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Tim McElwain

Tim McElwain

Joined on August 17, 2009

Last Post on August 27, 2014

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Jim Wy what kind of

@ November 25, 2010 12:27 PM in testing a dc pilot sensor

system is this, I am assuming it is a commercial boiler system? Is that correct? Give us some control numbers so we can give you correct information.

I should have read this

@ November 25, 2010 12:20 PM in Honeywell Controls making me KKrazy!

posting a little more carefully. Good answers Steamhead, I was trying to make it as simple as possible without taking into consideration the actual controls involved. That along with the need to insure limits being wired into the circuit.

Thanks "Dave" for the very to the point e-mail, I want you to know I welcome everyone here to the Wall and I do not control what the host does here.

Take the #5 and #6 terminals

@ November 24, 2010 10:22 PM in Honeywell Controls making me KKrazy!

on the R845 (dry contacts) and wire to TT on the R4184G.

If you still have your old T87F put it

@ November 23, 2010 9:25 AM in How to ID a millivolt system

back it was one of the most reliable thermostats Honeywell ever made.

I must say I am getting

@ November 23, 2010 9:22 AM in I want to let everyone know I am recovering

the greatest care from the VA, they are very thorough and I find most caring people. It is also a great opportunity to be with the many who have faithfully served our nation in the armed services.

I know with God's, mercy and healing touch I will come through this. It has been a crazy merry go round over the last 10 or so years with losing my job, a heart attack, several bouts with cancer and now this but I think I am truly a survivor. I thank you all for caring. This place has a special place in my heart and has since I found Heating Help many years ago. I cherish the privilege to post here and perhaps share some little of what I have to offer. I have truly learned more than I have given.

An update, back to the VA today

@ November 22, 2010 6:43 PM in I want to let everyone know I am recovering

as I am having vision problems. In fact I am having a tough time seeing to type. Hopefully it will clear up. It has also affected my hearing so ENT appointment tomorrow.

Give me the numbers

@ November 22, 2010 6:39 PM in How to ID a millivolt system

from the gas valve. If it is a Honeywell powerpile (750 Millivolt) system it will have an s in the numbers say like a VS-820 valve?

Are you the same person with the question about T8775 thermostat?

Many times just oiling a motor is all that

@ November 22, 2010 9:58 AM in WEIL MCLAIN BLOWER MOTOR

is needed. I would suggest letting it go and see if it will continue to run. My experience is that most of the time it will continue to run.

As for gas equipment never needing service or annual maintenance that has never been true. In my 28 years with a large gas company we encouraged our customers to have an annual check up done on their equipment. It is even more the case today as the high efficiency equipment needs service even more than the old equipment. There should also be a combustion analysis done at the time of annual service.

I would have to check the

@ November 21, 2010 3:13 PM in barometric damper

specs on that particular application.

Let me say however there are some commercial applications which do not require a draft hood or barometric by design.

The barometric is able to automatically compensate for excess draft or deficiencies in draft to give a balanaced draft for poper operation. Some commercial boilers devlop a good draft and sustain it without any help.

These pilots are actually

@ November 21, 2010 3:07 PM in Propane Fireplace

ODS pilots (Oxygen Depletion Safety) which means that if the level of O2 goes below 18% they will go out. From what is being described the system needs serviced by a professional from hopefully a propane company who also understands the fuel system.

When cleaning the pilot DO NOT stick any metal objects into the orifice for the pilot. Some are actually a small piece of Ruby and it will shatter.

What I am saying is the pilot is probably doing its job to safely shut off the equipment.

There should also be a combustion analysis done on the equipment.

Most manufacturers

@ November 21, 2010 2:59 PM in New Knight design

are fully aware of what they can perhaps do with a product from testing done in their R& D labs.

Getting approvals and certifications is another animal and protest is not what they want to do. Remember this is about getting a product out on the market for sale. In that also being able to compete with other OEMS and what they have to offer.

Space does not permit getting into the whole thing here but it is much more complicated than just making a change to a code or standard for equipment. All of the safety and other perimeters have to be proved over and over again.

In fact recent changes are going to make certification even more complex as some products have gotten out in the market place making claims which later after testing proved to be incorrect. So they tighten up the process.

I think we all need to be patient and it will all come together. We are still really new with all of this Mod/Con business and I am sure there will be strong inroads into expanded turn down ratios in the future with new and even more creative burner design and concepts like Lambda Pro to guarantee safe firing and efficient operation at the same time.

EPA would be less likely to be concerned than DOE would with your point about cycling.

It would behove everyone to do a little research into the certification and approval process on gas and oil heating equipment. That and if you want to spend a bunch of money actually get a copy of the ANSI standards which ANSI sells for hundreds of dollars. Example Z21.8 is $460.

I think they really do not want anyone to know these things.

ANSI Standards are very very slow

@ November 20, 2010 2:29 PM in New Knight design

to change.

The standards that determine turn down are related to older atmospheric boiler requirements. All boilers and furnaces by the way are tested for burner turn down test. There are two criteria that can be followed.

One is that the unit has to fire safely at 1/3 of input. Now that is actually not one third of say the BTU input but 1/3 of the outlet gas pressure setting say 3.5" W.C.roughly about 1.16" W.C. The burner under 400,000 must light safely within 4 seconds or less to pass that test. This also affects two stage gas systems in the the first stage must usually equal or exceed 1.5" W.C.

On some step opening gas valves it may go slightly lower to say.9" W.C.

The other firing option has to do with a base figure considering 100,000 BTU's at 20 % of operating BTU or around 20,000 as a minimum firing rate. Burners must pass both tests.

I am over simplifying it because it also has to do with burner design and air to gas ratio and how that is accomplished.

Typically when certification is taking place the OEM has some leeway with the testing folks to prove that they can meet all the safety perimeters and still get the special performance standard for their particular piece of equipment.

As has been for many years it takes along time for the standards to catch up with technology. The technology is moving so fast in the past few years it makes it seem even more difficult.

The combustion side of what we are talking about can get very complex and as we have seen not every burner/combustion blower design proves to be able to function without some difficulty.

Do you have

@ November 20, 2010 10:11 AM in vision 1 problems

the Vision 1 manual first of all?

What are the control

@ November 19, 2010 7:04 PM in Modulating Honeywell pressuretrol without a differential?


I want to thank everyone for your

@ November 19, 2010 10:40 AM in I want to let everyone know I am recovering

concern and prayers. I am feeling a little better today, not as much pain although I am heavily medicated. I look terrible as my entire right side of my face is one big sore. Oh well at my age who cares.

Once again as always this forum is one of the most caring places I have ever frequented. I thank you all.

The answer is a big NO

@ November 19, 2010 10:35 AM in Burnham boiler conversion to natural gas

get the kit from Burnham and know that you have everything you need to do the job right.

Next have you ever done this before? If not hire a professional who knows what they are doing. Make sure you insist on having a combustion analysis done when the conversion is completed.

If you are going to service

@ November 19, 2010 10:29 AM in F/A furnace main burners quitting mid-cycle

Smart Valve a couple of things to have that will make troubleshooting easier are:

1. A spare Smart Valve Igniter Assembly Q3400A-1008

2. Smart Valve Flame meauring Kit Part # 395466

3. Smart Valve Input Voltage Test Harness Part # 396085

I also sell a complete guide to servcing and troubleshooting Smart Valve. Contact me at

The part number

@ November 18, 2010 9:17 PM in F/A furnace main burners quitting mid-cycle

for the Smart Valve Igniter Assembly is Q3400A-1008.

The Smart Valve has been replaced

@ November 18, 2010 9:13 PM in F/A furnace main burners quitting mid-cycle

as it is a SV9502 which is a Generation II Smart Valve.

There are checks that can be done even without the harness. What is the voltage coming out of the pin connector to the Smart Valve on the EFT output on the harness?

Try replacing the

@ November 18, 2010 9:08 PM in F/A furnace main burners quitting mid-cycle

Smart Valve Sensor/Rod assembly, it sounds like you are having a flame failure after it lights. When this occurs has the igniter gone out or is it still lit, that is the small igniter that lights the pilot?

You may need to have someone come with a microamp test harness to see what you microamp signal is doing. I would also hook up a combustion analyzer to see what is happening with the burner flame. There could possibly be a cracked heat exchanger.

I want to let everyone know I am recovering

@ November 18, 2010 11:13 AM in I want to let everyone know I am recovering

from a severe case of shingles and may not respond as quickly as I usually do.

I have had to cancel my entire schedule for a while as it is very painful and is located on my face. It has also gotten into my right eye and into my mouth and throat so I have trouble speaking.

I beg your patience with gas questions I will try to answer them when I feel well enough. Thanks for understanding.

Pod from

@ November 18, 2010 11:06 AM in weil mclain gv gold lockout problems

Weil McLain

Tim    Have him call our tech line.  800-368-2492  when the voice prompt comes on dial 101 and wait. You may have to leave a voice message. He'll get back to you within an hour.
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