Joined on August 17, 2009
Last Post on December 6, 2013
@ September 21, 2013 6:59 PM in Mark Eathertonare okay. I just spoke with him on Friday and will be calling him again on Monday. He is just very busy with his new position with the Radiant folks.
@ September 15, 2013 7:31 PM in Pilot questionit should have the .018 orifice. If it is too large then adjust the pilot gas flow at the gas valve. Keep in mind all pilot gas on heating valves is on line pressure it is not regulated.
@ September 9, 2013 10:14 AM in Do I have enough gas, coming from meterwe spend considerable time on pipe sizing, pressure problems, carbon monoxide, gas safety, air for combustion, vent sizing etc. These are all things that are very much lacking in most trades training programs.
A very well know plumbing and heating contractor recently made a statement that when he went to a customers home and stepped inside he smelled a strong odor of gas. His immediate response to the customer was that his first priority was to "find that leak". I beg to differ his first responsibility to his customer and himself was to evacuate the premises and call the gas company. Even if he has a test instrument to measure level of gas there is a protocol which must be followed. These things are not taught in most trade schools the way they should be.
@ September 9, 2013 10:07 AM in Do I have enough gas, coming from meterthan it already is. Just use the tables, find out what you local utility suggests for allowable loss and follow all the steps outlined in the codes for pipe sizing including maximum demand, diversified loads etc.
Each contractor has to look at his or her particular situation as to what method they use.
@ September 9, 2013 10:02 AM in Do I have enough gas, coming from meterlisted in the codes does not have to be deducted from pressure it is a factor already built into the numbers in the tables. That is why the different tables and different values. Pipe sizing is based on those tables and the measured distance to each appliance. It is not based on supplied fuel to the structure as that could be 100 lbs pressure reduced to 6" W.C. (typical on most residential regulators). That versus the issue in most major cities in the northeast of an inner city cast iron system low pressure less than 1/2 a pound of pressure (14" W.C.). Those low pressure area are critical both to piping into the dwelling and also piping in the building. When I was with the utility I set a rule for all gas heating systems using a minimum 1" for piping. This was designed to overcome the winter time issues to some degree of low pressures in the mains, sometimes as low as 4" W.C.
@ September 8, 2013 5:18 PM in Do I have enough gas, coming from meterto size his piping for him just showing him some options based on what his total load is. Yes I used allowable loss of .3 which is what the utility up here recommends due to pressure problems in some areas.
We also do not know if this a high pressure area or a low pressure area we are talking about.
@ September 8, 2013 5:13 PM in Do I have enough gas, coming from meterplan of what you have my e-mail email@example.com.
Have the utility determine if the meter is sized correctly.
Find out what pressure the utility will guarantee you. In some areas it is only 5" W.C.
How do you want to pipe this Longest Run Method, Branch Method let me know.
@ September 7, 2013 8:25 PM in Do I have enough gas, coming from meterenough to handle 384,000 BTU's?
A Schedule 40 black pipe system with a .3" W.C. allowable pressure drop
1" 50 feet will handle 215,000
!" 30 feet will handle 284,000
1 1/4" 50 feet will handle 442,000
1 1/4" 30 feet will handle 583,000
@ September 5, 2013 11:18 AM in GasNetworks' 13th Annual Heating Professionals Fall Conferencewill have a booth, stop by and say hello. I look forward to seeing many of you.
It is my pleasure to participate at this show. I have been directly (28 years with Providence Gas) or indirectly involved in the gas industry (19 years owning and operating Gas Appliance Service Training and Consulting and the Gas Training Institute). We have many new manuals on Mod/Con equipment we have developed and will be showcasing those at the show.
Do not miss this show it is a great opportunity to see a lot of new equipment and get answers to those questions you have had about all this new stuff.
@ August 28, 2013 11:31 AM in Gas Conversion Burnersthan you work under everyday when you change controls or retrofit a system, replace an old obsolete pilot with a completely different one, The list of things we do which voids warranty and manufacturer involvement is vast.
@ August 27, 2013 1:45 PM in Gas Conversion Burnersin our business. That is why you need a good lawyer on call, a business plan, a company policy book, a good accountant and lots of insurance.
Early on I determined that my knowledge of boilers and furnaces in relation to operation, combustion etc was sufficient to get into the conversion business. It was a good way to make money on the side in the evening and on weekends.Upon the advice of an old timer I decided to pick up any warranties on equipment that existed at the time of conversion. I did that on every job that required it (some were already out of warranty). I never had to make good on one after over 3,000 conversions.
Jim Davis hit the nail on the head about some inspectors, most of them know very little about combustion, controls or gas safety. Most of the time I find myself educating them on jobs. Be polite and courteous and try to help the poor guys so they can help you.
As for these recent issues I would take it before your local AHJ and get a ruling once and for all in your area. In my area at least 10 conversions a week that I know of are going in and no problems yet with inspectors.
I would advise getting some training on installing these burners before you go at it blindly. Sorry folks have to pay big bucks for Z21.8 I would have given you a copy if you ask for it all you would have to pay is printing cost and shipping usually less than $5.
My next Conversion Burner 3 day class (with live firing) is October 1, 2 and 3 - 2013.
@ August 26, 2013 9:12 PM in Training on Gas HeatingWe will be conducting training on Gas Heating Equipment starting on Monday September 16 and running until Friday September 20. The classes are as follows
Monday Fundamentals of Gas Combustion
Tuesday Circuitry and Troubleshooting
Wednesday Hydronic Controls Circuitry
Thursday Gas Heating Electric Ignition Systems
Friday Gas Heating Advanced Electric Ignition Systems
Each day is $300 for a total of $1,500 for the week. That includes 8 manuals that we have compiled.
The seminars will be held at the the Gas Training Institute, located at 338 Metacom Avenue, Warren, RI from 8 AM to 4:30 PM each day.
Contact Tim McElwain 401-437-0557 or e-mail firstname.lastname@example.org or send check or money order to:
Gas Appliance Service Training & Consulting
22 Griffith Drive
Riverside, Rhode Island 02915
@ August 19, 2013 4:44 PM in W/M GV-90+GV series Gold Boilers with a heat reclaimer attached for condensing. Much the same thing Burnham did a while back with the Revolution Series II.
The same controls and operation as the Gold.
@ August 18, 2013 9:36 PM in conversion liability questionif your license covers you for this work then get in touch with me and I can help you out with different appliances.
@ August 18, 2013 9:32 PM in Tekmar Controlsputting together. I have pretty much covered all the other systems except Tekmar. The problem is there are so many options available that it would fill volumes. I wanted to narrow it down to a few of their systems that are typically used on residential heating, including two stage and mod/cons.
@ August 17, 2013 8:39 PM in Tekmar ControlsI am involved with conducting a survey and need some help from all of you.
What I am looking for is strictly residential use of Tekmar Controls. I am interested in the combinations that you have been installing on systems. I just need control numbers no piping diagrams or wiring needed, I will take care of that on my end.
You can post here or send to my e-mail email@example.com
@ August 9, 2013 12:38 PM in I need some instructional videos. YouTube? Mfgrs?that agenda sounds like about two weeks for me to do. You will really only be able to just do a very brief presentation on each subject say no more than 10 to 15 minutes. You will need good handouts for the techs to read up on after the session. An example I do a three day course on just Testing Design Gas Equipment and even that is not enough time. I wish you well.
@ August 8, 2013 10:42 AM in Gas Conversion Burnerswith much interest, waiting to hear comments from various folks. So far pretty much those who are actually installing the burners are the ones commenting. I want to sit down and really think about this subject once again. This came up back in 1970 when I was with the utility. A local inspector read the I and O manual from the manufacturer which stated that they were not liable for any alterations to their boiler and that all warranty would be voided. This prompted him to shut down a recently converted boiler done by the way by the gas company. I was not in management at the time but remember that a simple letter from the manufacturer was all that was needed. Simple enough but not always the case today with lawyers around. Forget the utilities getting involved with this as they want to stay friends with everyone and not make any waves. They are enjoying a heyday why spoil it now. They do not care much what gets put in as long as it burns gas.
I promise to get back on this subject, I just find now days it pays to think on things before commenting. You would be surprised who reads the postings here on HeatingHelp.
Quick solution contact boiler manufacturer before doing the conversion and get their approval. This worked recently for a homeowner calling a particular company and getting a letter back giving permission for a licensed qualified contractor to convert their boiler.
By the way there is a ANSI Standard for the Installation of Gas Conversion Burners it it is Z21.8 (Revision 2002).
@ August 8, 2013 10:19 AM in Is This Gas Installation Really Safe???the gas company would not put something in that is not safe. They are heavily regulated to say the least. There are many gas services entering dwellings at 50 to 60 PSI and then reducing down at the house regulator to 6" W.C. to 7" W.C. pressure. It is a very typical installation in high pressure areas. This from one who worked for a gas company for 28 years.
@ July 31, 2013 10:45 AM in Gas PressuresI wish a strong stand such as that would work. Perhaps with a small utility they may try to help the contractor somehow.
The big guys are not going to boost pressure anytime in these areas for several reasons. The most important being that increased pressure in these old cast iron mains can increase leak calls. Most of the bell joints and joints all leak, more pressure in the lines makes it worse,
We have so much gas equipment going in it is impossible to keep up. If the customer has gas in the house the installer just goes ahead and installs gas equipment. If the meter is sized large enough already for the load and the pressure in July and August is good install away. Come January you will find out if your calculations are correct. We also have boilers and furnaces being changed by some friend or relative on the weekend and nobody knows anything about that customer being added to the already strained infrastructure.
Here I go again, the professional contractor who does everything right ends up sometimes the loser in these situations. He has a license, he pulls permits, he does a professional job. The job he just put in was to the last house on the street to get gas. Come January NO PRESSURE due to overload of the main pipeline and extreme demand in very cold weather. UPSET CUSTOMER blames the good guy!
@ July 31, 2013 10:33 AM in Gas Pressureshaving said that find out what you local utility can guarantee you. Keep in mind and this is what I was taught when I worked for the utility any measured pressure less than 4" W.C. to the heating equipment you have to leave it shut off for safety reasons.
If you can get hold of one use an accurate pipe sizing calculator ( I have an old one from Bryant) size the pipe to the pressure the utility says they can give you.
Just as a point about knowledge from fuel providers there seems to be a real lack of knowledge from their employees. I was at a recent meeting and a speaker from a provider was teaching all the contractors in the class about gas pressures, metering etc. I had to get up and leave as all the mis information was making me nervous. When I get nervous I tend to stand up and say things that get some folks upset. Better to leave than get into a pissing contest with the "gas experts". It is up to the contractor to have the knowledge today do not rely on anyone else, remember when the lawyers show up they will finally come down to the installer/service tech.
@ July 29, 2013 7:38 PM in Is a Chimney Liner necessary with a Gas Power Burner?2002 requires the chimney to be lined.