Joined on August 17, 2009
Last Post on March 10, 2014
@ January 4, 2014 1:20 PM in UPC TG9S FurnaceThese units need serviced once a year. The condensate system needs to be flushed along with the secondary heat exchanger. A combustion analysis should also be done. I would suggest getting a service technician to take a look at your system.
@ January 4, 2014 1:05 PM in UPC TG9S Furnaceit been serviced and has the secondary heat exchanger been cleaned?
@ January 4, 2014 1:02 PM in Am Stand flame flutter. blowing cold airpressure gas area the time frame of problems says that at the high demand periods early in the AM everyone getting up and turning up the heat (high demand) and then in the evening everyone home (high demand) that the main system in the street is perhaps unable to handle the high load demand at those times. I s any one else on your street having the same problem?
I assume this is a system that is either spark ignition or hot surface ignition so it has to prove the flame once the burner is on. If the pressure is low the flame will not hit the sensor and insufficient microamps will be generated hence a shut down and re attempt will keep occurring.
That gas valve is a White Rodgers model 36J22-209 I will look it up and see if there is anything unusual about it.
Some pictures of the control boards in the units and gas valve would help. That along with the combustion air blower pressure switch arrangement.
@ January 1, 2014 6:13 PM in Am Stand flame flutter. blowing cold airyou start talking about your American Standard furnaces (twinned up) with a problem then all of a sudden it is the Alpine Boiler. If you are having problems with all the units then I would suspect gas problems. What is your location in the country? Is the gas to your house a low pressure system? You can tell that if all you have is a gas meter and no pressure regulator ahead of the meter.
A warning about checking gas pressures on high efficiency equipment do not use a water filled "U" gauge (manometer) use a digital manometer. This is true on all negative pressure gas valves.
Give me some make and model numbers on your gas valves and I will then be able to give you a little more insight into what they are and how they operate. If you have negative pressure gas valves they must be set by using a combustion analyzer and using the "throttle" control on the combination combustion air blower and the gas valve. Those valves do have a place to check pressure but they are European style test connections and 99 % of the technicians do not even know what they are.
It is also not a good ide to use any combustion air blower which is not specifically designed for your units.
It sound like you need to get someone who understands boilers and then a separate HVAC company for the furnaces.
@ December 28, 2013 1:25 PM in General Electric Gas Boilerby just using a vacuum to suck all the dust out.
Here is the problem, you said you adjusted the rod to get it to work. The rod sets the timing on the pilot safety and it should only be adjusted by someone who is familiar with the pilot system. The pilot is actually a differential pilot and by adjusting the rod you can circumvent the safety. In that case if the pilot went out you could have the raw gas pouring into the boiler with no ignition source.
I would at this time start thinking about a new boiler which will certainly give you much more efficiency than your present set up. The cost of any kind of retrofit for this system would be somewhat costly and that money could be better spent on a new boiler.
@ December 27, 2013 8:23 PM in General Electric Gas BoilerMy questions are:
1) Has anyone seen, heard of, or worked on one of these?
Yes I have worked on quite a few of these kind of systems in my 50 years of servicing gas systems
2) If I wanted to upgrade this bi metal standing pilot system to a more modern and safe system, what would i need to purchase (which gas valve, pilot assembly, thermocouple, etc)?
There are several options but that should be done by a professional.
3) The current pilot has a screen below it, and clogged with dust. How do I remove and clean this?
Give us a picture of the pilot if you can and then I will try and help you clean the screen when I know exactly what we are talking about.
This boiler has no other issues, and i'd like to keep it for now as I cannot spend the money for a new boiler right now.
@ December 26, 2013 6:03 PM in Smart ValveGeneration II control. The new valves should have solved the connection problem as they were changed due to that and a couple other problems on early valves. Generation I came out in 1993 and Generation II came in 1997 so anything today should be okay. The 24 volt HSI /pilot actually has a the same igniter sensor which has not changed and should be okay. The igniter/sensor portion of the pilot is field replaceable
@ December 26, 2013 12:39 PM in Smart Valveare these, if Generation I they have been replaced by Generation II. Generation III are a separate system using either Silicon Carbide Igniters on some, Silicon Nitride on others and some are using the 24 volt igniter for the pilot. For the most part it may be the volume of these that are out there on equipment as they were a big seller for Honeywell. It has been my experience that they are pretty reliable as a percentage of failure to the volume that are on equipment.
It might be a good idea if you are seeing a particular version (model numbers of the SmartValve would help) to contact Honeywell.
@ December 25, 2013 10:32 AM in Merry Christmas!for one purpose and that was die for our sins on the Cross at Calvary. It could not be done any other way. God Bless all today on this day of celebration of the birth of the Son of God.
@ December 25, 2013 10:29 AM in ChristmasSaviour is given, He (Jesus) is the reason for the season. May all who dwell here at HeatingHelp and their families have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Let the love of Jesus abound in the world this coming year. That can start with us let us love one another.
@ December 24, 2013 12:58 PM in AQ475temps you are mentioning it brings to question the design temps of this system. Sub zero temps are the worst scenario for equipment operation. It also is related to whether a heat loss was done at some time on this dwelling. Controls can only do so much but are simply reactive to temperatures and other factors. I would look at several things including insuring you are firing at the maximum design firing rate of the boiler (a combustion analysis will show this) and also the flow patterns of the system as far as circulation. Start with those and work from there.
@ December 24, 2013 12:46 PM in Combustion Air vs. Size of spaceI commend you for being interested enough to look beyond just the cleaning and try to find the cause.
Second in looking over the attached manual there are several necessary installation requirements which must be met. In addition to making sure there is adequate air for combustion, venting and chimney size are also important. If sufficient air is available, and draft readings will indicate that in all scenarios. Yes distance from the air source for multiple boiler applications can cause the so called last boiler to be starved for air. Tandem connections of boilers for venting can also be an issue. I would go back and review this entire installation to make sure all the requirements have been satisfied. In the end it may be necessary to provide mechanical means of supplying all the air needed for combustion.
It is not normal for boilers to be sooted up as you describe. there is definitely something wrong and keep in mind soot means carbon monoxide. You mentioned these being in some schools, I hope they have CO detectors installed and working. The school issue is more reason to pursue the investigation and find a solution.
@ December 24, 2013 12:25 PM in Lp ga oven stopped baking.interesting illustration of Ohms law, as resistance decreases amperage increases with voltage remaining constant.
@ December 24, 2013 12:22 PM in aire-flo gas furnace not reaching target temp, i have flash codeof the electronic control board? Does the unit have a fixed high limit? What is its maximum temperature rating? The fact that you had restricted air flow (plugged filter) would cause you to cycle on high limit. Replacing the filter and reducing resistance to air flow should solve the problem. Does the thermostat have a mercury bulb? If so it could be out of level which would cause issues such as you are having. The thermostat could also be out of calibration, a professional should be able to calibrate it. Did the heating/cooling tech you refer to actually look at your system? If not you may want them to come and service the unit as there could be other things wrong.
@ December 23, 2013 11:30 AM in Lp ga oven stopped baking.The igniter when cold has a higher resistance and as it heats up the resistance drops. This is used on gas ovens to allow the igniter to get hot enough (1800 degrees) to safely ignite the gas, The applied voltage (120 volts) in conjunction with the amperage will allow this to happen. As the igniter wired in series with the valve decreases in resistance it allows more current to flow (around 3 amps) which is the required amperage for the gas valve to open. The valve opens and the gas is ignited by the igniter.
There is a tendency on these systems to do the following, the igniter is glowing but the valve will not open so folks will replace the valve only to find it still does not open. The problem is as the igniter gets older it tends to not decrease in resistance and there fore sufficient current to open the valve is not available. The problem is that the igniter is faulty and needs replaced even though it still glows. An amp meter is a big help in diagnosing these problems as you should see 3 amps of current or higher if the system is working properly. No 3 amps replace the igniter.
This is the only gas system that has loads in series, the igniter and the valve.
@ December 19, 2013 6:10 PM in Gas fluctuationsystem with a regulator at the meter or is it low pressure? It sounds like a low pressure system as you had a static pressure of 8" W.C. Was the fluctuation evident on any other equipment?
What is the make and number of the gas valve?
@ December 19, 2013 6:04 PM in Combustion Testingride and go to full high fire for proper adjustment and measurement. Some will have you do a hi fire and also a low fire test, do what ever the manufacturer ask for. This will insure lets say with a 5 to 1 turndown that all steps are properly set up.
@ December 18, 2013 1:19 PM in Blower motor for Temco Pre-Vent Heater Model GSW 30-2you that the motor is no longer available. I have information (Manuals) on the Temco DSW 50-2 and the DSW 85-2 which used a double shaft motor and those motors we had to have rebuilt here locally in RI as Temco no longer had them available back 20 to 25 years ago.
It is too bad you threw the motor away as motors can often be rebuilt for a rather small fee.
@ December 18, 2013 12:55 PM in williamson steam boiler not working? Need helpthe T87 thermostats T87F-1849 or 1859, if so they have to wired a special way as they were designed to replace SPST and SPDT (Series 20 ) thermostats.
@ December 17, 2013 6:57 PM in High Efficiency Gas Furnacewith Surelite control boards from White Rodgers.
@ December 17, 2013 6:53 PM in Low level CO detectors?best choice. Because you have been to my classes George Kerr (owner of CO-Experts) will give you a discounted price. Any questions call me at 401-437-0557. The new 2014 version is good for seven years, it alarms at 9 PPM. Very good for elderly folks like me.