Tim McElwain
Joined on August 17, 2009
Last Post on May 25, 2012
Recent Posts
Question of Qualification
@ April 10, 2012 3:50 PM in Oil/Gas Consulting and Training
Some have questioned my qualifications to teach gas heating and related equipment.No I do not have a doctorate, masters in education. I do have a bachelors degree in business.
I have been involved in this business believe it or not since I was 9 years old and I am now 72 years old.
Without boring everyone with the rest of my qualifications I did not come from the oil industry but I am more than qualified to teach oil controls, burners and combustion (did so with Honeywell when I worked with them). Some from the oil side who may be getting into teaching gas I am sure if they really search it out will find there is a lot more diversity in the gas heating business which adds somewhat to its complexity. I feel I am more than qualified to do this teaching to help my friends from the oil side to diversify there offerings to their customers should it be needed.
What do you need
@ April 10, 2012 3:41 PM in ENERJET BOILER
for parts? Sometimes what you need is generic to other brands.Too much gas and oil
@ April 10, 2012 11:13 AM in Too much gas and oil
is it a good thing or a bad thing? Gasoline actually went down this AM just not at the pumps!Experts: Industry needs to slow down drilling as gas supply swells
Experts are advising oil and natural gas drillers to scale back production as the country's natural gas supply continues to swell -- potentially causing natural gas prices to nosedive. "They've gotten way ahead of themselves, and winter got way ahead of them, too. There hasn't been enough demand to use up all the supply being pushed into the market," said Jen Snyder, Wood Mackenzie's head of North American gas. If the U.S. stays on its current path, Bentek Energy estimates that the country's storage facilities would reach their full capacity by Oct. 10. [u][color=#0000ff]Daily Guide (Waynesville, Mo.)/The Associated Press[/color][/u] (4/9)
What next
@ April 10, 2012 11:06 AM in What next
Hands-on Control of a Transparent Computer
The form of the personal computer has not changed dramatically since its introduction more than 30 years ago. This video presents a new kind of computer developed at the MIT Media Lab that can open up into a range of positions for the user's convenience. Its [u][color=#0000ff]transparent monitor[/color][/u] allows the user to control icons on the screen in entirely new ways.
More from [u][color=#0000ff]Display Technologies[/color][/u]…
Congratulations Dan and Mary Ann
@ April 9, 2012 12:23 PM in My Easter present
a great Easter present all the way around.So Dan another wedding coming up you better sell some more books!
The valve is an old
@ April 9, 2012 12:20 PM in Problems with old Janitrol boiler
Series 10 Honeywell valve which has really done its duty.I need to see pictures of some of the other controls so I can identify them and give you some direction to go. I for example do not know if the pilot at some times was converted over or what the reset actually does in your sequence of operation.
There should however be one switch that shuts of all power to the system so that is off some concern.
I am glad to try and help you but some pictures would help.
Well I find this very interesting
@ April 9, 2012 11:26 AM in Thinking about a new vehicle for your business
to say the least!No I do not have stock in CNG, in fact I do not have stock in anything. I might add that just so we understand most CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) is actually produced by some of the oil companies that were mentioned.
My purpose in posting this was as it always is to educate my friends who post here. As always read and learn but the decisions are always up to the individual. I am not promoting and particular agenda when is comes to saving energy or the environment. Just want to educate folks so they can make sound decisions without involving politics.
My stand here and on all the other sites I participate in is to steer clear of politics and religion. Now it is not that I do not have an opinion because I surely do but this is not the forum for those things. As for religion I am an ordained Pentecostal minister saved by the blood of Jesus and filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. That is just who I am but I refrain from preaching here as it is just not the place. I try to let my light shine.
So "A Boiler Fire" whoever you are I have no agenda one way or another just trying to educate folks because that is what I do in my training center and on the Internet and most of it is free other than my seminars. Fell free if you want to discuss this privately to send me an e-mail.
Yes Henry you are correct I did
@ April 5, 2012 7:11 PM in boiler venting
not really look at the pictures that closely. The vents need to be relocated so they are not firing at one another, that is also a code violation in the USA.My recommendation is
@ April 4, 2012 7:07 PM in Steam Oil to Gas Conversion - which boiler?
to stay away from atmospheric gas steam boilers and go with an oil steam boiler then install a power gas conversion burner, much more efficient than atmospheric gas. I have put in over 3,500 gas conversion burners so I know of what I speak.They fall under
@ April 4, 2012 7:02 PM in boiler venting
the ANSI Z83 standard for Industrial Boilers and do not need draft hoods, barometric they develop sufficient power to vent without assistance. This is typical for many industrial boilers.I will see if I can find the actual code section in Z83 for you and print it here, IF I can find my Z83 code???
Those rules for
@ April 3, 2012 10:41 PM in Thinking about a new vehicle for your business
CNG and Propane are being discussed, in particular President Obama is a big advocate of alternative fuels for vehicles and is having the tunnel and other rules looked at.No RV's can't go through tunnels.
Cost
@ April 3, 2012 10:37 PM in Thinking about a new vehicle for your business
Save money by driving a CNG vehicleOne of the initial reasons for me to buy a CNG car was the cost savings. Here is a little calculator that will estimate your cost savings in a typical year in driving a CNG car vs. a regular gas car. The $0.99 cost per gallon of the CNG is if you are using a [u][color=#0000ff]Phill[/color][/u] station. The cost of an oil change is in there because a CNG car needs oil changes about half the time of a normal car, saving you money. Fill in the values with your numbers and click on Calculate Savings to see your Annual Savings. You could save even more than this calculator shows since the Honda Civic, the most popular natural gas vehcicle on the market is most likley more fuel efficient than what you are driving now. Daily commute: miles
Mileage: miles per gallon
Normal gas cost: $ per gallon
CNG cost: $ per gallon gas equivalent (GGE)
Oil change cost: $
Annual savings: $
Annual savings: $
CNG Vehicles
[u][color=#0000ff]Honda Civic GX[/color][/u] - This is the only natural gas vehicle that is currently in production and for sale to the general public. At the moment, it is only available in New York and California. You can often buy them used on Craigslist (try the Los Angeles, Orange County or San Francisco areas)
You can search craigslist for CNG related items using this google search button. Type in "CNG" or "CNG Cars" to search Craigslist.
Using the new EPA estimates for fuel efficiency, it gets 24 mpg in the city and 36 mpg on the highway. (Using the old estimates it was 30/38.) There is a [u][color=#0000ff]$4,000 tax rebate available[/color][/u] for purchasers of this car. Note that is a tax rebate, not a deduction, so you get the entire $4,000!
In California, the Honda Civic GX also qualifies for the [u][color=#0000ff]Clean Air carpool stickers[/color][/u], allowing you to drive solo in the carpool lane. This is a great benefit for those commuting in congested areas.CNG in the news
This is not a comprehensive list of news sources about CNG cars, but just the ones that I thought were particularly noteworthy.
I worked for a public utility
@ April 3, 2012 2:02 PM in Thinking about a new vehicle for your business
(Providence Gas Company) and one of the vans I drove was a converted to Propane vehicle late 1960"s and it was terrible, the fuel lines used to freeze up and other problems. later I drove a propane fueled Ford Van dedicated from the factory for Propane and it was fantastic. Then later in the 70's, 80's and 90's I drove a CNG Ford Van and then later a Ford car all running fantastic on CNG. The fuel hookups have drastically improved at this point. There is going to be a trade show with Autogas vehicles on display this Friday in Cranston Rhode Island. It is really the way to go for the future. The maintenance costs are drastically cut and we had one van they purposely ran for 30,000 miles without an oil change and it had no damaging affect whatsoever. I actually bought one of the CNG/Gasoline vans when the gas company got rid of it and I sold it later with 250,000 original miles (not counting the idling time as it was a service van) with the same engine. They converted it back to just gasoline for me when I bought it as there were very few places to fuel up the CNG back then. The fella I sold that van to now is still running it with some minor engine repairs it has over 300,000 miles on it.Thinking about a new vehicle for your business
@ April 3, 2012 10:24 AM in Thinking about a new vehicle for your business
- Propane autogas is becoming more common in U.S.
The use of propane autogas as fuel for vehicles is gaining popularity in the U.S. as more fleet operators convert their fleets to autogas, according to this article. About 200,000 of the 15 million autogas vehicles around the world are operating in the U.S., Alliance AutoGas said. Propane autogas is also more accessible than gasoline blended with 85% ethanol, according to the Department of Energy, with 2,670 autogas pumps installed across the U.S., compared with 2,498 E85 fueling stations. [u][color=#0000ff]DomesticFuel.com[/color][/u] (4/2) 
Keep screwing down until you see a change in the flame
@ April 2, 2012 7:44 PM in cannot adjust pilot flame
you may have to screw down more than one or two turns to see the change.The valve is okay just a little over-sized as the VR8200 is a lower input gas valve but no harm done.
The pilot should hit the upper 1/2 to 3/8 of the thermocouple and the tip should be a "dull red" not "bright red".
Read the following as it will help you with understanding thermocouples. You definitely should not have to change them that often.
PROCEDURE FOR TESTING
THERMOCOUPLES
I am often asked about troubleshooting a thermocouple on gas systems. This will be a permanent reference that will give a step-by-step procedure.
A thermocouple is a device used to satisfy pilot safety on many 24-volt gas systems. The thermocouple is a device made up of two dissimilar metals. They are joined together at the tip (Hot Junction). When heat is applied to that hot junction a small millivoltage is created. This develops because of temperature difference between the hot junction and what is called the cold junction. The flame has to envelop the upper 1/2" to 3/8" of the thermocouple and the tip should glow a "dull red". If the flame is adjusted to a sharp flame it will glow "cherry red" this will cause the tip to be welded and eventually the thermocouple will fail. The flame should be adjusted to a soft blue flame, not roaring or lifting. The normal millivolt output is 25 to 35 millivolts, on some you may even get up to 35.
The other part of this safety pilot system is the electromagnet (power unit). It is if you will the LOAD and we can say the thermocouple is the SOURCE. The electromagnet is made up of a coil of wire and "U" shaped iron core. When the thermocouple is heated and the millivolts generated the coil will be energized and create a magnetic field. The magnetic field will cause the "U" shaped iron core to be magnetized; it in turn will hold open a seat allowing gas to pass through.
When this system malfunctions it typically causes the pilot to go out and the gas will not flow. The first thing that should be done when arriving at a pilot outage situation is to do some visual checks.
1. IS THE PILOT LIT?
2. IS THE PILOT CLEAN? (NOT YELLOW)
3. IS THE PILOT HITTING THE UPPER 1/2 TO 3/8 OF THE THERMOCOUPLE?
4. ARE CONNECTIONS TIGHT?
5. IS TIP DAMAGED?
6. IS THE COLD JUNCTION BEING HEATED BY THE PILOT OR MAIN BURNER FLAME?
Once those things are addressed it is a good idea to take some millivolt readings. It should also be mentioned that many times it is the policy of some to replace the thermocouple on a call and clean the pilot. It is not a bad thing to do, however it is statistically about 85% of the time it is the thermocouple giving the problem. It is the other 15% of the time that taking readings can solve other problems.
You need a multimeter with a DC volt scale, as the millivolts generated are DC volts. There are four readings we are going to take they are
OPEN CIRCUIT - this is taken with the thermocouple disconnected and the meter leads attached to the outside of the thermocouple and the other meter lead attached to the tip of thermocouple. The pilot-on-off knob will have to be held manually to take this reading. This measures the output of T'couple the readings must be above 17 to 18 millivolts.
* CLOSED CIRCUIT - This measures the millivolts used by the coil in the electromagnet. A rule-of-thumb is this reading should be roughly half of the open circuit. It is taken using an adapter screwed into the magnet and the thermocouple screwed into the adapter.
CLOSED CIRCUIT LOAD - This reading is taken the same as the previous reading except the burner is now on. With a proper flame this reading should be about the same as the previous reading. With a lifting main burner flame or excessive drafts or chimney pull, this reading may reduce from previous reading (flame being pulled away from the thermocouple). With the cold junction being heated this reading may increase. If the "cold junction" is heated excessively it will break down.
DROP OUT - This is the final reading. It requires the pilot to be blown out. It measures the ability of the magnet to hold under reduced MV input. A good unit should drop out below 6 MV's - normal is 1 to 2 MV's. The allowable "drop out" time is 180 seconds yes three minutes. It is more likely to be a minute and half to two minutes. There will be an audible "click" when the magnet shuts down.
* THE CLOSED CIRCUIT READING REQUIRES A SPECIAL ADAPTER THAT SCREWS INTO THE MAGNET ASSEMBLY TO ALLOW CONNECTION OF THE METER. AN ADAPTER CAN BE PURCHASED FROM ANY ROBERTSHAW DEALER THE PART NUMBER IS 10-038 THERMOCOUPLE TEST ADAPTER.
A normal set of readings
OC- 30 millivolts
CC- 15 millivolts
CC(load) -15 millivolts
DO- 1 millivolt
\
The best way to be able to diagnose these readings is to use MILLIVOLT CHARTS these can not be displayed here but I can provide them if you e-mail me.
Thermocouples from different manufacturers vary as to their dependability. The only thermocouples I recommend are made by Johnson Controls. The K15 and K16 series are the best. If you are having durability problems then use the K16RA, which is a nickel-plated high ambient or corrosive environment thermocouple. The Husky (K16) will fit most applications and for those that it does not the Slim Jim (K15) will fit.
To repeat the adjustment of the pilot flame to envelope the upper 1/2 to 3/8 of the thermocouple is important, the flame should be a soft blue flame not roaring which will cause the tip to glow a "dull red" versus "cherry red".
The combustion condition (excessive temperatures) in the chamber is also an issue and this will require a combustion test and draft measurement to insure that excessive temperatures are not being applied to the pilot. In some cases on water heaters it may be necessary to alter the pilot adaptation to get better quality performance. This however should not be done unless you have had proper training.
The possibility of the equipment operating in a depressurization environment will certainly lead to thermocouple failure. In addition if the equipment is flued together with a "fan assisted" furnace or boiler this can lead to problems. There are solutions to this also but training is required.
The thing that I find is often a problem is the environment in which the equipment is operating. Many times corrosive chemicals and airborne contaminants are being drawn into the air gas mix and a chemical reaction takes place. This again requires attendance at a training session by a professional combustion person to help you to see the various affects this will have.
Last of all the failure to put all the doors and covers back in place on equipment. The failure to do this will cause an alteration in combustion air and the flame stability is affected.
The design of some equipment is also a problem. When there is high demand for heat (very cold weather) the temperatures that are created in the chamber have an adverse affect on the pilot and thermocouple system. The addition of the K16RA thermocouple can offer some assistance toward extending the life of the thermocouple in this situation.
Insufficient air for combustion and dryers operating in close proximity to equipment also lead to problems.
Last of all and this is not directed at any one in particular but just plain lack of service personnel and installers knowing what they are doing.
There should also be a combustion test conducted using an electronic analyzer.
My book "Circuitry and Troubleshooting" Volume II addresses many of the things in question here.
Power Gas Conversion Burner
@ April 2, 2012 3:17 PM in Power Gas Conversion Burner
In preparing for my upcoming class I was reviewing the ANSI Z21.8 1994 (Rev 2000) Installation of Domestic Gas Conversion Burners and discovered something I was not aware of.In the past the installation of a Gas Power Burner into an existing oil boiler did not require the chimney to be lined. If it was firing on oil and was not a problem it did not have to be lined.
The change to Part 5 PREPARATION OF EXISTING VENTING SYSTEM Section 5.1.1 states that, "the chimney passageway shall be examined to ascertain that it is properly lined."
The actual section is listed here:
PART 5
PREPARATION OF EXISTING VENTING SYSTEM
5.1 Chimneys.
5.1.1 Inspection of Chimneys:
a Before connecting a vent connector to a chimney and installing a gas conversion burner, the chimney passageway shall be examined to ascertain that it is properly lined, clear and free of obstructions arid shall be cleaned if previously used for venting solid or liquid fuel-burning appliances.
b. An accessible clean-out shall be provided. The deanoutshal1 have a tight-fitting cover and be installed so its upper edge is at least 12 inches (305 mm) below the lower edge of the lowest chimney inlet opening.
c. When inspection reveals that an existing chimney is not safe for the intended application, it shall ·be rebuilt to conform to nationally recognized standards, lined or relined with a suitable liner, or replaced with a vent or chimney suitable for the equipment to be attached.
5.1.2 Termination:
a A chimney shall extend at least 3 feet (91.44 cm) above the highest point where it passes through a roof of a building and at least 2 feet (60.96 cm) higher than any portion of a building within a horizontal distance of 10 feet (3.05 m).
b. A chimney shall extend at least 5 feet (1.52 m) above the highest
connected equipment draft hood outlet or flue collar. 1
I believe
@ April 2, 2012 8:59 AM in Peerless WV-05 conversion to gas
you must have WV-05-200 which can probably handle as low as 225,000 BTU's input as its lowest setting. I would definitely however run that by the folks at Peerless in the engineering department. If I were doing the job I would experiment with lower ratings which is typically against my normal direction which is to fire to maximum rated input in order to get the correct thermal efficiency out of the package. This is why a combustion analysis is so important so that the burner can be dialed in to the maximum efficiency.I would still have a heat loss done so we can match up as close as the boiler will let you get away with.
Think about cold spots in your dwelling and perhaps some base board in those areas to use up some of the excess BTU to your advantage.
Can you possibly lower the blower speed on the air handlers, I assume the air handler is so you can also have AC and typically the blower runs at higher speeds on AC, if possible lower the blower speed to a point that maintains a duct temperature between 105 to 140 degrees with the blower running. Your AC folks can help you with that. What is the location of the air handlers, is one perhaps in the attic?
Deeke
@ April 1, 2012 9:09 PM in Peerless WV-05 conversion to gas
What is the full model number of the Peerless? What Beckett burner is it presently using for oil?Peerless like a lot of burner manufacturers do not test their boilers designed for oil with gas burners. It is not feasible from a marketing standpoint typically in the past. That may change as they perhaps find that boilers with oil burners do not sell very well.
Carlin has however tested some burners which is why I asked for full model numbers. Carlin EZ can go to 275,000 BTU's and would probably be a great choice. I would still put it up to Peerless just to see if they may have recently had a change of mind.
As to derating is it because the boiler is still over sized at its present setting? Has a heat loss been done and a measure of radiation?
So you would need in Maine
@ March 31, 2012 4:10 PM in BIASI BOILER/Clearance
a hole through combustibles of 18 + 18 = 36" + the 6' flue or a total of 42" that is one big hole?Or did you mean a 6" with 6" clearance on each side for a hole 18"?
I posted this article
@ March 31, 2012 1:05 PM in Latest from Rinnai
to clear up some confusion about correct factory authorized venting on Rinnai units. It seems I still keep seeing PVC and CPVC which I tell contractors based on Rinnai (manufacturer) is incorrect for their package and is technically a code violation. One I saw was actually in a mechanical inspectors house! I was told that it was correct as Rinnai had tested and approved their units for PVC/CPVC, I simply asked to see the test results. This unit was also dumping condensate into a sump hole with out being neutralized. Don't do as I do do as I say I guess is the inspectors take on things.Latest from Rinnai
@ March 30, 2012 8:11 PM in Latest from Rinnai
They are now using InnoFlue which is produced by Centrotherm EcoSystem a polypropylene material.Rinnai Introduces Two Condensing Product Accessories at 2012 AHR ExpoCompany launches condensate neutralizer and dual pipe venting option for added installation ease
(PEACHTREE CITY, Ga. – Jan. 23, 2012) Rinnai Corporation, manufacturer of the No.1 selling tankless water heater brand in North America, is launching two accessories to enhance its condensing product lines at this year’s Air-Conditioning, Heating, Refrigeration Exposition (AHR Expo). The company’s new condensate neutralizer accessory removes acidity from the condensation that is produced by a condensing tankless water heater or boiler, ensuring that it has a neutral pH level in accordance with select state requirements. Rinnai is also introducing a dual pipe venting system for its condensing tankless water heaters that utilizes a 3-inch polypropylene pipe to provide installers and homeowners with increased placement flexibility and installation options.
“At Rinnai, we’re constantly working to identify new products and programs that simplify the sale and installation of our water heating and home heating units,” said Rinnai Vice President of Marketing Brad Sweet. “We brought the condensate neutralizer and dual venting option to market specifically to address the needs of installers that work with Rinnai’s condensing technology. The addition of these accessories helps to round out our portfolio of solutions for installers while ensuring the smoothest installation possible.”
CONDENSATE NEUTRALIZER
Rinnai’s new condensate neutralizer accessory provides installers with an effective way to eliminate acidity from the condensation that is drained from a condensing boiler or condensing tankless unit. The company introduced the easy-to-install feature because select states require condensate from condensing appliances to be treated before passing into a public sewer system. Rinnai’s condensate neutralizer works by running the condensation through a container filled with limestone media, which raises its pH level to make the liquid less acidic, resulting in neutral water that can be drained directly from the unit. Designed for both vertical and horizontal mounting, the condensate neutralizer’s user-friendly clear capsule design allows homeowners to see when the limestone media needs to be replaced. Additional limestone can be purchased from a Rinnai installer.
“The condensate neutralizer is quickly becoming an essential component of condensing product installations in many markets,” said Rinnai Product Management Specialist Tracy Young. “Because we expect the number of states requiring the neutralization of condensate to grow, Rinnai proactively introduced this solution to make acidity a non-issue for our condensing units.”
DUAL PIPE VENTING OPTION
Rinnai is also introducing a dual pipe venting option for its condensing tankless water heaters. The new system, which connects to Rinnai’s standard concentric vent via a concentric twin pipe adaptor, enables a greater variety of installation options by accommodating venting in tight spaces, such as between a ceiling and subfloor, and making raised terminations easier and less expensive. Each pipe is 3 inches in diameter, so the system is ideal for long vent runs, and because it allows for greater distance between the intake and exhaust terminations, the potential for condensation from the unit to freeze over the intake in very cold climates is virtually eliminated.
The new system’s exhaust pipe venting is a product called InnoFlue®, which is produced by Centrotherm EcoSystem and is made of the same polypropylene material that is found in Rinnai’s condensing concentric venting. With a maximum temperature rating of 230° F, polypropylene is specifically engineered and certified for use with condensing tankless water heaters. The new InnoFlue® venting offers the zero clearance to combustibles benefit of Rinnai’s standard concentric venting, a 10-year warranty, and positive fit and lock for secure joints without cementing or curing. In addition, InnoFlue® venting is 100% recyclable and earns points toward Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design® (LEED) certification because it does not use solvent-based primers and adhesives.
“Rinnai’s dual pipe venting system addresses many common installation complications and enables more homeowners to enjoy the benefits of our condensing tankless water heaters,” said Rinnai Global Product Manager Trey Hoffman. “By making condensing tankless technology available to a wider array of homes, we believe the dual pipe venting system will help expand our installers’ customer base.”
For more information on Rinnai, visit [u][size=12][color=#0000ff]rinnai.us[/size][/color][/u].
About Rinnai
Rinnai America Corporation, a subsidiary of Rinnai Corporation in Nagoya, Japan, was established in 1974 and is headquartered in Peachtree City, Ga. Rinnai Corporation manufactures gas appliances including tankless water heaters, a wide range of kitchen appliances and heating and air conditioning units. As the technology leader in its industry, Rinnai is the largest gas appliance manufacturer in Japan and is the No. 1 selling brand of tankless gas water heaters in North America. Annual corporate revenues, including those of its subsidiaries, are in excess of $2.5 billion. With a global perspective to create 21st century products for the home and business, Rinnai Corporation commits itself to safety and the pursuit of comfortable lifestyles. For more information about Rinnai and their entire product line, visit [u][size=12][color=#0000ff]rinnai.us[/size][/color][/u].
More Information
Katie O’Neill
three
(404) 835-4527
koneill@3atlanta.com
Suzy Bowen
three
(404) 835-4529
sbowen@3atlanta.com
The C75
@ March 30, 2012 7:42 PM in uei analyzer question
has an O2 sensor (good for two years) a CO Sensor (good for five years) the meter does not directly measure the following but calculates them electronically:CO2, Efficiency and Excess Air.
The variable on your readings could result from the following:
1. Failure to properly calibrate CO before using.
2. Failure to clear instrument after the last test
3. Failure to set the meter up in a clean air environment
4. Age of the CO sensors
Go over the written procedures for the meter and make sure everything is set up correctly.
This is a lower priced tester by the way so may not have the exact accuracy of a higher priced meter.
