Joined on August 25, 2009
Last Post on December 3, 2013
@ December 3, 2013 5:13 PM in Navien ch 240Btw chris I disagree about the condensate capturing of latent heat. That's the purpose of the down firing with the collector at the rear to reroute flue captured condensate to saturate the secondary heat exchanger.
For example similar in design to the tankless, they would not hit the 98% thermal- .97 & .98 EF the tankless is certified at.
What's left out of the equation above is the boilers actual fire rate and it's delta t. If fire rate is higher or set to overshoot set point higher, more heat (BTU) is transferred.
Anyways the AHRI certified ratings speak for themselves, it's not limited to 50,000 BTU's.
@ November 28, 2013 12:26 AM in Navien ch 240http://wholehousecombi.com
Bob, it appears you don't fully understand injection with primary/secondary.
Even if the secondary boiler pump is 5 GPM, that doesn't limit the system primary flow and BTU's
Note the Viessmann 130,000 BTU is limited to 6 GPM boiler flow as another example.
And the CH doesn't fire on a 20 DT, the new one is also adjustable.
@ November 17, 2013 4:54 PM in ViessmannThey were on the list but cancelled their booth space 2-3 months ago?
I thought no big deal what will they show, combi maybe?
But the other big changes make me think it's runs deeper
Take Wilo for example, they haven't given up and are showing recent promise for fitting in.
@ November 5, 2013 11:11 AM in Visio stencils?If you removed that check valve you have shown, and allow bidirectional flow between coil, tank and cold water line, you would potentially have a much higher domestic flow rate to leave the tank.
Right now your restricting DHW flow leaving tank to the coil, pipe and pump performance.
Lets say you have a 6 GPM tank demand. 3 would go through coil being heated, and 3 could back feed the tank to provide the 6 GPM domestic flow rate.
This is a common practice when applying tankless units with storage. If not done that way and the mistake is made often, it would not matter if the storage tank is 10 or 1,000 gallons, if it has to go through the tankless(s) units first, the DHW flow to the facility is restricted to tankless performance and its flow rate at a give rise/BTU
@ October 6, 2013 9:26 PM in Any concerns about Rinnai boiler?They are the ATAG brand and labeled For Rinnai
Rinnai imports their boilers and combis from the UK
The largest problem I see with them is there limited flow/high pressure drop of their heat exchangers. That and they are costly units.
@ September 7, 2013 1:27 PM in L8148E / Chronotherm 3 24V problemThere is no drawing with 2 zone valves using the aquastat relay for power because you shouldn't do this. The aquastat isn't designed with the extra volt-amps to carry external zone valve motors.
Note figure 8 you reference shows a external transformer, and that is what you need too.
Trying to draw power from the aquastat relay will result in zone valves not fully opening, erratic burner/boiler operation, burned out transformer in the aquastat relay, any or all these situations.
@ September 6, 2013 12:57 PM in High efficiency gas boilersThat would be limited lifetime
Heat exchanger only, and if that failed its 40% of of list price in the 12th year. And it goes down fast from there. So if they can pass and prove all the restrictions such as proving maintenance and be original owners, single residence and a few other stipulations, they can chase the limited lifetime warranty.
Any sensible consumer faced with partial heat exchanger mark up cost, all the additional materials and labor would likely be smart and choose a new boiler.
Lifetime warranty? I think not
@ August 24, 2013 3:18 PM in The Hydronic Formula and it's limitationsNext article should be how unknowing self-made hydronic experts misunderstand boiler flow rate and btu firing rates and heat transfer attempting to apply the basic hydronic formula to mod con operation.
That 20 DT bang-bang operation is not how many 5 to 10 -1 turndowns actually function.
Time to reconsider heat emitter and DOE outputs.
Perhaps resurrecting and developing a redesigned "IBR" is needed?
@ January 2, 2013 7:03 PM in combi heat dhw gasGiven the per capita poulation, more combis are sold in Canada then in the states, so I dont understand your reasoning or statement Henry
Besides thats 3.3 GPM + showerhead in Canada? You guys that wasteful up there? Besides that I doubt anyone showers under 3.3 GPM of 140 degree water. You forgot the mix factors required.
All over the county users see lower water temps for a few months, its just a adjustment to lifestyle. Constantly you hear the argument of showering wont allow dishes or wash to be done. Whens the last time you started the washer and dishes while taking a shower first thing in the morning? Just sayin
@ December 31, 2012 12:35 PM in combi heat dhw gasMany tankless can provide more first hour water than tanks and smaller boilers with indirect tanks.
A tankless or bigger combi can deliver 5 GPM, that's 300 gallons per hour, what it can't do is give you 50 gallons in 6 minutes.
@ December 29, 2012 8:56 PM in boiler vs tankless HVACI bet you have a tough time explaining the BTUs using 35-40 DT when the unknowing are so stuck on 20 DT / 10,000 BTU per 1 GPM.
From what you write how easy is it to explain the boiler is more than a 55,000 BTU boiler to a contractor stuck on what he learned in IBR school 20 years ago?
@ December 29, 2012 12:17 PM in boiler vs tankless HVACBut, that would be directly connected, then many internal circulators are also limited to head factors besides flow.
If you use a external manifold or build a proper primary secondary, with an additional circulator then most those units will go over 100,000 +
No different than a Viessmann 100 boiler that is only 6 GPM heat exchanger flow but is over 100,000 DOE and IBR.
@ October 17, 2010 11:36 PM in Navien Heat Exchanger ProblemsChlorides are bad, seen it cause all major brands of stainless steel indirect water tanks to fail. On that note, I doubt eternal has anything better than the rest, especially at the water tube welds.
@ October 17, 2010 6:00 PM in hot water loop to 3rd flr off steam boilerA Taco 010 circulator doesnt have a chance when applied as a open system. It maxs out @ 10' head
Why does oil matter?.
@ October 17, 2010 5:51 PM in Heat loss calculations. who does em?If you do the work for the contractor, they never learn and will become to expect your free service all the time and quickly. How do you expect to do 20-30 a week someday?
You will burn out and and only anger your customer
@ October 11, 2010 2:26 PM in CPVC / PVC - boilersChris, the company that you work for sells numerous condensing appliance lines, including boilers that use PVC, so I find that hard to believe.
What about the HTP Munckin line listed on your product card?
@ October 11, 2010 11:09 AM in CPVC / PVC - boilersNo one here thinks that ULC-S636 PVC pipe and fittings is special right? because its not.
It is the same Sch 40 PVC, solid core pipe meeting ASTM (Plumbing) standards in the US.
In the summer of 2006 the CSA B149.1 Natural Gas and Propane Installation Code was amended to require all plastic venting materials to be certified to ULC S636. The code change is effective January 1, 2007. Provincial regulators from across Canada changed the B149.1 Code to make certain that all plastic vent systems are certified to a recognized standard.
It is still 65 degree C or 149 degree Fahrenheit.
That required rating label and orange sticker elevated the cost 4X the sister pipe for plumbing made on the same production line and out of the same stock. About the only thing they accomplished was to keep the clueless and cheap contractors from using foam-core or cheap import pipe and fittings, improper glue, ........
As with the earlier plexvent days, it wasn't really the product but the install, improper fittings, lack of support, improper assembly that caused the failures.
I can understand a distributor person passionately taking a stand against the use of PVC for venting, when they are attempting to compete with product that doesn't allow it. In the end they are attempting to justify the $300-$900 system cost difference of their product install.
We have vented furnaces, boilers and water heaters for 20 + years that way, (boilers being shorter) it will be a battle boiler manufacturers that have fought but have adapted and changed to in order to gain product acceptance and market share. You can argue that the European market doesn't use PVC venting, yet they also don't use it for plumbing either, so have no easy access.
@ October 10, 2010 1:24 PM in CPVC / PVC - boilersBoth Burnham models, the Alpine and Freedom allow PVC/CPVC
@ October 9, 2010 10:40 PM in BuderusPVC has been used as a venting material on furnaces since 1983, water heaters since 1986, overseas doesn't use PVC for plumbing so not available, ASTM only applies to plumbing, so ban it for venting? Not likely
You sound like a distributor or rep that has no product that vents with PVC
@ October 9, 2010 10:36 PM in Integrated HVACYour confused heating box is an actual product with no burner inside
@ October 9, 2010 9:51 PM in QVM 9-090W1-NG PARTS SEARCHThat's a Quietside right?
Go right to the manufacturer importer in california, they are in a name change stage, going to company named CoAire.
Good luck but older quietside units have no available parts.
@ October 9, 2010 5:58 PM in Navien in trouble with the DOEYou are wrong Chris
You see they are tested and hold certification from the largest most respected independent testing agency thus carry the CSA, CSSA stamp, that has certified combustion, thermal efficiency, along with Energy factor.
You remember when Energy Star got caught listing items such as a gasoline powered alarm clock?
That embarrassment, caused DOE to do some auditing, who partnered along with EPA with Energy Star. Can you blame Navien America, Inc., if the DOE sent the request for duplicate paperwork to Korea Navien?
FYI, Navien wasn't alone, there were about 15 companies involved at same time, most with similar reason. Most I hear with proof have had fines dropped or excused but who cares, once again a government agency has inflicted the damage.
Thus you Chris being a fairly new inside sales guy for a distributor or a rep agency, handing out this info without full info only serves as tool for your future embarrasment for lack of being fully informed.