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Tim McElwain

Tim McElwain

Joined on August 17, 2009

Last Post on April 15, 2014

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What does

@ February 22, 2014 9:22 PM in Tim; New IFGC Question

WSSC stand for?

Unclejohn

@ February 22, 2014 7:20 PM in Tim; New IFGC Question

Actually MySource was my Lennox distributor. They have basically stopped stocking the kits. I'm in the Washington DC area and I contacted my local code enforcement [WSSC] and was told they kits are only allowed on interior chimneys. DO THEY SAY THIS IS PART OF THE IFGC OR IS IT LOCAL? I ASSUME YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CHIMNEY LINER KITS? WILL THEY ALLOW "B" VENTS TO BE INSTALLED IN EXISTING CHIMNEYS?I have used them on all chimneys in the past. I have a customer who refuses to believe me when I tell her she has to line her chimney. She says she hasn't heard of that. I ask her what codes she has heard of and she didn't have a answer for that, but still doesn't believe me.My local enforcers say it is new and went into effect on Nov. !st last year.  ARE THEY STILL ALLOWING EXISTING CHIMNEYS TO BE USED AS A CHACE FOR CATEGORY IV EQUIPMENT AS LISTED IN MANY MANUFACTURERS INSTRUCTIONS?

The 2012 code is the latest code

@ February 22, 2014 1:50 PM in Tim; New IFGC Question

it will not change until 2015. I did however look up the latest meeting of the code  folks for the International Code Council 2012/2013 Code Development Cycle (Group A 2012) group A looks at International Fuel Gas Code and makes proposed changes to that code. The proposed changes to the 2012 edition did not show any changes for venting with chimneys.

Once again what is your source. I wish I had my 2012 code book handy.

Not sure exactly what you

@ February 22, 2014 12:54 PM in Tim; New IFGC Question

are referring to. It is a fact however when you look at charts in IFGC in chapter 5 section 504.3 (6a) thru 501.3 (7b) depending on local 99% winter design temps that appliances many times can't be vented into those chimneys, you will note all the NA in the charts. I am not sure what affect that would have on kits which install venting inside existing chimneys using them as a chase. I do not have my latest version of IFGC in the office it is at my training center. I am looking at 2009 version however I do not think any drastic changes have taken place.

See Figure B-19 for your temperature zone as applied to those charts.

How did this come to your attention?

The pictures show are of a

@ February 21, 2014 1:57 PM in Old gas boiler using a lot of gas. How to adjust temps?

L8148E Aqua-stat Relay. This relay has a Hi-limit only which is probably set for around 180 degrees. It is what is called a cold start system. What should be happening (unless there are some controls we are not seeing) when the thermostat calls the burner and circulator should come on together and run until the call for heat is satisfied. If the system goes off on limit while the call for heat still exists the circulator should keep running.

I am located in RI and if you are interested have someone who could look at your system. Call me at 401-437-0557.

Sterilazation does not take

@ February 20, 2014 8:04 PM in how prevalent is this?

place at 140 degrees, it has to be above 180 for that to happen. Legionnaires also has to do with keeping the water moving along with the magic temp of 140 degrees. Almost all bacteria harmful to humans dies at 140 or higher.

Another point to consider here which it has been my experience on the service side of this subject has to do with cycling and the fact that these systems are not designed for the cycle rate of most boilers. The result is the life of them is drastically shortened.

I have had many a

@ February 19, 2014 8:49 PM in Tom Schwarz has passed away

back and forth with Tom, he was always looking for answers and many times also helped me with answers. I will miss him and TGO Mechanical. Rest in peace my Brother.

Replace the Taco SR 504

@ February 19, 2014 12:15 PM in How to replace a transformer on a Taco SR 504

but first find out what caused the transformer to go.
OR
mount an external Honeywell AT150F circuit breaker transformer and after disconnecting the wires from the SR 504 transformer connect it up. The circuit breaker will prevent burning out another transformer just in case you have a short. Just leave the old transformer in the SR 504.

The two yellow wires

@ February 19, 2014 12:10 PM in need help replacing boiler zone valve-wiring

go to the motor in zone valve - one lead from the transformer is typically connected  to the one "yellow" - the other wire from the transformer should go to the thermostat - and the other "yellow" to the other wire from the thermostat.

The "reds" are your end switch for the zone valve and go to TT on the relay.
SO
on the V8043F the two wires from the transformer go to TR and the two wires from the thermostat go to TH and the two wires which were attached to "red" go to the TT on the relay (if that is what you have) or to T and TV depending on the relay.

Save yourself a trip call me

@ February 18, 2014 12:21 PM in Steam/Water heat service in Providence RI area

at 401-437-0557 I live in Riverside RI and will give you the number of a local company which is very qualified to look at that system.

The answer to your question is

@ February 18, 2014 12:17 PM in Which chart for sizing vents.

the power burners installation instructions should give the size. That being said a conversion has always been a CAT I appliance the blower on the burner has nothing to do with powering the vent as its purpose is to pre mix gas and air before ignition.
Which chart for sizing vents.
but it really doesn't make sense they would be lumped with draft hoods since draft hood equipped appliances have much larger volumes of gases to vent due to the draft hood air entering the venting system WITH THE DOUBLE SWING BAROMETRIC YOU HAVE CONTROL OVER DILUTION AIR BUT THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE CATEGORY AS CATEGORY IS BASED ON SEVERAL THINGS SUCH AS STACK TEMP, EFFICIENCY, ETC.

  Does it change when it is pressure fired?  I suspect these are CAT 3 appliances.   IF THEY ARE THEN THEY MUST USE STAINLESS STEEL VENTING AND BE SEALED TIGHT. THEY ARE NOT THEY ARE CATEGORY I. LOOK UP THE FOUR CATEGORY'S AS TO ALL THE REQUIREMENTS.

The venting charts I have seen do not specifically call out CAT 1 for natural and CAT 3 for fan assisted, even in the codes. THAT IS NOT TRUE IF YOU LOOK AT NFPA 54 CODES YOU HAVE "NAT" FOR NATURAL DRAFT "FAN" FOR FAN ASSISTED (WHICH MEANS THE ONLY PURPOSE OF THE INDUCED DRAFT FAN IS TO OVERCOME THE INTERNAL RESISTANCE OFFERED BY THE SECTIONS OR HEAT EXCHANGER) THE PRESSURE AT THE BREACH IS STILL NEGATIVE. THEN THERE IS A COLUMN FOR "FAN/NAT".

You could install

@ February 17, 2014 7:10 PM in Adding automatic vent damper to old cast iron boiler?

another barometric or a neutral pressure point adjuster (flue restrictor). I have the specs for such a device.

According to directions

@ February 17, 2014 1:29 PM in Poly Pro venting....

for Poly Pro by Duravent no sealants or sprays are needed. See:
www.duravent.com/docs/product/l273_W.pdf

Are the horizontal runs pitched back to the boiler?

Actually the original vent dampers

@ February 17, 2014 11:21 AM in Adding automatic vent damper to old cast iron boiler?

back in the early 70's were all retrofits. Honeywell, Johnson, Flair and Effikal all were originally promoted as a retrofit. The utility I worked for installed many of them during that time.

The only problem today may be the fuse that is included in designed systems that blows on the first call for heat. This is so if the damper is disconnected from the primary control the system will not work. The blown fuse is not replaceable by the way. That is the safety.

ANSI Z21.8 does not allow

@ February 17, 2014 11:16 AM in Adding automatic vent damper to old cast iron boiler?

vent dampers to be used with conversion burners.

In order to get

@ February 16, 2014 5:43 PM in Automatic vent dampener

system to operate after vent damper has been activated and a fuse blows inside the primary control, relay, module what ever. Remove the damper from the flue and at the primary control pull the damper plug and  jump the two middle terminals on the receptacle on the control. Test every thing to make sure all safeties are okay. This is supported by a factory bulletin from Weil McLain. If you would like a copy I can make it available to you.

Correction to Field

@ February 16, 2014 5:37 PM in Adding automatic vent damper to old cast iron boiler?

Controls site for GVD damper www.fieldcontrols.com/gvd.php

Better yet

@ February 16, 2014 4:44 PM in Combustion analysis results question

drill holes through the front of the draft hood one for each section take individual readings and average them out. Seal them up after with high temp RTV sealant.

The yellow from the flame can typically be eliminated by adjusting the primary air shutter for a soft blue flame not roaring not lifting. Make sure all doors are in place when taking the readings.

Here is what I posted

@ February 15, 2014 9:02 PM in Single stage, two-stage and multi-stage, which one

in the other posting:
Jack and John I hear what you are saying.However here is the problem at least up here in the Northeast.

Most warm air systems have insufficient return air, and in some cases it is drastically under sized. This does not bode well for two stage systems unless perhaps they are the type that starts with high fire and then if no hi fire demand cuts back to low fire. The complaint on almost all the applications I have seen recently is my old furnace did not blow cold air the new one does. That of course could also be because we had  temperature off temp on fan and limit on the old furnace and the new one is time on time off usually 30 or 60 seconds much too soon.

The other issue and there are many more but I am busy and really do not have time to debate this subject. The installer never even does a heat loss and matches up to what ever was in the house to begin with. I have also had issues with motor failure on ECM motors with restricted air flow due to insufficient return air. then we have venting issues when side wall venting is not easily accessible and the list goes on. I will wait to see what others have to say. I must say this however that the same poor installation practices of many installers also shows up with warm air systems.[u][color=#0066cc]Reply[/color][/u] [u][color=#0066cc]Edit[/color][/u]

First question did you have the analyzer

@ February 15, 2014 8:57 PM in Combustion analysis results question

set for gas?
net stack: 265 F
THIS IS TOO LOW ANYTHING LESS THAN 275 IS A PROBLEM

CO2: 3.83
NORMAL FOR A TYPICAL GAS SYSTEM WOULD BE BETWEEN 8 TO 9.5 CO2. SO THIS READING IS WAY OFF

EFF: 80.1%
THAT NUMBER WITH THE OTHERS IS INSANE
O2: 14.1%
THIS MEANS THE EXCESS AIR IS 150 % OR MORE (YOUR NUMBER 182.7%) IS OFF THE CHART. SO SOMETHING IS DEFINITELY WRONG EITHER WITH YOUR TESTER OR THIS BOILER. NORMAL FOR O2 IS 4.5% TO 7.5% WHICH GIVES EXCESS AIR OF 25 TO 50 %.
ex air: 182.7%
CO: 10 ppm

CO air free: 20 ppm I  SERIOUSLY DOUBT THIS READING.

draft: -.0233

I would check the gas pressure inlet and outlet at the gas valve also clock the burner at the meter. There have to be air leaks or you are not taking the readings correctly. Do you have a draft hood on this equipment? Is the draft hood a part of the boiler or is it in the flue pipe?

I assume you are

@ February 15, 2014 2:04 PM in Honeywell Smart Valve problem

talking about a gas valve which is allowing gas to pass through the valve with no power applied. This is not a frequent occurrence but needs to be replaced as it is dangerous and the tech should have made your equipment inoperative.

Was this natural gas or Propane?

Did the tech remove all the wires from the valve when conducting this test?

Was the tech aware of the fact that Smart Valve does not have an internal gas shut off and should not be exposed to pressures greater than 14" W.C. about a 1/2 pound of pressure? The gas shut off is ahead of the valve somewhere in the gas line.

The fact that this happened on both furnaces makes me wonder if the tech knew what he was doing. I would get a second opinion.

The problem was with the pressure switch

@ February 15, 2014 1:21 PM in pilot relight control or gas valve?

on the original 36C White Rodgers gas valve. The pressure switch was installed to insure that the outlet pressure was 3.5" W.C, the problem was they failed and stayed open even though the pressure was found to be okay. White Rodgers came out with the EQSO resistor which was to be placed under the SPDT pressure switch attachment to the gas valve. The EQSO resistor was supposed to offer enough resistance to allow time for the mercury pilot to light, the flame boil the Mercury (400 degrees F or higher) and keep 24 volts still going through the switch to keep the pilot valve energized during the making and breaking of the SPDT switch. The problem with them was if you switched the thermostat on then off and then back on it would cause the system to delay on ignition. I nor the gas company I worked for at the time felt this was safe so we required White Rodgers to replace all the gas valves on equipment in our jurisdiction.

Hope that helps.
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