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Joined on October 13, 2004

Last Post on April 18, 2014

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some questions

@ May 17, 2008 8:58 PM in Radiant floor and ceiling

Is the ceiling flat, tray or cathedral. There will be some performance differences between the styles. Is the ceiling supplementing the floor output, or vice versa? Gordy

Floors and Ceilings

@ May 16, 2008 11:22 PM in Radiant floor and ceiling

I have 3 rooms with floors and ceilings radiant. Running 115* to both. 135* sounds a little high but my ceilings are only 8'. I would split the difference for simplicity sake, and give a little warmer floor. JMHO Gordy

@ May 10, 2008 6:43 PM in gas surcharge

When does a gas surcharge cross the threshold into just the cost of doing business? I have had a gas surcharge on my garbage bill for over a year now. Think it will ever go back to 2.00 a gal.? Gordy


@ April 28, 2008 6:42 AM in microwave technology

There have been people scalded when taking a cup of boiling water out of the microwave, and sticking a cold metal spoon into the cup. A very violent reaction can occur, which basically sends water spraying all over. Gordy


@ April 22, 2008 10:57 PM in Radiant cieling

A big help for me was an infra red thermometer in tracing down the ceiling piping. Draining, and measuring volume is better yet. If your piping is 1/2" maybe your ceiling pipes are 1' on center which may indicate higher temps needed. But not that much. Usual practice was 3/8" tubing in the plaster though. Gordy

52 Radiant ceiling

@ April 22, 2008 9:59 PM in Radiant cieling

I have a 50's Ceiling radiant system. 3/8" copper tubing inbedded in the plaster 6" on center through out the ranch. Original Taco paneltrol mixing valve (see the walls library). System parallel piped. Listen to NRT Rob my system has never seen temps of over 115* supply with 95* return been that way since its installation. Still have the original Chase copper tubing literature. They do state in the literature 160* supply temps are possible but WHY if you don't need to. I never have the hot head syndrome that people seem to believe. I think someone repiped, and ditched the mixing valve, or maybe the dwelling HAD a high heatloss with the need for higher supply temps. Gordy

First off

@ April 15, 2008 6:03 AM in thick slab over subfloor

When you say thick slab, and sub floor. How thick is the slab, and is the sub floor designed for this type of loading. Gordy

Technology and laziness

@ March 30, 2008 9:41 PM in How long to save investment

Its funny how they can go together. Laziness spawns the technology, so we don't have to remember to turn off the lights. Or if we do leave the lights on they won't use as much juice. What is society turning into? I'm all for tecnology, but it seems there are alot of things on the market that keep the consumer from having to remember to do simple tasks. Gordy

@ March 25, 2008 9:10 PM in Scorched Homes

So the way you are set up you are watering the lawn while cooling the house. What do you do when the lawn does not need watering send it down the drain? Gordy


@ March 23, 2008 1:09 PM in Scorched Homes

YOU MUST BE YELLING OVER THE SOUND YOUR WINDOW SHAKER IS THROWING. Seriously its all about the convienience of walking over to the wall, and throwing the switch to cool. Technology can create lazyness. Gordy


@ March 23, 2008 1:05 PM in Sand on top of tubing

They have trouble getting outside the box if you know what I mean Geoff. This translates to all fields of engineering. Gordy

What roads do you work on?

@ March 20, 2008 7:42 PM in Sand on top of tubing

Bruce I have been in heavy, and highway construction for 24 years. As Hot Rod said pea gravel comes close to 100% compaction IF it is CONTAINED on all sides. Where I come from everything gets compacted per IDOT, or Tollway Athority specs. 95% does not cut it, unless it is an integral abutment style for a bridge. And no sand is not even close to 100% compacted when dumped. Gordy

Sounding like

@ March 18, 2008 8:33 PM in radiant temp

The system is not giving the output needed, from the initial post. Couple other things what is the sectional of the floor sandwich? Is it insulated?

Data needed

@ March 18, 2008 5:42 PM in radiant temp

What are floor surface temps now? What is the tube centers, 12"? What is the water temp. Now? What is the delta t of the loops? How long are the loops? What is the floor sensor set at now? This should be the first question what is the heat loss of the room? What is the area of heated floor?

To hot for the feet

@ March 18, 2008 4:23 PM in radiant temp

If the tubing can take it you might need Sorel boots to walk on the floor. 85* max surface temp. Whats the matter floor can't match the load? Gordy

Or This

@ March 14, 2008 10:11 AM in homemade Quicktrac

I think the point that

@ March 14, 2008 9:07 AM in calculating btu's

Boiler Pro is trying to make is that the Btu's generated for the fan coil are going to lose 20 percent by the time it gets to the room where the btus are needed. You need to compensate. Kind of like having a leaky water supply going to a radiant emitter. you would lose velocity, and the heated medium some where on the way to the point needed. Sure a heat loss for a room is the same no matter what, but you have to get the btus needed to the emitter for that room. Gordy


@ March 12, 2008 6:40 AM in Larry from OSHA

To the hall maybe. The company I used to work for had an incident where we had to set a beam next to a power line. Utility gave us the go ahead the power is off. As soon as the steel beam made ground with some rebar sticking out of the abutment all hell broke lose. Power company pulled up admitted they droped the ball, forgot to shut off the secondary. Visible grounds were not in place so we got a violation. The foreman did not know about that step. No one was killed but 3 iron workers were in the hospital a bit. I'm just looking for the proper info so my project manager can go into an IDOT meeting with a box of kelenex and cry to the RE for extra money to shut off the power, and use flaggers. There are other ways 99% of the time. Sometimes cost bars good judgement and I have to keep them honest. Thanks again for your help Larry

Look Up

@ March 11, 2008 8:39 PM in Larry from OSHA

Look Down there is power all around LOL. Good answer Larry ! Seriously though I have a situation where the lines can not be moved or de energized. They are coated lines that supply power to signals, and overhead lighting to the traffic in the construction area. Two stage bridge construction to be exact. The supplied power is 480v So under 50kv is 10 feet but 1926.550(a)(15) states. "Except where electrical distribution, and transmission lines have been deenrgized, and visibly grounded at point of work or where insulating barriers, not part of or an attatchment to the equipment or machinery have been erected to prevent physical contact with the lines, equipment or machines shall be operated proximate to power lines only in accordance with the following: 550(a)(15)(i);(ii);(iii);(iv);(v);(vi);(vii)." Where can I find out what is an exceptable barrier with coated power lines, and what is the exceptable distance when covered? I'm reading 550 and its sub parts as 10' under 50kv no matter what, Table V1 does not apply in my situation that applies to hot stick, and bare hand work. Any insight would be appreciated Larry thanks Gordy

Calling Larry From OSHA off topic

@ March 11, 2008 6:10 PM in Larry from OSHA

Larry I have an OSHA question for you regarding overhead power, and cranes. Thanks in advance gordy


@ March 9, 2008 10:15 PM in Thermally Amazing Shell and System

One thing is certain energy will always be in an upward trend with some subtle declines along the way. If one wants x amount of square footage then they have to allow for wall thickness in the planning. Yes it increases the foot print. The only way to get away from that is better insulation than what is out there today. I think the threshold is a zero energy (fossil fuel dependent) home, with some sort of solar making up the difference anything above that zero threshold including DHW. Gordy

Levels of Efficiency

@ March 9, 2008 1:24 PM in Downfiring an oil burner

Interesting debate.....I think it needs to be noted that there are different levels of efficiency with in the whole heating system though. Btu content of the fuel of choice to start. We are talking oil specifically here. But we all know that certain fuels will have varying btu content depending on blending. Except for electricity. How efficiently the fuel is being burned hence the combustion analyzer. Like Jim says though, its kinda like a broken watch. Combustion efficiency varying with the btu content of the fuel which can change. How efficient is the HX transfering the btus being made to the water in the HX. We all know there are alot of styles of HXs. Some are better than others at getting the most heat from the fire to the water. Last there is the emmiter efficiency. Alot of styles, and variables there which is drifting off this topic. I will have to say that running the highest level of fire the boiler allows sounds a bit counter intuitive to what a mod/con boiler is suppose to achieve for efficiency by modulating its firing to the load. To me the statements are like saying that you should run the highest temperature rating of an emmiter no matter what the weather is doing outside in order to be efficient. That means that condensing /modulation, outdoor reset are smoke, and mirrors. Just my observation though. All in all as steamhead has said there is no bandaid for improper whole system design. My comments may be off, but I think that there is not apple to apple comparisions being discussed here. Whether it is going to save oil down firing a boiler that is twice as big as needed to do the job. Real old man sounds like you have made a few more adjustments than simply down firing your boiler, and is your boiler twice the size needed to do the job. Gordy
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