard fin for emitters for condensing boiler

about 18 months ago. Two of three apartments in a single building were heated by an oversized W/M cast iron oil-fired boiler that was 30 years old. There was also a 15 year old 50 gallon gas HWH...yes, gas and oil in the same room! Replaced it with two Munchkin Contender T-80s and had TT Smart 30 gallon indirects with each. The six or eight gallons of boiler water in the outside tank is perfect for avoiding short cycles for HW. The bottom floor has 35kbtuh heatloss, and the top floor has 45kbtuh, so the sizing was for hot water...but the modulation covers that anyway. The baseboard is oversized in nearly every room, and in the two rooms it is close it's still comfortable. The boilers run at 170 (max setting) for a short time and then modulate to match the load...in the words of Billy Ocean many years ago it's "simply awesome." Hope this helps, PJO

How old is the feed...

@ December 15, 2008 2:07 PM in Lead in Domestic Hot Water -- Hot Water Heater?

to the house? If it's from the late 30's to mid 40's it could be lead. How do I know? I had a duplex in NE Philly that was built around that time...had the water and sewer lines replaced and when they pulled out the old water feed - whoa! It was pure lead... Take Care, PJO

John,

@ July 28, 2008 2:58 PM in Above Ground Oil Tank Leak

I do have professionals involved. Why are the valves a "very bad practice..."? The way the tanks are set-up, the fill lines are not the same length...so thus the need for valves to get both tanks full. I isolate one tank and then the other...when the filling is done all valves are opened again. Maybe you are thinking that the wrong valves would be closed? What would you suggest I do with the oil in the leaking tank? Others have said here it should be pumped to another tank...do you have another suggestion? Thanks, PJO

Thanks Todd...

@ July 25, 2008 3:06 PM in Above Ground Oil Tank Leak

I have valves on the fill and vent side of each tank, so that should do it...I am putting a basin under it just in case though ;-) PJO

Thanks!

@ July 25, 2008 9:25 AM in Above Ground Oil Tank Leak

That's what I was looking for. As stated earlier, I am catching the slow drip with a basin and putting it into the other tank...nothing is leaking anywhere else to cause any environmental damage. I did have a very small stain on my concrete below the tank when the adsorbent cloth (which I kept under the tanks) let a little through. The wife thought she smelled something so I checked it out... The work is supposed to get done later today, but I'll see if I can get a Magnapatch just in case. Thanks guys. PJO

I plan on replacing it...

@ July 24, 2008 12:35 PM in Above Ground Oil Tank Leak

I'm talking about what to do in the meanwhile (I should have stated that better at the start). Please remember it is above-ground...most regs. deal with UST. I certainly am not going to have a patched tank in my basement for long. Thanks for the help so far gents. Take Care, PJO

Looks like a very small rust hole...

@ July 24, 2008 11:35 AM in Above Ground Oil Tank Leak

Wallies, In my basement I have twin tanks that are 10 years old. The one in the back (of course) has a very small leak in the bottom...just noticed it after the last delivery. It is about one gallon per day which I am catching w/ a basin and putting into the other tank (edit from here) until I can get the permamnent solution done. 1) Is there anything that can patch this somehow? I'm thinking some sort of "Dresser Coupling" style of set-up...maybe with a tiny lolly column or something? 2) How about a patch weld? Can this be done while the tank is full? 3) Of course, I can pump the 260 gallons back outside, remove the tank, clean what's left of the floor, get a new tank, etc. I am also worried about the other one. Advice? Thanks, PJO

Oh Boy...

@ May 12, 2008 1:16 PM in Best Live Concert You Ever Saw

Memories... First concert was a doozy; Yes, Peter Frampton and Gary Wright at JFK stadium in Philly, 1976. Just as "Frampton Comes Alive!" was peaking. He was great, and Yes was incredible...saw them three more times indoors. Probably my vote for overall best - especially outside. Saw Lynard Skynard (sp?) a year later at the same site, not long before their accident...the J Geils Band kicked a**, but Frampton was whacked out that day, and took 20 years to recover :-( Eagles in '77 when Joe Walsh joined them. Also in '77 for $10.00 was Foreigner, Rick Derringer and the Little River Band. Derringer blew the house down...I also saw him at the first concert ever in Northern Maine. It was Blue Oyster Cult as the headliner and a local band as well. I caught one of Derringer's drummer's sticks...it was cracked but still usable. I was a huge Aerosmith fan back in the day. Saw them twice when Steve T was drinking real haevy...he skipped a lot of lines due to the JD, but they rocked so loud you hardly heard him anyway :-) I was there in Philly when the firecracker blew on stage and ended the show early...couldn't blame Joe Perry for giving the crowd the finger... Saw U2 at the second to last show at JFK in about '92 or so. There was a guy at the back of the stage most of the show w/ a guitar hanging on him...couldn't see his face. Bono had his arm in a sling, and near the end of the show this guy finally comes under the lights - the Boss! They rocked for about 30 minutes. He was there because Little Stevie's band was on the ticket. Also saw Bruce and the E Street band in 2004, and Bruce solo in '05...big difference but still awesome. John Mellencamp and Bowie (Serious Moonlight Tour) in the mid-80's...both great entertainers w/ differing shows. Also saw three of the best piano/keyboard rocksters of the day the same summer: Elton John, Billy Joel and Steve Winwood in '85 I think - too much fun to remember ;-) At the Mann Center in Philly: Two Great Shows ten years apart... Neil Young w/ Crazy Horse BB King, Doctor John and Robert Cray A lot of others...from Punk to Heavy Metal to Electric/Dance (like the Thompson Twins & OMD). Thanks for the memories! Take Care, PJO

Looks like a...

@ May 9, 2008 4:43 PM in And He Waves His Magic Wand.........hb

Radiantec-type special...except the red 3/4" (?) pex is a little different. Was that a gas line "plugged" into a steel fitting? Like they are saying about the Flyers Danny Briere: Awesome Save... Take Care, PJO

Here's something \"Real World\"...

@ April 30, 2008 3:30 PM in your thoughts part 2

I replaced an oversized non-condenser with two mod-cons...oil to gas and split the two apartments. The previous boiler had heated both apartments. I did no increase in energy efficiency to the structure as far as insulation/etc. besides the heating plant replacements(s). I also ripped out the 50 gallon gas HWH and put in a 30 gallon TT Smart indirect for each apartment. The usage of oil was between 1,000 and 1,200 gallons per year for both apartments. At today's prices that would have been about $3,500.00 or about $300.00 per month for heat and hot water for both apartments. The one apartment is mostly unoccupied (we use it in the summer mostly), and the gas bill is $25-30 per month through the winter. The other apartment has a small child and the parents work first/second shift so it is occupied nealry all the time. Their gas bill - both heat and hot water - is $90-120 per month through the winter. Glad I did it last summer - would have paid dearly for heating oil this past season ;-)

Amen... (NM)

@ January 25, 2008 12:34 PM in A good cause (Dan H.)

Looks like it worked!

@ August 24, 2007 1:26 PM in Contender MC-80 - \"FLU\" Issues

Thanks Ted...both you and the tech support said the same thing - but you were first ;-) Why don't they put that information in the manual? Take Care, PJO

Jumpered the switch...

@ August 23, 2007 6:40 PM in Contender MC-80 - \"FLU\" Issues

and the new units - both of them - still have the same fault. They think the flue is blocked, but it's fine. There's about 65' equivalent piping length, so that's okay (less than 85" total). The motor and fan hesitate for a few seconds on start-up...what the heck is wrong? HTP is closed for the evening, and the tech is a little miffed ;-) Please help. Thanks, PJO

Will do...

@ August 20, 2007 12:31 PM in a friend of mine needs a favor

That's the motto from my Air Force Squadron many moons ago...Ruthe, it's the least we as free citizens should do and thanks for bringing up this topic. About the deceased, I have a quote on my office wall, which pictures Army Rangers carrying a flag-draped casket: "It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather, we should thank God that such men lived." - General George S. Patton, Jr. While the words may be a bit forceful - as Patton was himself - they ring true. Take Care, PJO

Ditto...

@ August 17, 2007 11:31 AM in Let's help Jamie Pompetti

On both counts! ;-) Take Care, PJO

I am doing something similar...

@ August 15, 2007 2:37 PM in Comparing Mod/Con propane to oil boiler

Am in the latter stages of a replacement project...I had mentioned it on The Wall a couple of months ago. Old system: 30 year old oil-fired W/M 4 section boiler. Lowest feed I could do w/o hurting it too much was 0.95 gph. The tankless coil had rotted away 15 years ago and a 50 gallon gas HWH was there in it's place. This fed two of three apartments (third was electric baseboard). The system was working okay for an older unit that didn't have much TLC, but as we were renovating 2/3 of the building it was time to fix the heat/HW situation as well. It burned between 1,600 gallons last year, and 1,850 in the prior year (1.10 nozzle and boiler was very dirty when we bought the place). The same tenants lived there both years. Initially, I was going to simply replace the boiler with a Crown Freeport CT 3 section w/ 0.75 gph nozzle, and the output was a perfect match for the heatloss calc of 85,000 btuh (80k IBR rating, but I insulated everything I could - including all the baseboard piping). Coupled with a TT Smart 50 indirect, it would have been ideal w/ the extra boiler water through the indirect as a buffer...except we were still paying the heat and hot water. For about 15% additional cost, I decided to install two MC-80 Contenders w/ 30 gallon Smart Indirects. I was going to go w/a MC-50 for the smaller apartment (35kbtuh), but the two units modulate down to 18k and 19k...so it didn't matter much except for HW demand. I wanted to do a simple piping layout similar to what's described in the next paragraph, but the contractor was worried about voiding the warranties...so we followed the HTP pipe design exactly. I had done a Primary/Secondary set-up w/ a M-80 at my friend's house last year...the Munchie was right in the primary loop w/a Smart30, and the two heating zones (one basbeboard and one radiant) where the secondary loops. It had three pumps total, and the call for HW simply ran the primary pump - works like a champ! The job will be finished this week, and not only will I have a decent comparison, I won't be paying the gas bill for one apartment. We are using the bigger one in the summer, and will rent it through the winter, so it will have a heat demand probably similar to the prior tenants...although when the heat is free it's usually wasted more ;-) I will be comparing a 30 year old oil boiler - 76% AFUE or so on last check - to a couple of new Contenders, so it won't be totally fair. Plus, the price of oil in that area - NJ shore - is about $0.20 per gallon higher then elsewhere, and we have installed new outside doors and storm doors (maybe 5% change in heatloss). My guess is that the cost will be slightly less for the gas, but mostly due to the above factors. When the project is done I will post it here for all to see and comment. It is the best of the three systems I have specified and designed IMHO. I am also going to track the usage costs as much as I can for one year. Take care, PJO

What about this scenario?

@ June 29, 2007 5:23 PM in Bad news for condensing purists...(ME)

I had to choose between propane and oil nine years ago. Given the 40% or so higher BTU's in oil and having to park a gray submarine outside that the propane supplier owned (or I part w/ $$$) I chose oil. I also now burn B20, so that's a plus...and it works great with only a 5% cost increase. I have a mix of radiant and baseboard - almost 50/50 - and I do my own version of ODR down to 140F supply (w/ about 125F or so return when it's getting warm). I think dollar for dollar I am close to propane, but am losing some in efficiency (made up by oil vs. propane). I also think the slightly lower condensing temp of oil-fired vs. gasses (125F or so to 135F as per the article) helps a bit for protection of the boiler... As far as setback, I've opined before about my own situation...but here goes: I take very good advantage of passive solar, and because I tweak the boiler temp 2-3 times a day very often I get away with a nice setback routine...it isn't perfect and certainly not for everyone. My boiler rarely runs through the middle of the day most of the heating season...because of solar AND I set back the temps. The morning routine is when the boiler matches well; except for the warmest shoulder season, it typically runs for 30 minutes or more each cycle as the baseboard and radiant are both calling...radiant first and I shower and do the morning dishes and laundry many days from 5:15 to 6:00. I like it a little cooler, but by the time management gets up (7:15 or so) the house is warm enough for her ;-) When the baseboard calls about an hour after the radiant, the boiler cruises along at a very slow increase as all six zones are heating up. By 8:00 the house is toasty and the setback comes in by 9:00 as everyone leaves. It slowly cools for another hour or two - but if it's a sunny day it warms up again. By 2:30 p.m. or so it has "caught up" and often passed the 70F mark by itself most days with the passive solar and thermal mass...but if I had constant circ/temp settings the boiler would cycle, no? And it may be a little warmer because the radiation is still putting out some heat? This is whether I had a mod/con or conventional WITH the above control strategy...and with five circs the electrical savings is pretty substantial over the course of a year. I wish I would have done a couple more zone valves instead... At night during the shoulder seasons is when I am behind compared to the article. The boiler tends to cycle too much, despite a decent amount of volume (about 45 gallons total I believe). I setback the entire house between 3 and 6 degrees F, and the lower difference vs. outside is small but has to make a difference. When the house is warming up in the morning the outside air is also warming up some vs. a few hours ealrier as the sun comes up. To imporve the boiler cycles here, maybe I should hook up another boiler control in series w/ the one on there now like Hot Rod mentioned once to get a 25-30F differential...I'll add it to the "Honey-Do" list :-) I think everyone agrees that near design conditions almost any boiler is pretty efficient IF it is sized right and the radiation is correct...pretty big "if" ;-) The question is during the shoulder seasons - but despite not having the set-up praised in this thread I still think with my tweaking and no chance of natural gas (cheaper than propane by about 15% here last time I looked) I'm doing pretty good. Can anybody add advice to help me more? I would but on ODR, but I don't think it would do much more than I do myself. I am doing a complete change of hydronic heating souces/control in a building at the NJ shore with a contractor. It will be interesting and I mentioned it about nine months ago. We'll be ripping out an old W/M 4-section oil boiler, and installing two small Mod/Cons (there's natural gas there), and it's nearly all basboard heat. I'll give an update soon. Thanks, PJO

Hope these help...

@ June 13, 2007 4:59 PM in Solar assistance please (GrandPAH)

NJ Stuff: they are pretty good... http://www.njcep.com/html/2_incent.html More stuff: this is finanical mostly - surrounding states http://www.trfund.com/index.html Federal: http://www.seia.org/getpdf.php?iid=21 I had something on Pa but can't find it. I buy wind energy from PECO (Phila Electric) for an additional $20.00/month and it supplies about 80% of my electric bill. I was going to get a 5kW set of PV panels, but the incentive program though the Energy Co-op went under (the fed one is still there I think)...I would have spent $19k for a $42k system, and it would have been net metered. I believe they would have paid me about 3/4 the rate for buying back my excess. Take care, PJO

Treatment Side...

@ May 10, 2007 11:35 AM in Questions for you engineering type guys

Steve, I have some experience w/ RO's and the like - in fact I am in charge of three such systems in my current job. I agree with the control for steam. One system here's uses a ball valve and it's "jumpy" (keeps throttling up and down) on the 1.5" feed line for a 180F water system. Another system uses a valve similar to what they describe and it stays nice and comfy within 2F most of the time...until somebody decides to fiddle with it! ;-) Send me an e-mail, and maybe I can help. Take Care, PJO

Past the Goal...

@ April 27, 2007 10:58 AM in I hope y'all don't mind (WALLIE RALLY! - D.H.)

I got into the site and it's over the top ($1,170 after my little addition)! Go Dianna!!! Take Care, PJO

Stay Strong and Focused

@ April 27, 2007 10:50 AM in Prayers Needed

Mike, Hang in there, and do not sway from your beliefs...and keep in touch with this great group of guys that want to help. This time will pass, but your memories will last... Take Care, PJO

How About Biodiesel?

@ April 16, 2007 11:48 AM in GREEN (Dan H.)

biodieselsolutions.com greasecar.com wnbiodiesel.com etc. Take Care, PJO