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David Van Wickler

David Van Wickler

Joined on October 28, 2004

Last Post on June 26, 2006

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page 176

@ June 26, 2006 1:52 PM in Should you install a pump on the boiler side of the 4-way valve

of "Hydronic Radaint Heating" a practical guide for the nonengineer installer.

I wouldn't do it - what do you think?

@ June 23, 2006 9:14 AM in Should you install a pump on the boiler side of the 4-way valve

Here's a sketch of a proposed hydronic heating system with two 4-way valves. On the return to the boiler you'll notice a brazed plate heat exchanger that will provide stanby heat if the boiler should go down. I remember a great little piece of work explaining that the system circulator cannot provide flow in two directions. My theory is that the paddle in the 4-way valve must move in relation to the presure differential between the boiler side of the 4-way valve and the system side of the 4-way valve. The paddle in essence will move very little as the flow is diverted between the boiler side and system side of the 4-way valve. I'm obviously having a difficult time explaining this. Bt I see it as a system that will having a swinging water supply temperature due to the inability of the 4-way valve to modulate since the position of the valve paddle will move a small amount and possibly allow a large amount of system return water to mix with only a small amount of boiler water. This "valve authority" is attempting the impossible, that is figure out what position to be in and maintain a stable supply temperature. It's my belief (right or wrong) that for the 4-way valve to operate properly (and within the programming of the control) it should be located as close as possible to the outlet of the boiler, thus allowing a gravity flow drive throught the valve.

already got but??

@ May 12, 2006 5:43 PM in need free heat/loss calc

already got the slant/fin heat loss calculator but all it gives u is the heating requirements .. anyone got a formula for the cooling side or a heat/loss calc that will give both


@ May 11, 2006 3:57 PM in Dan

But I'm still eating a bit of fish now and then.

@ May 11, 2006 2:21 PM in WM SGO vs. Burnham V8 Series for one pipe steam

I have to say, go with the W+M for steam if they back them up. Please save yourself headaches by staying away from the Burnham steamers. It will rot out, and the manufacturer will tell you that they won't honor the warranty because it 'oxidized above the waterline' and that 'oxygen should not get into the system' -- ask anyone who knows even the slightest about steam and it's a system that's open to the atmosphere! Please, buy something other than Burnham for steam. You'll be happy you did.

flow rate

@ May 11, 2006 2:19 PM in heat pump for domestic hot water help requested

10 degree drop through the heat pump - i.e. 130 outlet 120 inlet

@ May 11, 2006 2:16 PM in between sections leak why?

Be careful of the V8 series. Been hearing of lots of V8 leakers. Mostly steam, but FHW are doing it too after just a handful of years. Darn things rot out.

need some input

@ May 11, 2006 8:44 AM in heat pump for domestic hot water help requested

I have a 75,000 Btuh Heat pump capable of 130F outlet temperature. My thinks is to go with two (33) TurboMax indirects for thermal storage and sufficient surface area from the heat exchanger. This would give me about 72 total gallons for fluid mass - But I'm concerned about the temperature rise. If I pipe the tanks in parallel the velocity would be half what one tank would be and possibly provide suffient time to raise the DHW to at least 115-120F. Or do I use a Turbomax with a storage tank and circulate the turbomax through the storage tank to provide sufficient DHW storage volume? The owner is very energy conservative and is using low flow shower heads. There are no plans for body spray and deluge heads. The heat pump is supplied by an existing 1200 gallon tank and 6" well. The discharge is into a 100 year old brick lined well that has a 6" concrete cap on it.

I've found

@ May 10, 2006 3:12 PM in Overall Heating Efficiency Action Group........

that there will always be people who honestly believe that things can't be done, and I think that they are absolutely right in their own minds. I don't hang around these people because they can win you over, given enough time. I like JR's spirit. He's positive and he's on a mission. One person can make a difference.

Heat pumps on the rise

@ May 10, 2006 8:47 AM in residential chilled water systems

I've designed a bunch of reversible heat pump hydronic systems (4-pipe and one 2 pipe). They are very efficient, quiet and easy to stage. I typically use an 80 thermal tank and am very please with the ability of these systems to reduce humidity and not over cool the space.

Crazy question - steam - dual fuel - surging water line

@ February 8, 2006 12:21 PM in is Oil hotter than Natural Gas?

Dual fuel, #2 oil and natural gas 7 triad boilers - 7 million input Piped correctly - unknown connected load, system pressure is 7psi (bad original design - 100 years old - etc). System takes a long time to come up to pressure and while firing on oil the water line surges until the boiler trips on low water. Random boilers. the boilers fill fine. On gas the water line bounces very little. What gives? DVW

There are a few issues here

@ December 16, 2005 5:02 PM in Vitodens question

and can be addressed systematically as soon as the venting is corrected. We will be back at the site as soon as the venting is corrected and at that time we'll look at the piping of the radiators and other issues, regardless of who did what when or why. The end result is the customers satisfaction. It would also be helpful to visit the heat loss and the literature for the panel radiators (i.e. the output of the radiators versus water supply temperature). The boiler codes can all be adjusted. There have been two occasions that I simply reset the codes back to factory settings since there were so many "fingers" pressing the buttons. Also - all of the radiators need to be installed and plumbed. Wales Darby Inc. stands behind their products.

calling Ken Secor

@ November 22, 2005 4:30 PM in Calling Ken Secor

Hello Ken. I cannot locate the original thread concerning a Viessmann Vitoden installation in NYC that you may have been involved with. - Please contact me directly at 631-930-9989 at Wales Darby NY. It seems that the Viessmann installation your involved with requires a site visit. No one here in the NY office was aware of an installation in NYC that you were working on (until the posts here on the Wall). I'll be avaliable after Monday the 28th of November to visit the site with you as soon as the venting has been corrected. Thank you and looking forward to seeing you soon. - David

Radiant Side Trak

@ August 29, 2005 4:04 PM in Anyone seen the Radiant Side Trak from Hydronic Alternatives

I guess Todd's been busy. Imagine what would come of an original idea!?

Radiant Side Trak

@ August 29, 2005 4:01 PM in Anyone seen the Radiant Side Trak from Hydronic Alternatives

It would be nice if these purported genuises had their own ideas. Dale and I can share a common song. We'll see how the patent reads on this one.

Huge home - (3) Vitorond 200 boilers, snow melt, radiant etc.

@ July 28, 2005 9:19 AM in Hail call to Pocono (PA) heating contractors

I have a job specified in PA and need a contractor willing to quote, install, and service a second home in Greentown. Time is of the essence. The homeowner has called me directly since the contractors in the area are not interested in Viessmann, etc. and the owner wants what I've specified. Help a brother. - David Van Wick-Wickler (direct # - 631 930 9989)

Steam question

@ March 31, 2005 10:35 AM in Nudder Steam question

1) Where are the best books to Design a low Pressure Steam system? (I already know where the Lost Art of Steam books are and have the go-ahead to finally get them) And, Take a look at this picture and the diagram by the manufacture. Is there a specific reason NOT to pipe the steam outlet of the boiler into the bull of a tee where the bottom run of the tee is piped to the equalizer line? The boiler is not piped correctly as per the manufactures diagram (or ours for that matter). I have this bouncing water line that underfiring doesn't correct (althoug it's better - the bouncing does hit the LWCO and cuts the burner out). I'm wondering if the outlet steam piping can effect the water level in the boiler due to the velocity of the leaving steam and rushing through the bull of the tee and creating a low pressure region at the run of the tee, and effecting the water line due to delta P at the tee?


@ March 30, 2005 10:33 AM in How do you find a thread older than three days?

I'll try "search"

Trying to find my pH for steam systems thread

@ March 30, 2005 10:32 AM in How do you find a thread older than three days?


Trying to find my pH for steam systems thread

@ March 30, 2005 10:32 AM in How do you find a thread older than three days?



@ March 21, 2005 3:00 PM in Steam question (pH question)

Thanks a bunch - going to the job tomorrow with the installer. So here is a bunch of other stuff I've found out by asking. The orginal system had two large tanks - it appears there was a surge tank and the boiler feed tank. It seems that the engineer didn't need two tanks, only the boiler feed tank. So when the system cold starts the boiler feed tank runs dry. Well, they also have a problem with live steam in the condensate reciever tanks so the trapped the lines prior to dumping into the receiver (Yup double trapping). So when the (7) 900MbtuH boiler fire the feed tank water level drops, the feeder valve opens wide to make-up and then Whooooosh, here comes the condensate back the the feed tank, and phfoooosh goes the condensate out the vent as the feed tank overflows by about 200-250 gallons. So we're dumping chemical, bringing in fresh water and now there's a problem with surging water lines. Oh yeah. The problem isn't so great when they are fired on Nat Gas. Why? Because they have to underfire the burners since the venting is not optimal and there was insuficcient draft. And on Oil the surging is enough to trip the low water cut-off on the boiler. Also - I'll find out if there is an equalizer line on each boiler. What happens if there's no equalizer line on the boiler? - Fun Fun Fun..... Thanks to all - DVW

Proper pH for low pressure (5psi)

@ March 17, 2005 4:18 PM in Steam question (pH question)

I am looking at a problem with a surging waterline - The boilers are vertical steel firetube and have 75 gallon of water with 900MbtuH input dual fuel power burners. The manufacture says surging is not caused by the boiler design. What is the proper pH for a low pressure system? Is underfiring the boiler ok as long as the system pressure is sufficient?
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