Heating Help

Lower temperatures

@ February 5, 2004 3:56 AM in Polybutylene strikes again

"Also there are some theory's out there that fell that the O2 deal isn't quite as bad at lower temps" Not theories, Floyd, it's a fact.

Smack it down FAST, Dave!

@ February 3, 2004 3:30 PM in The definition of irony! (PAH)

Don't suffer needlessly for three days waiting for an ineffective antibiotic to work. That happened to me, and it kicked my ass like it's never been kicked. So weak I couldn't sit up. Coughing up blood, soaking the sheets at night with sweat. Chills. Fever. I came to a point where I just couldn't take it anymore. I was done. Finished. Nuthin left. I surrendered completely, started spontaneously saying prayers of thanks for my time on Earth, for the beauties of the Earth He's shown me, for the kindness of others, for having been made a human being, for being given the capacity to love and have feelings, and suddenly I had an out-of-body experience! -I'm not kidding- started like the Star Trek warp speed where the stars blur, you're going so fast? Hopefully you're not in that bad a shape. I had one of the resistant bugs. Augmentin didn't work, Rocephrin did. The faster you kill it the better. So... You gonna spit into a cup and get the bacteria checked out to see if it's Legionellae? My thoughts are with you, my friend, I know it's no picnic. Sit up and cough (if the Doc says it's OK). Get well soon and relax and take it easy.

Order of preference

@ February 2, 2004 3:22 PM in best tubing type

eric, since you said subfloor heating under hardwood/tile, I assume you're running it *under* the subfloor (not between subfloor and finish floor). All installs need attention to detail where tubing passes through drilled holes to avoid rubbing noises- plastic sleeving. Long runs of PEX need expansion loops to absorb movement. I'd have to say L copper definitely is the gold standard as far as longevity and durability in closed systems with good water quality. Downside: Good luck installing it, it's a bear to work with (but practice makes perfect). It takes time: If your time less important than quality, go for it. I picture a long U for each joist space with solder or brazed joints at the ends. Personally, I'd go with PEX-Al-PEX because it doesn't sag, is easy to work with, and doesn't expand and contract as much as PEX. Downside: Maybe not as tough as thick walled PEX, but good for your application. Needs care and attention not to kink - drill large holes for pulling tubing. You'll get the hang of it. PEX is good for longevity and durability too. Downside: Expands and contracts a lot, needs special attention in this respect. The tubing sags when you put the heat to it. Guess that's not an issue if you don't care about aesthetics. You couldn't pay me to use any rubber product if longevity and durability is determining the selection. As a side note, I used PB in my own home for slab heating. 12 years old. Not a problem if you use low temperatures. I used standard compression fittings - inserts and compression rings. Are you having leaks?

True enough Mark

@ January 29, 2004 2:49 PM in A letter to the editor of FHB

If a tree falls in the forest and there's no-one around...? First point: Non-reported cases. As I understand it, the CDC only addresses outbreaks of Legionella. Events where many people are affected... they are focused on epidemics, not isolated incidents that may occur in individual homes. Second point: Misdiagnosed cases. Bacterial pneumonia kills a LOT of people in the U.S. every year. No-one knows how many of these cases may have been Legionella. Third point: Healthy people aren't likely to get LD unless exposed to massive amounts of the bacteria. Our immune systems are generally able to handle it quite well. Grandma isn't so lucky, especially not if she smokes. Cancer suppressing drugs can also weaken the immune system. The Legionaires - old guys that smoked and happened to be near a cooling tower. Outbreaks in hospitals - weakened immune systems. A healthy person CAN get it if the bacteria are present in numbers sufficient to overwhelm the immune system, as in cooling towers. I think Dave's description of open systems as a bacterial "amplifier" is an apt one. Sure, the odds of getting killed by lightning are slim to none. But I don't go for walks on a golf course during a lightning storm wearing a tin foil hat and holding an umbrella either. The chances of contracting it MAY be less than the chances of getting struck by lightning, but it appears we don't have sufficient or accurate data to either prove or disprove that. It's hard to inform someone of precisely what the chances are if you don't have data. You can tell them open systems increase the risk, though. Bacterial pneumonia is no fun, Legionaire's Disease, Pneumonic Plague and Anthrax are some examples of it. I had bacterial pneumonia, an antibiotic-resistant type. Never found out how I got it. Though I'm generally robust and healthy, I spent a long six days in the hospital soaking the sheets in sweat, shivering with the chills and coughing up blood. Didn't eat for five days. So weak I could barely sit up. 15% to 20% of people my age don't walk out. 40% of elderly people don't make it. I'll let someone else install open systems, that's my choice. If a customer doesn't want to spent a few hundred extra bucks for a boiler or heat exchanger, that's their choice. I wonder what the hell's up with the regulating authorites? Dave, do you know what experts they consulted to help make their decision? There's lots of money involved in installing safer systems. Evidently, thousands upon thousands of people must get blown up or caught on fire by water heaters igniting solvents or fuel, because it seems money's no object there - those new WHs are pricey, aren't they?

True enough Mark

@ January 29, 2004 1:46 PM in A letter to the editor of FHB

> If a trade magazine doesn't publish a
> statistic, are we then to assume that there are
> no problems?
>
> Tell me how many CO articles you
> have seen in "trade" magazines.
>
> I haven't
> seen ANY, yet CO poisoning accounts for over 90%
> of the accidental poisonings in the
> USA.
>
> Legionella is real, and ABSOLUTELY NO ONE
> in our industry tests for it, and MOST don't even
> know what the hell Legionella is. IT KILLS
> PEOPLE! You get that? DEAD!
>
> So there are no
> "documented" cases of this caused by an open
> heating system. Well Ladidah! They NEVER tested
> for it, so how can you know?????????
>
> This is a
> no brainer IMO. Dave has followed this issue, he
> has the science. Just because it doesn't make
> headlines doesn't mean it isn't true.
>
> Mark
> H
>
> _A
> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=
> 238&Step=30"_To Learn More About This
> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in
> "Find A Contractor"_/A_

Convective air movement.

@ January 24, 2004 6:53 PM in Blower door demonstration

What do you mean the attic and basement are closed off now, they weren't before? Closed off from what? I'm thinking about moisture problems, What part of the country are you in? I noticed you said "old" house. What are the insulation levels and types in roof, floor and walls? What type of construction (lap siding, maybe)? Did the blower door guys point out things to you like plumbing chases that extend from basement to attic? Kitchen cabinet soffits? There are ways outside air movement can scrub heat from walls whose inside surfaces are warm. Even though no actual outside-to-inside air exchange takes place.

Wellallrightythen

@ January 24, 2004 6:26 PM in How's this for honesty? (PAH)

I guess it's easier to do the right thing when there aren't millions of dollars involved. Hey, why not do as Jackchips suggested and make a motion to table (or kill) the proposal at the next meeting? My prediction: the board members will look like they swallowed a booger. They'll look off to their sides. Then they'll look down at some papers in front of them. They'll shift uncomfortably in their chairs. They'll look at each other. No one will say anything, maybe some muttering. Maybe someone will clear their throat. Maybe take a sip of water. Scratch an itch behind their neck. More paper rustling. Glance behind them, then at the ceiling. Then they'll move on to something else. A secret, previously prepaid "donation" of $1,000.00 to a "sympathetic" board member might get the motion seconded. Yes I'm kidding (about the donation). No need to worry, though... while you're planning your strategy, they've already moved on to something else. As for the plumbers torch fees? They'll doublecross that bridge when they come to it. What is it with York, Dave? Wasn't a past mayor of York brought up on charges or convicted of manslaughter at one time? Some race related issue?

Telling the truth.

@ January 23, 2004 1:12 PM in How's this for honesty? (PAH)

Jack, what's up with you defending politicians? I read your post on PAH's other thread where you said something like the politicians are only people, they are us. Agreed that you can't say ALL politicians are (fill in the blankety-blank-blank) They are human beings. But from what I read of Dave's post and the links, the politicians of York that wanted to capriciously charge candle burners and torch users are IDIOTS! Sometimes when a person acts like an idiot, you just have to call the idiot an idiot. In my lifetime, I've sure taken my turn as an idiot, but when I do it, there is no injustice to others involved, and I don't make money off the sweat of hard working people's backs to pay off my spending habits. Absolutely LOVED reading a short interview with Bob Dole in this week's Newsweek. He ended the interview by saying something like: "I'm not running for anything, I can tell the truth now." So tell us a good story about a politician. I'm thinkin' one helped you out. Or maybe not? Just for the sake of discussion, that's all...

Telling the truth.

@ January 23, 2004 1:01 PM in How's this for honesty? (PAH)

Jack, what's up with you defending politicians? I read your post on PAH's other thread where you said something like the politicians are only people, they are us. Agreed that you can't say ALL politicians are (fill in the blankety-blank-blank) They are human beings. But from what I read of Dave's post and the links, the politicians of York that wanted to capriciously charge candle burners and torch users are IDIOTS! Sometimes when a person acts like an idiot, you just have to call the idiot an idiot. In my lifetime, I've sure taken my turn as an idiot, but when I do it, there is no injustice to others involved, and I don't make money off the sweat of hard working people's backs to pay off my spending habits. Absolutely LOVED reading a short interview with Bob Dole in this week's Newsweek. He ended the interview by saying something like: "I'm not running for anything, I can tell the truth now." Incredible. So tell us a good story about a politician. I'm thinkin' one helped you out. Or maybe not?

;-)

@ January 21, 2004 1:43 PM in Perspective - Dan H.

And wiser.

But Dan...

@ January 21, 2004 1:31 PM in Perspective - Dan H.

I can't wait untill everyone at Radiantec dies to make my living here and now. Realistically, common sense says there will ALWAYS be do-it-yourselfers. That's a good thing, everyone needs a hobby. The good ones will do it themselves, do it well, and live happily ever after. The not-so-good ones will eventually call in the pros to straighten things out, will know themselves better, and will live happily ever after. It's not that big of a slice of the pie. It WOULD be interesting to find out what happened to those guys, considering the Great Depression started in 1929, and consumers had bigger things to worry about, like food and clothing. P.S. I appreciate their honesty when they said: "Remember, please, our business is to sell as much of our goods as we can, and please you in every transaction"

Please Andrew, have a heart!

@ January 21, 2004 1:13 PM in Radiant floor Staple-up insulation

Let them cut it and splice the leak, it's common practice and it's no big deal. Be reasonable, man! As for insulation, the more the better, within reason. Yes, install the fiberglass under the reflectix. Fiberglass is cheap and effective. It also has some value as sound insulation if nothing else. If I recall correctly, insulation installers charge about $0.05 per square foot to install the stuff. Peanuts. You definitely want to carefully stuff the ends of each bay with fiberglass if they are outside walls! Gotta insulate outside walls! I've watched this thread with interest regarding the various opinions on insulation. Most of them correct, incidentally. Have you asked the manufacturer what their recomendation for insulation is? What kind of plates are we talking about here? Thin flashing metal or thick extruded plates?

Reasons for codes

@ January 21, 2004 12:08 PM in A follow up........

Hey Mr. Smith, just because someone's an inspector, it doesn't mean they are knowledgable about all aspects of things mechanical. Too often, it's who they know, not what they know. Anyway, if it never occurred to him that there could be pressure differences between the attic and the living space, there's no way he could figure it's not just a quirky installation, but a dangerous one. I'd probably draw him a little picture showing him how higher pressure in the attic could cause a downdraft, pushing combustion products into the living space. At that point, he'll either choose to ignore it, or go back and red tag it. Not much chance of that if he doesn't see the danger of it - plus, he probably doesn't like to admit he's wrong, sometimes it's part of the authority mentality. If he does red tag it, your boss might fire you, but at least you'll know you've done the right thing.

recirculating cold water

@ January 20, 2004 2:20 PM in Recirculating cold water to prevent freeze-ups

Not much personal experience there Joe, because it's always just sounded too risky to me. I know that you know some folks leave their faucets running a bit to prevent freezing, and it works a lot of the time, but not all of the time. Depends on flow rate, water temperature, exposed pipe area, outdoor temperature, and wind and infiltration. Not easy to calculate with any certainty, I'd guess. Recirculating cold water: If you think about it, that's the way icicles are made. Even streams freeze over if it gets cold enough.

All righty, then...

@ January 19, 2004 11:42 PM in a funny story

Sure, Mr. Smith... ANYONE can make fun of a crack jackhammer crew, CAN'T THEY?! How about making fun of some highly paid professionals? Something is happening, and you don't know what it is.... Do you, Mr Smith? *wink, wink* *** The following are actual questions asked by actual lawyers in actual court. Shamelessly stolen from Rolly and Wells, Salt Lake Tribune.*** Q: Mrs. Jones, do you believe you are emotionally stable? A: I used to be. Q: How many times have you committed suicide? . Q: Was that the same nose you broke as a child? . Q: What happened then? A: He told me, he says, "I have to kill you because you can identify me." Q: Did he kill you? . Q: Was it you or your brother that was killed in the war? . Q: The youngest son, the 20-year-old, how old is he? . Q: Were you alone or by yourself? . Q: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his sleep, in most cases he just passes quietly away and doesn't know anything about it until the next morning? . Q: How long have you been French Canadian? . Q: Do you have any children, or anything of that kind? . Q: I show you exhibit 3 and ask if you recognize the person in the picture? A: That's me. Q: Were you present when this picture was taken? . Q: Were you present in court this morning when you were sworn in? . Q: Now, Mrs. Johnson, how was your first marriage terminated? A: By death. Q: And by whose death was it terminated? . Q: Do you know how far pregnant you are? A: I'll be three months on Nov. 8. Q: Apparently then, the date of conception was Aug. 8? A: Yes. Q: What were you doing at that time? . Q: So you were gone until you returned? . Q: She had three children right? A: Yes. Q: How many of them were boys? A: None. Q: Were there any girls? . Q: You don't know what it was, and you don't know what it looked like, but can you describe it? . Q: You say that the stairs went down to the basement? A: Yes Q: And these stairs, did they also go up? . A Texas attorney, realizing he was on the verge of unleashing a stupid question, interrupted himself and said "Your Honor, I'd like to strike the next question." . Q: Do you recall the time that you examined the body of Mr. Edington? A: It was in the evening. The autopsy started at about 8:30. Q: And Mr. Edington was dead at the time, is that correct? A: No, you stupid bastard, he was sitting on the table wondering why I was doing an autopsy

Something is happening,

@ January 19, 2004 11:30 PM in a funny story

> guys just like
> this...........scary!!!
>
>
>
> Laurel & Hardy,
> Plumbers
>
> We had a slab leak in our house,
> while still under warranty. The builder sent
> technicians from the installing plumber to take
> care of the problem. The good news is that they
> seemed to be technically competent to handle the
> plumbing. As far as the rest…
>
> The leak was
> located under the slab in the master bedroom
> closet. I pointed out the general area where I
> thought the leak was and not wanting to be a
> pest, I left them to do their job. I was reading
> in the living room when the first plumber (Call
> him Laurel) came out and asked, "How do you
> unlock the closet door?"
>
> "Well," I said, "You
> don't because there's no lock on the
> door."
>
> "Oh," said Laurel and disappeared.
>
> I
> sat for a minute then decided I better check and
> see what was going on. I went to the master bath
> room and heard the other plumber (call him,
> Hardy) exclaim, "Ouch, that hurts" from behind
> the closet door.
>
> "Watch it," said Laurel,
> "that's a sharp knife."
>
> "I just figured that
> out," muttered Hardy.
>
> I asked, "Is something
> the matter?"
>
> "He's locked himself in," said
> Laurel.
>
> "I can't see what I'm doing," said
> Hardy.
>
> No light was coming from under the
> door, so I suggested, "Try the light switch. It's
> on the right, next to the door."
>
> Light poured
> out of the bottom of the door. "Hey, that's a lot
> better."
>
> "He's trying to take the door handle
> off," explained Laurel, "It's the only way he can
> get out."
>
> Remembering the comment about the
> knife, I asked, "Do you want a
> screwdriver?"
>
> Laurel just looked at me, like
> the concept of a screwdriver to remove a screw
> was foreign to him. Then again, maybe it
> was.
>
> I went to get a screwdriver, but by the
> time I got back, Hardy managed to get the door
> handle off. He was standing there holding the
> knife in one hand and wiping blood on his shirt
> with the other. I left the room to keep from
> laughing.
>
> A few minutes later, I revisited the
> scene. Laurel was busy trying to reassemble the
> door handle. He couldn't quite figure out how to
> do it, so he left it hanging halfway on the door
> (it only took me five minutes to fix it after
> they left).
>
> Since Laurel couldn't get the door
> handle back on, he was afraid he or Hardy might
> lock themselves in again (even though the door
> doesn't lock, never had before, and never has
> since). Laurel decided to tape the door's bolt
> open (apparently it never occurred to them to
> simply leave the door open). All he must have had
> was some kind of super tacky black duct tape
> because he covered the door with it. Once
> applied, parts of it never came off. There are
> still black marks around the door handle that
> won't come off. Eventually, I'm going to have to
> repaint the door.
>
> Laurel located the leak.
> Trying to be conscientious, he carefully moved
> the refrigerator back from the wall in the
> kitchen and took everything off the top. "These
> might come off when we jackhammer," he said.
>
> I
> appreciated his thoroughness. However, the
> refrigerator was fifteen feet away from the leak.
> Laurel failed to move my wife's treasured
> breakables that were placed around the master
> bathtub, around five feet from the leak. Of
> course, once Laurel started jackhammering, the
> breakables broke.
>
> Laurel finished the
> jackhammering and located the leak. He then
> declared he had to run to the supply house, but
> that Hardy was staying. A few minutes later Hardy
> came out and asked for a cup. I thought he was
> thirsty, so I have him one, filled with ice
> water. He looked at me like I was strange and
> disappeared back into the bedroom. I went back to
> my book in the living room.
>
> A few minutes
> after that, Hardy came walking out the front door
> carrying a bucket. He repeated the process a few
> minutes later and again, a few minutes after
> that.
>
> Curiosity got the better of me and I
> went to the closet. Hardy was on the floor over
> the slab leak using the cup I gave him to scoop
> water from the hole in the slab and fill the
> bucket. He was using one hand to scoop the water
> while he held the other, cut hand, in the air so
> that he didn't get it dirty (or dirtier). The
> water was gradually rising in the hole.
> "Don't you have a pump?" I asked.
>
> "Pump?"
> Hardy looked befuddled.
>
> I had to leave to keep
> from laughing.
>
> After a while (i.e., enough of
> Hardy's bucket trips that I lost count), Laurel
> returned. They eventually got the water under
> control, though the cup was ruined in the
> process.
>
> Laurel came out to tell me someone
> from the shop was coming by to pick up Hardy for
> another job, since he wasn't needed to finish up.
> I decided to run some errands and told Laurel I
> was going to Lowe's.
>
> "Could you pick up some
> rebar?" he asked, "I forgot it."
>
> About the
> time I returned with Laurel's rebar, the
> mini-pickup from the shop showed up for Hardy.
> The truck had been hit somewhere down the line.
> One rear quarter panel was pushed in so far that
> the top of the tire was exposed. The bumper was
> bent straight up over the tailgate, then forward,
> then sideways, then down, in a pretzel
> configuration that looked more like a preformed
> radiator hose than something done to heavy gauge
> steel. By now, this was the type of vehicle I'd
> come to expect from these guys. My wife and I
> call their installation truck, the Exxon Valdez,
> since it's as big as a tanker and leaves an oil
> slick everywhere it goes.
>
> Laurel eventually
> finished. He didn't clean up, though he did move
> the refrigerator back. He left to door handle
> hanging partially assembled, with back tape
> holding the bolt. He never offered to replace the
> cup or pay for the rebar (remember, this was
> warranty work). Fortunately, he did get the slab
> leak fixed.
>
> While this sounds like a funny
> plumber story, it's really a scary one. Later,
> when the builder was asking about the repair, he
> mentioned that the plumbing contractor had sent
> their best crew to our house. Now that's scary.

Sand as an underfloor heat conductor ?

@ January 16, 2004 2:45 PM in Sand?

My eyes about popped out of my head when I saw John Siegenthaler's recent PM article mention sand as an underfloor heat conductor! Man, was I relieved when he mentioned several reasons NOT to use it! Two images come to mind: Picture a giant ant farm. Imagine sand in the building living space. Everywhere... forever. Is this actually an accepted building method?

check valves

@ January 8, 2004 2:10 PM in Flow control valves vs check valves

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't flow control valves simply check valves with a screw that limits how wide they open? Also there's another bottom connection if you need to configure it that way? Or am I thinking of another brand? Anyway, horizontal check valves are fine, I've used them for the same reason you mention. The down side is that they can stick - I'm thinkin' from agressive or dirty water. They can also rattle if the pump isn't powerful enough to fully lift the valve off its seat. I'd say generally that flow in most hydronic systems is forgiving enough that balancing isn't absolutely required. That is, whether one zone is getting 4 gallons per minute while another is getting 1 gallon per minute, design is usually forgiving enough that both zones will heat OK.

Gas, electric, definitely cleaning

@ January 5, 2004 1:46 PM in ignition problem?

What is the gas pressure IN and OUT of the control doing when the problem occurs? Just this weekend I ran out of propane, so I hooked up to a small bottle. I marveled how the boiler burners would ignite and run smoothly. Until the -5°F temperatures (combined with the evaporating propane vapor in that little bottle and maybe vapor turning back into liquid) dropped the inlet pressure to a point where the low pressure was too low to force fuel through that tiny little pilot orifice. Then everything would drop out. In your case it could also be be a case of undersized piping in combination with a different, intermittent large gas load. When the other large load comes on line, the pressure to your boiler may be dropping. Hmm... maybe an electrical problem interrupting the gas valve circuit? What's the boiler temperature doing when the problem occurs? What model Lochinvar? How's the spark (or HSI?) ignition wired in? *Is the pump relay cutting out too?* If it's only the gas valve shutting down, but the pump relay stays pulled in, it would be in the series of safeties before the gas valve: aquastat, high limit, aux limit, flow switch, rollout fuse (not likely), or vent spillage switch or...possible connector problem at the vent damper. Or loose connections to any of those. If the pump relay is also cutting out when it happens, I'd look at the vent damper. Maybe if a service truck is passing by and has half an hour to kill, the vent damper could be temporarily overridden (per manufacturer's instructions!) and see if that cures the problem. Possibility of negative pressures in the boiler room? Guess I'd try the easy good ideas the guys mentioned above first, like grounds and pilot assembly. The pilot assembly hasn't been changed yet, right? Personally, I don't like the shotgun approach (replace everything!), prefer to pinpoint the problem. But it depends on the severity of the problem and the customer's patience. Sometimes you need to get out the shotgun like Mad Dog says. When approached correctly, the burner tray of the Lochinvar slides out easily with removal of half a dozen screws or so. So replacing the pilot assembly is not necessarily a pain. Twelve years old. If it's been short cycling like you describe for an extended period of time, I DEFINITELY would do a CO test. Then get out the respirator, shop vac and metal brushes and pull the burners and lid on that boiler and give the heat exchanger a top-to-bottom cleaning. Then CO test again. Twelve years old = dirty fin tubes. Maybe part of your problem, maybe not - but it needs doing.

Maybe gas, maybe electric, definitely cleaning time.

@ January 5, 2004 1:36 PM in ignition problem?

What is the gas pressure IN and OUT of the control doing when the problem occurs? Just this weekend I ran out of propane, so I hooked up to a small bottle. I marveled how the boiler burners would ignite and run smoothly. Until the -5°F temperatures (combined with the evaporating propane vapor in that little bottle and maybe vapor turning back into liquid) dropped the inlet pressure to a point where the low pressure was too low to force fuel through that tiny little pilot orifice. Then everything would drop out. In your case it could also be be a case of undersized piping in combination with a different, intermittent large gas load. When the other large load comes on line, the pressure to your boiler may be dropping. Hmm... maybe an electrical problem interrupting the gas valve circuit? What model Lochinvar? How's the spark ignition is wired in? *Is the pump relay cutting out too?* If it's only the gas valve shutting down, but the pump relay stays pulled in, it would be in the series of safeties before the gas valve: aquastat, high limit, aux limit, flow switch, rollout fuse (not likely), or vent spillage switch or... vent damper problem. Or loose connections to any of those. If the pump relay is also cutting out when it happens, I'd look at the vent damper. Maybe if a service truck is passing by and has a minut, the vent damper could be temporarily overridden (per manufacturer's instructions!) and see if that cures the problem. Guess I'd try the easy stuff mentioned above first like grounds and pilot assembly. Personally, I don't like the shotgun approach (replace everything!), prefer to pinpoint the problem. But it depends on the severity of the problem and the customer's patience. Sometimes you need to get out the shotgun. When approached correctly, the burner tray of the Lochinvar slides out easily with removal of half a dozen screws or so. So replacing the pilot assembly is not necessarily a pain. Twelve years old. If it's been short cycling like you describe for an extended period of time, I DEFINITELY would do a CO test. Then get out the respirator, shop vac and metal brushes and pull the burners and lid on that boiler and give the heat exchanger a top-to-bottom cleaning. Then CO test again. Twelve years old = dirty fin tubes. Maybe part of your problem, maybe not - but it needs doing.

Checked the flow

@ December 31, 2003 12:56 PM in No Heat in Sun Room underfloor

Justin... Exactly HOW did you check the flow? 120°F water circulating with a 40°F temperature drop for two days should throw SOME heat into the floor! No flow, no heat. It's possible the 80° you're seeing at the return is just thermosiphoning (heat migration through a single pipe). A bad circ out of the box might act like you describe, but... Need to know how you checked the flow.

icky...

@ December 29, 2003 1:51 AM in My Ultimate heating system (ME)

Yeah, a giant poopsicle. I was thinking more along the lines of using the higher temperature water from sinks and showers. Wouldn't it be more efficient to scavenge heat from a slightly higher temperature heat source? Before it mixes with all that cold septic water? I dunno, I'm not a geo whiz kinda guy. Geo whiz. That reminds me... SideKick Rick and his crew were a little put off by the ultra-cool slickness of the men's fashion magazine, GQ. They were gonna start their own parody fashion magazine. Instead of GQ Magazine, it would be called Gee Whiz Magazine. Straight eye on the queer guy, I guess. This crew of irreverent iconoclasts also wanted to market a "Shroud of Turin Beach Towel" You gotta uderstand, when I first met SideKick Rick at a party at his place, there was an old gashed up AMC Gremlin parked at the side of the house with a double-bit axe sunk into the roof. Did you know a full sized axe goes through car sheet metal like butter? These are the kind of guys your partner Tom used to hang out with before he got housebroken and domesticated. I liked that crew instantly and like 'em still. No, I'm not drinkin, I'm just a lonely late night typist remembering the good ol days. Til tomorrow, which hopefully will soon become another good ol day. *chuckle*