Heating Help

Piping question

@ February 14, 2011 12:04 PM in Piping question

Is this ok?
The boiler return tapping is on the bottom right of boiler. I have no space to run the return off to the right side. The only way I can clear the swing-out door and burner is to drop the return under the burner and come straight out about 2 feet, then up. (Boiler is about 8 inches above floor on pad)
Is it ok for the return to drop below the boiler by about 3 inches? This would be the lowest point in the system. (hot watersystem)Thanks

Mark

@ December 4, 2010 10:07 PM in Bypass with thermostatic valve?

Mark,
Could you point me towards a 2 way thermostatic valve with remote bulb sensor?
Make and model number would be great. The only thing I can find are the 3-way mixing type.  Thanks

how is this drawing?

@ December 4, 2010 9:16 PM in Bypass with thermostatic valve?

I realize that this is a very simple piping setup but I just want to make sure the there are no problems.
This will be a system bypass, probably with a 140 deg. ESBE mixing valve on the return/bypass connection.
Is it ok for the pump to be so close to the 90 right before it?
Is it ok for the bypass and then the first branch circuit to be so close (downstream) from the pump?
Thanks

more...

@ December 3, 2010 1:36 PM in Bypass with thermostatic valve?

I don’t really understand the need for a 3-way valve. It seems like a standard valve (like a TRV for example) placed inline in the bypass would work without complicating the flow of the return piping/adding pressure drop, etc…
 I was thinking of just putting a 1 ¼ TRV in a system bypass line and adjusting it so the room temperature in the boiler room closes the bypass at approximately the time when the return temps are greater than 140.  It would be much easier if the valve could sense the return temp directly though.

Mike

@ December 2, 2010 9:27 PM in Bypass with thermostatic valve?

Mike..thats what I was thinking, you posted while I was typing.

more questions

@ December 2, 2010 9:21 PM in Bypass with thermostatic valve?

Thank you very much for the reply. I have more questions. Sorry if this is dumb but….
The thing I don’t understand about P/S is…. on a secondary with no zones (i.e. 1 big zone)and no TRV’s on the radiators, there will be no real variation on what the secondary is pulling from the primary right. So essentially a certain fixed amount of flow will be pulled to the secondary and a certain amount will bypass the tee’s and continue to circulate through the primary. This doesn’t seem to be that different from a fixed ’system bypass’.

If you want precise control of the boiler water temp to get it to 140 deg. as fast as possible, you could then add an additional aquastat that senses boiler temp in the primary loop and holds the secondary pump off until the boiler reaches 140 deg.

But, assuming approx. 12 gal of water in the primary and 90 gal in the secondary(old cast iron rads.), when the secondary kicks on, wouldn’t it overwhelm the primary with cooler water anyway?

Or an even better setup would be to use a variable speed delta T pump like the Taco 008-VDTF6 in the primary loop.

If I were going to use a variable speed delta T pump on a system without zones would I even need P/S piping? What would be wrong with just standard piping, no bypass or P/S, and a variable speed delta T pump.

Question simplified......

@ December 2, 2010 6:00 PM in Bypass with thermostatic valve?

I found the original post that  mentions the thermostatic valve in the bypass....
"On residential size jobs, I do this by installing a full-size bypass and equipping it with a thermostatic valve that has a remote bulb and capillary tube. The bulb goes in a well on the return pipe, right at the boiler. When cold-starting, most of the flow goes through the bypass. As the system warms up, the thermostatic valve starts closing and will modulate to the return temperature you set. Needs only one pump. Failure mode will be valve open, so boiler is always protected. In residential radiant systems,"

I just need a source for a thermostatic valve and remote bulb sensor that will work. Preferably 1 1/4"
Thanks


 "

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@ December 1, 2010 1:59 PM in Bypass with thermostatic valve?

1.       The house is a work in progress but the heat loss be between 68 and 80k depending on infiltration, insulation etc.. This is with Slant/fin heat loss software.
2.       No old boiler. This is a new install with salvaged radiators…. because I’m insane.
3.       New boiler is 85 to 103 depending on firing ???
4.       EDR was matched pretty close to the upper limit of the heat loss so figure 470 ish. Not sure if that’s the right way but it’s what I did with what I knew at the time. I can add radiators if needed.
5.       1 ¼ mains with 1” branch that then splits to ¾” to the rads. All black pipe.
 
Basically this is an old large one-room schoolhouse. Brick construction with no insulation. 14ft ceilings, attic will be well insulated. Infiltration will be average( single pane windows with storms). Heat loss is high for sq/ft. 4 huge antique rads and a couple other small ones. This is a side project that I could never afford to pay someone to do so any help is much appreciated.

Bypass with thermostatic valve?

@ December 1, 2010 12:20 PM in Bypass with thermostatic valve?

Ok this is one of those DIY’er questions so bear with me…
Background: Peerless WBV-03 connected to old cast iron rads.  System water volume is approx. 100gal. No zones. New parallel piping to radiators (i.e. not gravity).

I’d like to install some boiler protection because of the high water content(although there is no mention of this in the Peerless manual???).  P/S piping doesn’t make much sense to me because there wouldn’t be any zones on the secondary so essentially the P/S would act like a system bypass.  That is, assuming both pumps came on at the same time.

I was thinking of a system bypass, with a manual globe valve in the bypass followed by a thermostatic valve with a remote sensor attached to the return. I read about this somewhere but can’t find it again. The TV would close off the bypass as return temps came up and the manual valve would throttle the bypass loop so there would be some system flow initially.

What are the down sides to this setup?
Where do I find a simple thermostatic valve with remote sensor? I can only find the 3-way mixing type.
Thanks.

water fill far from boiler? OK?

@ February 9, 2010 2:09 AM in water fill far from boiler? OK?

Lets say I want to move the boiler to the garage (about 100ft away) but don’t want to run a water line to the garage. Is it ok to have the water fill in the house that far from the boiler? Can it be anywhere in the system. I’d be using insulated barrier PEX from garage to house and connecting to an older black pipe/cast iron rad. system. Thanks.

@ August 5, 2004 6:13 PM in cast iron radiators

Hello, Anyone know how hard it is to re-size old cast iron radiators? I have 10 radiators, all the same style, and I need 3 large rads for a very large room. I'd like to add sections. How hard are they to get apart and put back together and will they leak? Has anyone done this? Thanks, AJ

@ November 18, 2003 12:10 AM in radiators below water line

Let's say I wanted to install a two-pipe steam system in a house without a basement. The radiators would be on the same plane as the boiler. If I used a condensate pump and a check valve, would this work? I know, a new two-pipe steam system is slightly ridiculous.

@ November 17, 2003 1:31 PM in new residential steam?

What are high temp hydronics? Your joking about the drop header right? Thanks for the input so far. P.S. I'm a cabinetmaker by trade so speak english :)

@ November 16, 2003 6:14 PM in new residential steam?

I don't have a basement. I guess a steam boiler has to be below the radiators right? How much lower would it have to be?

@ November 16, 2003 1:46 PM in new residential steam?

I'm restoring an old one-room schoolhouse and I'm trying to decide on a heating system. Because the heat-loss will be very high, (16ft ceilings, unisulated brick walls, lots of single pane windows) I'd like to heat primarly with a woodstove, but I need back-up system also. I'm thinking the back-up should respond very quickly since it will only be on for short periods. Forced air is out of the question, I can't stand it. I was thinking radiant floor or hot water with old radiators but that takes a long time to heat up. Which leads me to steam. I have heard that steam is less efficient than hot water, but would that be true in this case, where it's only on for a couple hours at a time? Does this make any sense? Any help or ideas appreciated.