Joined on April 6, 2005
Last Post on March 30, 2014
@ March 30, 2014 5:11 PM in Help! Left water on filling boiler and now...Thanks for your kind words Heather. I'm very happy to have you both as new clients and friends.
@ March 29, 2014 5:40 PM in Help! Left water on filling boiler and now...Thanks to everyone for helping Heather get through her initial problems. I made the repairs to her system and she asked me to post a follow-up to let you know what transpired.
It appeared that the over-pressurization caused a failure of her Pressuretrol. And to compund matters, her boiler pressure gauge was also damaged at some point. I'm not sure if that was related to this incident, but it reads 8PSI when the boiler has no pressure on it. It's an 9 year old Dunkirk PVSB-5D with the 0-30 PSI gauge mounted into a top tapping.
Either way, we changed the pressuretrol, lowered her pressure to 2PSI with a 1 PSI cut-in, and added a low pressure gauge (0-5 PSI). We decided to forgo replacing the 0-30 PSI gauge as it now has little real value to her (or me).
Her end-of-main vents were also undersized (Dole #4's), one was leaking and the other was questionable, so we replaced them w/ Gorton #2's.
Time to vent the long main has dropped from over 13 minutes down to 71 seconds.
Next up ... replacing some failed radiator vents, balancing the system and adding some near-boiler insulation. The thermostat also needs replacing (a Hunter 44100) as it has no cycle/hr adjustment.
@ August 21, 2013 5:03 PM in Fixture angle stop valve best strategy for copper?Brasscraft makes a stop with a 5" extension and bell escutcheon for sweating onto a 1/2" copper stubout. Rough it in with about a 6" stubout w/ cap. On finish just cut off the cap and slide the stop with extension over the copper to within an inch of the wall. Solder the extension and slide the bell escutcheon up to the wall. Very clean and neat. No exposed copper. The CS40 is an angle stop and the CS41 is straight.
@ May 22, 2013 10:32 AM in I have noticed more and more shotty workThe box is an intriguing way to explain to others what is instinctive to you.
I like to explain that all piping traveling in the same direction of joists should be up in the joist space. Pipe traveling against the joist should be attached to the underside.
Horizontal piping is supported every 3rd joist or 4', regardless of pipe size. This keeps things uniform looking.
No strap iron or mechanic's wire. Always use swivel hangers and threaded rod for anything over 3/4". Hangers and rod are inexpensive. We get lots of compliments on how "commercial" or "heavy duty" our residential installs look.
Years ago we found the Caddy # 6TIO offset bracket for hanging 3/8" rod from overhead joists and have used them ever since.
Thanks for starting this thread.
@ October 14, 2012 2:48 PM in Delayed closing of gas valveAnd no teflon tape used here. I'll keep you informed of progress. Haven't been able to access the site to try some of these suggestions as the owner is out of town for long stretches at a time. So if I don't post progress it's not because I don't value all of your wisdom. I'm just limited to access to the equipment. Thanks everyone!
@ October 14, 2012 2:42 PM in Delayed closing of gas valveby the owner before I was involved. I would have suggested spark ignition but standing pilot is still allowed here.
@ October 14, 2012 2:39 PM in Delayed closing of gas valveThey've involved Smith and Smith supplied the replacement valve. I've also called WR support as well. Everyone seems to be stumped.
I see why you would think the second valve is also bad. I'm considering a switch to a Honeywell valve.
@ October 9, 2012 9:31 PM in Delayed closing of gas valvefrom the gas valve it does not close. It will close gradually after about 30 seconds and even then it sometimes leaks by just a little for another minute or so with a tiny flame at the orifice closest to the gas valve.
Yes, I replaced the gas valve with the same model.
Yes, the valve stays open when the switch is shut off but as I mentioned above it will stay open for 30 seconds or so whether or not the 24V terminals are connected at the gas valve. I've also measured the voltage at the TH & TR terminals and it drops to 0 when the switch is shut off.
@ October 8, 2012 10:22 PM in Delayed closing of gas valveThe secondary or backup pressuretrol is wired to what you refer to as the junction block in the thermocouple circuit. The 24V connections are connected to the TH & TR terminals. The TH/TR terminal is not used. The boiler is for process heating in a small batch distillery and the call for heat is initiated by a manual switch instead of a thermostat.
@ October 7, 2012 6:01 PM in Delayed closing of gas valveso trying new ECO wires to the Pressuretrol should be no problem. I was also going to eliminate the Pressuretrol altogether (temporarily) by installing a jumper on the ECO terminals. I can't see where that would help with a delayed closing but at least it would eliminate the ECO or Pressuretrol as a contributing factor.
@ October 7, 2012 5:57 PM in Delayed closing of gas valveWhat would you expect for results when connected this way? Are you thinking it would prove or disprove a Pressuretrol problem?
@ October 7, 2012 4:50 PM in Delayed closing of gas valveI recently installed a Smith GB-250-9 steam boiler that works fine until the call for heat is removed. At that point the damper closes but the gas valve remains open for another 30 seconds or so. When it does finally close, it closes slowly. Sometimes trickling a small amount of gas for another minute or so that slowly burns at the closest orifice on the manifold. I've verified that no voltage is present at the gas valve. I've even removed the power terminals and the valve remains open.
This boiler has a White-Rodgers 36C53-418 gas valve. Inlet pressure is measured at 6.75” WC (static) and drops to 5.25” WC under flow. Manifold pressure is 3.5”. It also has a Honeywell Pressuretrol as a secondary hi limit connected to the ECO terminals on the gas valve. When one of the ECO terminal connections is removed from the gas valve, it closes immediately.
So far I've changed the gas valve and the problem persists. WR factory support says the pressures are within spec and suspects the Pressuretrol connected to the ECO is somehow causing the problem. I haven't had an opportunity to check that theory but I'm doubtful it's related.
Anyone else have a similar experience or care to weigh in? I'm running out of ideas.
@ March 26, 2012 7:52 AM in Concerned CustomerFor starters, I'd contact the Alabama Attorney Gereral's office. They have a consumer hot line and you can file a complaint on-line.
It would probably be very helpful to put together an detailed written timeline of relative dates, paperwork signed and checks written.
If all else fails, I'm sure the local TV news would be all over this.
Good luck and thank you for your service.
@ March 12, 2012 9:14 AM in Old House Advice: Remove Radiators, Get AC?Since you'd like to remove the radiators but keep the hot water heat you may want to consider radiant ceilings. It's the perfect application for a retrofit like yours. You would lose about 2" of ceiling height but gain all the benefits of radiant heat and reclaim the floor space taken up by your cast iron radiators.
I agree with Steamhead that a small duct, high velocity AC system like Unico or SpacePak is the best solution for cooling.
@ November 28, 2011 10:11 PM in Dunkirk Q95M-200 Ignition ProblemJust wanted to follow up with a post to let everyone know that the new burner and updated control looks like it did the trick. I installed it today and the ignition is smooth and consistent.
Thanks to everyone for all the great help. ECR was also very responsive. Once again Heating Help to the rescue!
@ November 14, 2011 2:41 PM in Dunkirk Q95M-200 Ignition ProblemBob,
Thanks for sharing your experience. I just spoke with Steve Snyder at ECR. He was very helpful and is sending me the kit with the parts you suggested. I'll post the results after the new kit gets here.
@ November 14, 2011 8:39 AM in Dunkirk Q95M-200 Ignition ProblemBob,
The ignition module says "Rev B".
Are you saying there's not only a Rev C ignition module but a burner upgrade too?
@ November 13, 2011 10:11 PM in Dunkirk Q95M-200 Ignition ProblemThe boiler was installed in 2007 and the ignition problem has been happening for at least a couple years. I inherited the problem along with the radiant heating project for a new addition. The original installer was never able to solve the problem.
There were some problems with the original vent installation relative to spacing as you suggested. As part of the addition project I relocated the boiler and installed a new vent system with a concentric vent kit and paid strict attention to the I & O manual for size, length, and number of fittings. Frankly, I expected the new vent to correct the problem.
@ November 13, 2011 7:03 PM in Dunkirk Q95M-200 Ignition ProblemTim,
Thanks for taking the time to clarify that for me. That's exactly what I thought you meant but had never heard of it being done on the vent side.
I learned a long time ago that it's better to ask a stupid question than to make a stupid mistake.
I'll try it tomorrow and report back. Thanks again.
@ November 13, 2011 3:28 PM in Dunkirk Q95M-200 Ignition ProblemTim,
I get the idea of disconnecting the inlet piping. That's easy to do and eliminates the possibility of a restriction on the combustion air supply piping system.
Do I understand correctly from your post that you're also suggesting I cut the vent (discharge) piping and run the boiler with it disconnected to eliminate the possibility of a vent piping blockage issue? Is that safe to do? It doesn't seem intuitively wise. Wouldn't the pressure readings from my combustion analysis answer the plugged vent question?
@ November 13, 2011 1:36 PM in Dunkirk Q95M-200 Ignition ProblemI didn't take a manifold pressure reading yet but I can tomorrow. The manual didn't give any acceptable range for manifold pressure.
Thanks for the suggestion to remove the intake vent elbow (Fernco). I'll try that tomorrow when I go back to the job.
@ November 13, 2011 1:33 PM in Dunkirk Q95M-200 Ignition ProblemTim,
Here are the combustion readings I got once it stabilized:
High fire - 9.5% CO2, 17 ppm CO, 4.2% O2
Low fire - 9.7% CO2, 10 ppm CO, 3.7% O2
The flame signal measured 7.0 VDC at high fire although the voltage bounced wildly during ignition.
Gas pressure was 6.5" inlet before firing, bounced around quite a bit during firing but didn't see anything below 5", and 6.3" after steady flame was established. I didn't take any outlet (manifold) readings because the manual didn't supply normal numbers for me to compare them to.
Anything specific I should be looking for when pulling apart the blower assembly?
I forgot to mention that i also checked the pressure switch hoses for blockage. I will check the pressure switch contacts when I get back to the job tomorrow.