Heating Help

< 5 grains

@ December 29, 2009 9:46 PM in Lochinvar Armor water heating boilers............

I'm going to verify that figure with my own test kit. Going on info supplied by the plumber that installed the softener.

Lochinvar Armor water heating boilers............

@ December 29, 2009 2:05 PM in Lochinvar Armor water heating boilers............

Anyone having HX issues with them?
We had a 9 month old AWN199 spring a leak in the HX on Christmas day (naturally) . It provides DHW for a 1500 head dairy farm and of course had to replaced immediately so we swapped out the whole boiler. (Thanks to the guys from Etna Supply here in Michigan for meeting us at their shop at 10PM Christmas evening).
Drew brought the failed unit back this morning and while he was there another contractor at the counter became very interested in the conversation. Seems he was there for the same reason and started giving the poor dude behind the counter all kinds of crap for supposedly telling him they hadn't had any failiures at all with the Knight or Armor HX's.
Just makes me scratch my head a little because we have a number of these out there in high demand commercial and agricultural applications. If we are getting ourselves into trouble I want to know.

Couple notes about the job the failed boiler was on. It maintains a 750 gallon holding tank at 170-175*. All incoming water is softened to 5 grains hardness or less. The unit would "perk" every once in a while causing the whole thing to vibrate and shake for a couple minutes and then not do it again for a long period of time. Like weeks. We flushed and high pressure purged it several times thinking there was something restricting flow in one or more of the HX sections. Never got anything out of it nor did it make the perking go away. Lochinvar tech service went through all the installation parameters and burner set up with me and was very helpful but in the end with all the combustion specs and flow rates spot on, it still perked. Had to be some kind of restriction in the HX right from the get go IMHO.

Merry Christmas to the Holohan tribe

@ December 18, 2009 10:21 PM in I'm a Grandpa!

Thanks Dan. Not a day goes by that I don't wonder why I have been so richly blessed. They all live within 3 miles of home.

In a few years .............

@ December 18, 2009 9:56 PM in I'm a Grandpa!

you can do this with 'em and have frosting fights. :)

Careful dan

@ December 17, 2009 5:26 PM in I'm a Grandpa!

Once they get started.................. they seem to come thick and fast.  And I'll tell you what, I don't think I could ever have too many grandkids. You'll come to appreciate the old joke about finding some way to have them first because they are so much fun!!!!!

Congratulations to you and TLM.

B/B ratio

@ December 17, 2009 4:18 PM in Wouldn't Believe It If I Hadn't Seen It

Low temp operation is all about the emitters and how well the building is wrapped. Obviously the customer isn't enjoying warm floors but hey....... some extra BB costs far less than Climate Panel or tube and plates. I say the Bang/Buck ratio is pretty good.  

Draft hood question

@ December 17, 2009 4:12 PM in Draft hood question

I came across an ancient Flo-Co furnace (Floral City furnace company) that started life probably in the 1940's as a wood/coal fired unit. The grates were still laying there, as was the old ABC oil burner that was the second generation heat source. Along side the oil burner were 3 old thermopile gas valves and a 24V model. It's now set up like a 30 year old 24V standing pilot furnace would be.

The current fuel is natural gas piped right from well head in the adjacent farm field.  I got the problem resolved that initiated the service request (rusted off pilot bracket which made for an interesting ignition sequence) and doing a walk around on the old beast, noticed that there is no draft hood. None on the back of the furnace, no open tee in the flue pipe and no barometric, which explained the gale force wind howling through the burner opening. There is a lot of white powdery substance of a very sulfurous nature in the furnace.
So.....I'm wondering if this old gal should indeed have a draft hood of some kind on it or whether the dead men left it that way to help keep the flue gas going up and out.
What say ye?

Hmmmmmmmm

@ December 17, 2009 3:48 PM in Is this why people prefer gas?

Almost looks like a bit of condensation on the oil unit........but ...gas should contain more water vapor than oil all things considered.  We just took apart an oil fired Vitorond 200 we had not touched in three years and it was nearly spotless inside. That boiler runs a little higher temp, up to 140-150 at design conditions. Usually when i peak in on it the temp is at 120-135*    Possible fuel contaminants?

The one with 19 zone valves............

@ November 24, 2009 9:05 PM in Heating Hell photos of the past

I wonder what size transformer they had on that puppy.  I also like the duct tape holding the cap on the chimney cleanout tee.  It doesn't get much better than that.

Got a bulletin from Viega

@ November 21, 2009 10:16 PM in Zurn Pex Fittings?

IIRC, All their bronze fittings are now compliant with the lead free hyperbole. Viega has always been bronze as far as I know. They have brass in their catalog now that came with the purchase of Vanguard but I think they will be changing also. There's a reason Viega fittings cost more than run of the mill stuff.

Here's the service bulletin

@ November 21, 2009 10:05 PM in My first &quot;Ultra&quot; experience,,,,

FYI:


I noticed the part about failure to comply may result in accelerated corrosion.. Well what about all the folks who have had one running without the X100 for 2-3 years???

You're right Al

@ November 21, 2009 7:59 PM in Now I have seen everything

That was a very broad swipe re: the psych patient thing. Heck some in my extended family have sought counseling. ...........and many say I need it too ;)

I have to say though that the piping looked like a Rorschach test where a bunch of lines and shapes are printed on a paper and a person has to describe what they see.

Now I have seen everything

@ November 21, 2009 7:37 AM in Now I have seen everything

Although I've said that before.......I think this truuuuuly takes the top prize for hydronic stupidity.

Got a call from a lady who wants to buy a Garn wood boiler and have it hooked up to her existing radiant floor system, so I went to see her and the system. From the several phone conversations we had prior to my site visit it was abundantly clear that she had some real "issues" with the installing contractor of her new home. When I got there and laid eyes on the piping I could see why. I wish I had taken my camera. The guy must have some kind of a thing about running pipes vertically. All of the boiler and zone piping runs vertically from floor to ceiling with zone valves stuck in here and there. The whole bundle is maybe 12" in diameter and tubes are so close together that it is impossible to get the covers off the Honeywell ZV's. I was standing there contemplating the mental capacity of the person who did the job and the inspector that approved it when I saw it.............It being the tubing he used for the radiant floor.  I looked down at the manifold for the basement floor and I count 1,2,3 loops of 1/2" Wirsbo and then a hunk of yellow 3/4" tube connected to it. What the............????   I got the flashlight out and on my hands and kness see the following printed on the yellow stuff.  "for gas use only"  !!!!!   
Then, with a sinking feeling I walked over to where the main floor manifold was located and sure enough, every one of the loops is yellow poly gas line. The homeowner and I had a little chat at that point. Turns out she was aware that the tube was not Wirsbo as she had requested but was unaware that it was not approved for hot water use. I looked again in disbelief at the green approval sticker on the 2 year old rusted hulk that was once a Trianco Heatmakerand wondered what twisted logic or sheer ignorance possesed the inspector who approved the system.

Here's the best part. The customer works at a medical office and one day she saw the original installer walk in........turns out he's a psychiatric patient.  Go figure..........

I have a feeling that I will probably get the job and if so I will take pictures of it before the sawzall surgery takes place. It is truly something to see.

Disconnect in reasoning............

@ November 21, 2009 7:03 AM in Will heat pumps someday run hydronic systems all winter?

If we convert to all electric systems we are still using fossil fuels
at the power plant and with transmission losses along the way.

Exactly. It is astounding to me to talk to people who have no concept of how power is made and delivered.

 

Haven't found any difference Dan

@ November 21, 2009 6:34 AM in Thoughts on variable-speed pumping and air removal

I do think however that purging becomes more important along with a properly located microbubble type air eliminator.  We do not rely on the system circ(s) to perform purging duties. Not what they are designed for.  A good power purge with high pressure/high velocity water flow does wonders in a lot of ways.

It is unique for this main reason

@ November 21, 2009 6:21 AM in What is so special about the Viessmann Vitola?

It is a non-condensing boiler but it will operate very nicely with water temps far below what is considered minimum for all other cast iron products. 
I have not seen any other manufacturer utilize this type of technology.
In  Germany and other more progressive parts of the heating world it is available with an "attachment" that captures latent heat in the flue gas bringing efficiency to well over 90%.

Aside from that, the thing is built like an MI Abrams tank. It's easy to clean. The Viessmann chassis burner is a work of art to a flamehead combustion guy. Easy to adjust air and fuel pressure. Very trouble free also. Mine has chugged along with no service whatsoever for 6 years now.

Now.......you have to realize that the Vitola is older technology. It was designed in the days before condensing boilers were available or even dreamed of by most manufacturers. It was Viessmann's solution to working with the problem of low water temperature systems like radiant floors that were coming into use in the late 80's early 90's. All other manufacturers stuck with their high temp design and mandated the use of a mix valve to protect the boiler from condensation. As usual Viessmann "got out of the box" and designed something different to address the problem.

In this day and age of wall hung condensers the Vitola has pretty much lost the edge it once enjoyed by being able to directly work with low temp water.  I still see it as the best boiler for a low temp oil fired application. You will see efficiencies crowding 90% on oil, especially in a low temp system. If I had to pick a boiler that was capable of lasting for 40 years it would be a Vitola.

I'll agree on the serviceability factor

@ November 21, 2009 5:57 AM in My first &quot;Ultra&quot; experience,,,,

I'd give it about a 4 on a 1-10 scale.

On another note, I had a bulletin from W-M come across my desk the other day that would seem to indicate there are some issues cropping up with the AL heat exchanger. W-M is now packaging some "magic stuff chemical" with the boiler to add to the water. It stated that use of the additive is mandatory and it must be maintained for the life of the product. HMmmmmm

Contact info for ESBE in USA

@ November 18, 2009 8:42 AM in Contact info for ESBE in USA

Anyone have a phone # for ESBE. Having problems finding a supplier here.

Hey there!!

@ November 2, 2009 1:28 PM in Hello from an old friend

I wondered what happened to you!  What i really want to know is why in the world, if you are working for a Florida based company, are you still in Detroit??  Kids, school and all that stuff? 

Honeywell link

@ November 2, 2009 1:19 PM in Honeywell link

Anyone have a link to honeywell where I could download a manual for a VisionPro thermostat?  You need a GPS to navigate their website.....:)

Makes my eyes hurt

@ September 12, 2009 6:35 AM in Munchkins fault?

I just keep looking at that air scoopand wondering what they were thinking...........then it dawned on me. They weren't thinking at all. I have to say that most of the Munchie problems i have encountered were installation related also. It's not a bad piece of equipment. Just installed a T-50 on a new job this week. Heat load at design was 26K, normal operation range will be about 15-18. There's not too much on the market that will hit that output. Wish I could get a Vitodens that went from 10-50Kbtu.....................

Infiltration factor

@ September 10, 2009 5:28 AM in How to account for wind with heat loss calculation?

While it's true there will be greater infiltration with a 30mph wind blowing than when it is calm. I have never found an instance where I had to use anything other than the factors listed on the software I use for load calcs. The only thing I would say is don't be optimistic when you select that factor even though the place has newer windows and retrofit insulation.