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Gordy

Gordy

Joined on October 13, 2004

Last Post on August 30, 2014

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Floor Board Radiant??

@ August 30, 2014 8:51 AM in Floor Board Radiant Converting To Underfloor?

Are you refering to baseboard hot water heat?

ODR

@ August 28, 2014 6:47 AM in Help designing constant circulation with CI radiatiors and low mass boiler

The I valve R has reset capability you have that. The S series has setpoint capability. So S Series for boiler protection it has a boiler return sensor, and supply sensor.

Delta T circ would do the job on the emitter side also probably better even than delta P. Set the delta for 20* and the circ will change speed to maintain set delta as trvs close, and higher flow rates start to happen. The Bumble bees curve may not meet the system flow rates, and head though.

TRVs Danfoss, Caleffi make nice ones.

Think about boiler cycling, and buffer tank.

NY Plumber

@ August 26, 2014 6:30 AM in Scorched Air vs Hydrocoil

I think your on the right train of thought. If both HX's are the same temp the air flow should have same RH.

Now the variables of the claims are. In the discussion you had is The FA guy taking this into account, and if so were the happy Hydro air people seeing the same coil temps? Same RH in the house itself? New construction with lotsa moisture to purge out of materials yet?

Apples to apples I just cant see how hydro air vs FA could be different unless coil temp was lower, or it had a leak ;0

I See

@ August 25, 2014 6:17 PM in Help designing constant circulation with CI radiatiors and low mass boiler

A Taco I Valve with outdoor reset, and boiler protection. Yes you have to keep return temps to boiler above 130.
You say you have reset capability on the boiler , but not whether you have the components for ODR. Primary secondary Piping, or Hydraulic seperator. Delta P circulator on radiation side of an eco vario circ, or bumble Bee variety for the TRV's after seeing what system head is if those circs will work. They should.

If you are over radiated thats great for modulating water temps. To bad its not a Modulating boiler, but I take it oil is only available fuel source.

Another option TRV with bypass

@ August 24, 2014 8:59 AM in Hot water baseboard heater too big for room

Is a good one johnny.

Curious on the system before tearing fins off baseboard, or doing anything.

Complex problem

@ August 23, 2014 11:11 PM in Hot water baseboard heater too big for room

If I'm reading your post correctly that room has its own thermostat? Does that thermostat only control that room?

How is the rest of the house ? Cold rooms hot rooms?

Wondering how the baseboards are piped. That room may be the first baseboard in a loop.

Another option is lowering supply temp to the baseboard say from 180 to 160. All though this could have under heating consequences in the other baseboard in the house.

Not the boiler

@ August 21, 2014 11:38 AM in Best Cast Iron Boiler?

Usually it's the installer. That's what you need to look for. A good installer has a selection of boilers he uses that he can readily get parts for in case there is a problem.

Most boilers are created equal. It's the installation that makes all the difference as to the efficiency, and longevity of the boiler.

Your exactly right

@ August 20, 2014 10:04 PM in Hydronic Baseboard Altitude Derate?

Not enough to worry about at 5000'. If your paranoid raise AWT to 170, or add more base board No?

deration

@ August 20, 2014 7:58 PM in Hydronic Baseboard Altitude Derate?

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-altitude-density-volume-d_195.html

Thermal Mass

@ August 17, 2014 3:40 PM in System's Architect

The control strategy could be tricky in that getting the btus when you need them, and where you need them, and keeping them at bay when you do not. the more high mass surfaces involved the higher the level of control needed.

I see seasonal transitions as hurdles for short periods of time. Fly wheel effect depends on how aggressive these seasonal changes happen.

I'm intrigued by this project, but Im wondering about actual real life marketing potential of such a dwelling once dialed into a production aspect. The more complex the more they run away. Lots of widgets to go bad, and replace over time.



Heck Mod/Con boilers were all the craze when they hit the front. Now we have certain people at all levels wondering about ROI for such a high maintenance complex piece of equipment as compared to a CI boiler.

Will the time come when they are the Norm yes, and its only when people dont have a choice in the matter is when these energy conservation products/structures become common place in society sadly it usually happens when its to late.

Just look at the missed opportunity from the last housing bubble. If some hard line standards for conservation were in place think of the potential that could have been.


Please dont take offense to my post Rod I see good potential with your project. But there is the devils advocate in me that sees how far the sucess will go in the market place.

Ceilings

@ August 17, 2014 10:55 AM in System's Architect

Is the way to go like Rich stated. More responsive than concrete floors, plus radiant ceilings in cooling mode have a little more output than radiant floors. Use RFH in some select areas baths. Tight tube spacing a must.

Use of less conductive floor coverings with radiant ceilings will give a neutral effect to the bare feet.

Thermostat for other reasons

@ August 4, 2014 10:26 PM in Oversizing hot water baseboard for efficiency?

In Ice's example would be a thermostat serving as a High limit control.

My solution

@ August 4, 2014 9:49 PM in Smart solution of outdoor shower

30Gal electric tank water heater, drained for the winter. Skip the PV panels to power the WH.

Just to give you an idea

@ August 4, 2014 9:01 PM in Pool heater

My Hayward pool heater is 150000 btu. It raises the pool temp 1/2* per hour for 15000 gal pool. Which is not bad if you plan ahead, or maintain a desired temp constantly.

So ice is pretty close in his calculations.

Those figures are by the book, and dead on real world.

One biggie will they cover the pool when not in use? Evaporation is the heatloss killer in the pool world.

And yeah keep the pool water out of the boiler eh. Like Henry said titanium HX.

Good read

@ August 4, 2014 8:51 PM in flow on system?

http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/343/Circulators/238/Sizing-Circulators-for-Hot-Water-Heating-Systems

Gravity hot water systems have very low head.

Why not use TRVs instead of zone valves? A much better option then use a delta p, or t circ ECM flavor like the bee.

Regarding TRV control

@ August 4, 2014 12:18 AM in Micro-load Dilemma: Add Storage or Nuclear Option

It would be best to use constant circulation. TRVs control space temp ODR controls boiler/ water temp. Use a ecm circulator to curve power consumption.

Tubing in sand

@ July 27, 2014 10:48 AM in Radiant Heat Matrix Other Than Concrete.

Here is something to ponder if your going to do tubing in sand.

That is movement of the tubing expanding and contracting over time working its way to the surface. So an anchoring system needs to be implemented. I would be Leary of staking into soil as the same thing could happen over time working the staking out of the ground.

Thinking this through I would favor elevated beds with the radiant to the root system. Let solar gain heat the atmosphere with in the green house.

I would insulate the tank at all sides but the top backfill with sand allowing the tank temp to radiate into the green house. It may take some trial and error as to what tank temp would allow an acceptable air temp in the green house, and to the root system tubing.

The tank would be heated solar, and what ever alternate means.

I think a vapor moisture barrier on the floor before final floor media is laid to prevent additional water from plant watering in the green house to go in the tank area is critical along with a tank coating. Unless the tank will be plastic not a bad idea.

If this idea did not work out the tank only being a foot deep could be dug down to insulate the top in the future.

If tank is not yet purchased I would opt for a rectangular plastic tank. 67 cubic feet will give you 500 gal. A tank 6x12x1 yields 72 cubic feet or 538 gal. Insulate bottom sides cover top with sand one big emitter with probably pretty low tank temp. If my idea fails dig out the 1' of sand and insulate the top.

Polymetric sand

@ July 26, 2014 4:02 PM in Radiant Heat Matrix Other Than Concrete.

Expensive but once down and wetted when dry is hard and flexible. Main use in filling cracks for laying pavers. Polymers and cement are added to the sand for adhesion, and flexibility weeds won't grow through it.

Next thought would be a flow able fill sand with cement additive different mix designs usually richer (more cement) are the difference facilitate flow.

Your talking 1 cy 4" thick of what ever media you choose. Biggest hurdle is short load charge for redi mix
Mix it's gotten brutal around here.

Your cheaper ordering the 5 1/4 cy cut off than ordering 1 cy

Another polymer modified cold patch sell it by the bag, or go to the state or county highway maint yard. I like this option

Questions

@ July 23, 2014 1:18 PM in Radiant Heat Matrix Other Than Concrete.

Underground tank temp? Typo 550*

Buried tank location? Under green house hmmm one big emitter
Or remote?
Plants grown elevated, or in the ground?

A 500 gal tank would be darn near the
Size of the green house.

6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other

@ July 21, 2014 11:22 PM in Electric Baseboard Vs Hydronic Electric Baseboards

Like Mark says a btu is a btu, and a watt is a watt. The water or oil in the baseboard spreads the heat out over a wider time frame. A little longer heating up, and a little slower cooling down because the water adds mass to the base board. Being electric I doubt either one is superior by much to the other for 4 times the cost is ROI there?

Diaphram tanks

@ July 21, 2014 10:46 PM in bladder tank total volume - who cares?

The diaphram, or bladder in the tank has to have room to flex with in the tank this is the exceptance volume. The total volume would there fore need to be larger than the exceptance volume.

There are calculations for sizing that take into account system volume, and temperature/ operating pressure. Thats why you do not see an across the board exceptance volume being 1/2 total tank volume. It all most starts that way with the small ones but as tank size requirements increase the total and exceptance volume ratio changes.


If you look at a tank style expansion tank its usually 2/3 water 1/3 aircushion, but total tank volume depends on the system volume, temperature, and pressure.

They both operate the same way except bladder types keep the air from being absorbed back into the system water

Steam

@ July 20, 2014 7:09 PM in Advice needed on heating system install

Is actually quite elegant, and others have mentioned ..........
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