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TonyS

TonyS

Joined on August 13, 2009

Last Post on March 15, 2014

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Follow the money

@ March 15, 2014 9:34 AM in Mod/Con Heat Exchanger Designs

Aluminum...cheap and easy..aluminum casting was 8th grade metal shop.
Giannoni and others.....bend and stamp. Remember o rings in Giannoni,finally after many failures welded the tubes.

Triangle....robotic welding..by far and away the most expensive and complexed way to build an exchanger but you are no longer limited.

When I said air source hp I meant air to water

@ March 2, 2014 5:58 PM in New Home, Which heat source????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPIjuNFPeKM

Also although you can use a tank type water heater with the altherma. Its hard to beat a tankless that never runs out of hot water. When it comes to the comfort of domestic hot water then go with comfort first and economy second.

Air source Heat Pump

@ March 2, 2014 11:18 AM in New Home, Which heat source????

and PV panels. This is the only way you will gain complete energy independence. New microinverter panels allow you to plug and play panels as you can afford them.
Wood pellets still keep you at the mercy of pellet makers and they use energy to make them. If all of a sudden China decides to pay double for wood pellets guess what happens to you. Also while your building install a centralized chimney for a wood stove.

Heating-Cooling Loss and Gain

@ March 1, 2014 11:02 AM in Heating-Cooling Loss and Gain

How many of you live in areas where a heat loss is required for a permit and how is that implemented? I would like to have it in our area but need a few ideas how to bring it before the board?

Absolutely

@ February 25, 2014 8:50 AM in The best Delta T for a mod-con?

Thats one of the reasons our curves are not linear. We have to move them to compensate for these variables. Look what happens to convection after you get to 120.
The point is..the btu loss of the house is predetermined...The average temp across the existing radiation is also predetermined by the loss of the house.. Therefore the output of the boiler is also predetermined.... so if we are adding x amount of btus to raise the temp of x amount of # of water the whole thing will see equilibrium in very short order.
Piping it this way or that way means nothing( from a btu and temperature standpoint) of course some boilers have to be piped differently because of pressure drop issues.

I use one

@ February 24, 2014 9:37 PM in How many of you carry

in the cockpit  http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/13078

Rip it all out

@ February 24, 2014 8:03 PM in Coil Material Opinions:

Put in some new inverter mini splits. R8 for air temp of 55 and attic temp of 120 thats a 65 degree delta t. They require more in a wall thats a 20 degree delta t.
I did it in my place and it cut my bill in more than half.

Delta t is set by existing radiation

@ February 24, 2014 11:23 AM in The best Delta T for a mod-con?

Lets just say we have a one room house with one radiator. We do a heat load on the home and on a 30 degree day it needs 10000 btus to maintain what is being lost.
We look at our radiator, we measure it, we open the book and it says that piece of radiation will need an average water temp of 170 degrees to emit 10000 btus an hour. We look at our outside temp and it is 30 degrees...perfect. Ok so we figure if we put in 180 to the rad and we adjust the flow that we get 160 out...20 degree delta t, 170 average, we are emitting 10000 btus and are going to replace just what is being lost..that day and time.
We do have options, we could put in 175 degree water and adjust the flow that we have 165 coming out..again we have our 170 degree radiator, not too much not too little.
or we could put in 190 degree water and adjust flow that we get 150 out...average temp...170 and again were right on the money... you can do what you want, as long as your average temp of the radiator is 170, anything else is too much or too little for that day. It doesnt matter what you do back at the boiler, pri sec, straight through, whatever.
In a very short time the system will reach equilibrium and the boiler will modulate down to exactly what is being consumed...10000 btus.

Installation Manual

@ February 23, 2014 9:41 AM in geothermal vs. airsource

https://www.climatemaster.com/downloads/97B0008N03.pdf

Here is a performance chart

@ February 23, 2014 9:38 AM in geothermal vs. airsource

on the unit I have.  http://www.climatemaster.com/share/Res_All_Products_CLM/Section_9_GSW.pdf

One other thing

@ February 22, 2014 10:10 AM in geothermal vs. airsource

There is no magic to them, the press likes to talk them up but they are just a heat pump with a water cooled condenser and in your case it just thinks its 50 degrees out all year round. Just a plain old Copland compressor and a couple of heat exchangers.

Misunderstanding

@ February 22, 2014 10:04 AM in geothermal vs. airsource

The actual amount of water going through the Geo is 4-1/2 gpm. With fresh water you only need 1-1/2 gpm per ton. Close loops are double that. I was just saying that my well could easily feed the geo unit and all the house usage. No need to dig another well.

Cupronickel is offered by all manufacturers as an option, cheap insurance as well water can change over time.

I also filter the water with one of those centrifugal sediment removers, they work well and are very easy to blow out even when the units running.

The pipe going to my stream is only a couple of inches underground but pitches continuously toward the stream so it drains down when finished. Never had any trouble even with sub 0 weather.

I dont cool with mine...chilled water is a pain to insulate and pipe. Ductless mini inverters are to good to waste your time and money on chilled water. So you wont need a desuperheater option, they only work in ac mode. If you want to make domestic hot water you can pipe it like a boiler with an indirect water tank.

Here are some complete systems

@ February 22, 2014 12:55 AM in geothermal vs. airsource

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/enphase-solar-power-system.html

water to water

@ February 22, 2014 12:39 AM in geothermal vs. airsource

I heat my home with a water to water heat pump. I had a well that was clocked at over 32 gpm and 5 ft from the surface.I also have a stream aside of the house for discharge. Water temps remain constant at 55. Hydronic separation with a 40 gallon buffer tank controlled with a tekmar reset control usually running 100 degree water through radiant heating system. COP depends on water temp discharge which changes with outdoor temp. Water from well #5 ph so cupronickel exchanger was used and seems to be holding up well.
The downside is noise, unit is 36000 btu and compressor is in attached mechanical room. Very annoying. Compressors dont seem to get quieter with age.
It works well and is very cheap to operate. Invested in a inverter constant pressure pump to maintain correct flow rate but will replace with smaller pump and cycle stop valve to get same results with lower pumping cost.
I have seen some of the systems that use closed loops and wells and have heard the prices people pay for them. To me it doesnt make any sense. Air to water heat pumps will give the same comfort and the money saved will put an entire array of photovoltaics to run it. Efficiency becomes moot at that point because the air to water system would run for free. Photovoltaics have been dropping in price and I really like the plug and play convenience of micro inverters.

I agree

@ February 21, 2014 7:53 PM in mini split heat pump install in wi.

Would be much better to run a multi unit for the heat load and only use half the units for a/c.  Also I would like to correct my last post. Google air to water heat pump not vise versa.

David...I hate to tell you this but

@ February 20, 2014 11:10 PM in mini split heat pump install in wi.

These 410 inverters work great at 0 degrees. I work in Reading Pa and our design day is 15. We hit alot of design days this year and much lower, below 0.
These mini spits worked great. I was called in to repair a steam system in town, when I got there the owner of the little bodega was heating with a heat pump I installed for A/C a year ago. I walked under it and it was blowing very warm air on me. I stood there in amazement, I couldnt believe it. It was below 0 when I got there.
Most people think heat pumps stop putting out heat at some number usually 32 degrees but this is not the case. The truth is in the past heat pumps were sized to the cooling load, of course they were otherwise they would have been to big to dehumidify.
Without looking I would assume somewhere below the Mason Dixon is where the the heat gain and loss are pretty much equal. Today we are no longer bound by these rules, we can size the heat pumps for heat load on design day and in the summer they will just modulate down to the proper size for dehumidification. Daiken even makes a unit , the Quaternity that turns the top half of the evaporator into the tail end of the condenser so dehumidification can take place without temperature change.
Of course for many of us warm water aficionados the ideal system is a air to water heat pump, they just are having a real problem releasing those systems here.
Daiken has the Altherma but Fujitsu and Mitsubisi plus several other are making and selling these things all over Europe. I believe one of the biggest problems is they usually stop at 130 degrees which makes them only suitable for low temp radiant systems or revamped low temp baseboard systems, something we dont have enough of to make it profitable. Just Google water to air heat pump and you will see them all as your directed to a European site.
I personally have come to the conclusion that these are the future, after being fooled again with the promise of cheap fossil fuel...Propane and after feeling the wrath of some of my customers who are now paying 4 dollars a gallon because of some fake shortage. Only electric heat can be created by the end consumer using photovoltaic and with the newest microinverter panels it can be done reasonably over time.

Deionized water

@ February 19, 2014 12:30 PM in How serious an issue is water quality?

I guess it all depends on the quality of the water to begin with. If you have a system with 300 gallons of water and 20 grains of hardness it would probably be prudent to remove the hardness but using a water softener would introduce a substantial amount of salt to the water which also harms stainless steel on the other hand using the water straight would introduce  close to 3/4 lb of calcium.
If you have a system with 30 gallons of water and 10 grains hardness its going to leave you with less than 20 grams hardness in the system.
De-ionizers are quite common for car washing and fish tanks, both 2 tank and mixed bed units and everyone on YouTube has a way of regenerating them.
I think that it is a good idea to isolate the boiler and install flush valves like we do on tankless water heaters and clean the exchanger while we do the yearly service.
As far as rusting pumps, I cant say I really ever had that trouble.

Problem with wireless stats

@ February 3, 2014 4:19 PM in go wireless or not

is they take batteries. Several times this year I had to give a service charge to people who just forgot to check their batteries. I wish the change battery was a bright flashing light instead of just small print.
Anyway, by running a common to a wired stat you dont need batteries and its one less thing in your life that will catch you at the worst possible time.
Just a thought

Oversized boiler

@ January 11, 2014 11:11 AM in Oversized boiler

I went to look at a job that was put in a few years ago, its got everything, cast rads in the old section, baseboard fin and radiant in the new. Complete disaster!
The boiler was installed a few years ago also, Burnham cast iron 170k ,its about a 100k over sized. Question is ...How do you guys feel about removing burners to down fire this beast. PROS...CONS AND TECHNIQUES ?

FlashShield vs Counterstrike

@ January 7, 2014 7:20 PM in FlashShield vs Counterstrike

Question for those using these piping systems. I know Gastite FlashSield the fitting must bite into the polymer coating and contact the aluminum layer but I am unfamiliar with Tracpipe Counterstrike.
Must it also bite into the plastic covering or is the covering stripped back beyond the fitting?

Reading PA

@ January 7, 2014 8:16 AM in Did someone say Design Day?

Its 0 degrees.

Navien would like to see the horizontal

@ December 29, 2013 8:39 PM in Navien boiler

penetrations 12 inches apart and then a 90 turned down on the air and terminating 12 away horizontally.page 41 http://www.navienamerica.com/__DATA/ProductDocument/2013/4/3/Navien%20CH-ASME%20Installation%20Manual_20130404.pdf CH-ASME Installation Manual_201

That being said, unless your getting big snows that are blocking the vent, I doubt that is your problem.
If you open the front of your ch you will see a removable screen on the air supply pipe. Take a look at it and make sure its not blocked.
The Navien air pipe is open to the boiler enclosure, it is not directly connected to the blower assembly. It uses the enclosure as a plenum. This type of setup makes the system much less sensitive to pressure imbalances.
If you are having error codes thrown without snows literally blocking the vent I would look a little deeper elsewhere.
One other thing I would like to point out, if you are using the Navien CH on a high temp system like baseboard or radiators you must use cpvc schedule 80 or PP venting. Looking at your pics, you have neither.
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