Heating Help

Reverse Indirects ???

@ May 18, 2013 11:56 AM in Longest lasting indirects

How would a Reverse Indirect perform in the tough situations mentioned above?
WATER CHEMISTRY, Hard Water and/or High Chlorides
HIGH WATER TEMP, Expansion Stress

As a homeowner with a 10 year old Amtrol 80 gal Blue Bullet, I'm just thinking ahead to have something picked out.

Tim

c-90?

@ March 30, 2013 1:40 PM in Issues with & Replacement of Honeywell L8148E Aquastat

Rocky22,
I Cant find any reference to the c-90, possibly a v-90???
Anyway your description of the symptoms sounds remarkably similar to my problems with my slantFin SX-150. It used the same control (L8148E) and it drove me & my boiler man mad trying to find out why the boiler would intermittently not fire. It was suggested to replace the vent damper & gas control too, but I resisted until the failure was confirmed. Good call on my part, because it was a cold solder joint on the L8148E control relay. Its a DP relay, and the burner contacts were the problem, so the circulator would work ok. I chose to replace with the Becket Aquasmart (similar pricing, but features are included to save$$$) check it out,
http://www.beckettcorp.com/Product2/productdetail.asp?detailid=35
its a nice unit

Tim

Ok, thank you for the replys

@ March 11, 2013 3:42 PM in Vacation Home Heat Pump setting when away

So to be specific, we have a Trane XE1200 Heat pump, not sure if its TXV or not. I tried to look up info from internet, but was unable to find specific info for my system.

Is there any kind of 'rule of thumb' that apply's to heating costs at 55* vs 65* ???
eg: it costs 25% more to heat to 65 vs 55 or is it more like 10% increase

Thanks again for the input

PS: Unclejohn:
The long reheat time is why we use the BayWeb to get the house warmed up before we get there, along with power out & freeze up warnings. It saved us on a boiler out issue in Colorado Last winter. Without the BayWeb, we never would have known the aqua-stat had failed......... Until we arrived 3 weeks later

Tim

Vacation Home Heat Pump setting when away

@ March 9, 2013 11:43 AM in Vacation Home Heat Pump setting when away

Hi,
We have a vacation home in central Missouri. I have installed a Remote Internet Thermostat (Bay Web).
In the interest of economy, I keep the house at 55* when we are not there in the winter. This is a house we use year-round, but its an every 2 weeks we are there for the weekend type thing. I set the t-stat at 55* for 10 to 12 days then 70* for 2 days etc.

I am wondering if this is to low of a setting, my brother in law, has the house next door, similar size house, EXACT same size & model Trane Heat pump, he keeps his at 65*.

He reported that he installer told him to never turn the temp down past 65* because it was hard on the heat-pump,& was not as efficient as 65*. Now mind you, this was installed in 1999, & this is mid Missouri, where there are a lot of "old wise tails" we have the same installer, but that was never mentioned to me. The heating usage seems high to me, I can track it on the Bay Web, & our electric bill seems high also.
The unit didn't seem to have any trouble cooling the house last summer even though we had record heat for a long time, so i'm not inclined to think it needs servicing, so I thought I would pose this to the wall for help.

Thank You for your input

Tim

Aquasmart

@ January 17, 2013 11:06 AM in Honeywell Aquastat L8148E - Switching Relay

I did the failing Honeywell to Aquasmart conversion.
There is some trickiness in wiring the propitiatory vent damper harness into the aquasmart, but it can be done. It works great

Tim

BayWeb is my choice, but

@ January 1, 2013 1:29 PM in WiFi Thermostat

Ck out the recent wifi thermostat thread in the controls forum too.

Happy New Years:

Tim

ICM part #s ?

@ December 27, 2012 1:03 PM in Circulator post purge control

Any suggested ICM part #s for adding 120V post purge pump (Taco 007) control.
I see some of the units are limited to 1 or 1.5 amp & have voltage drop, not sure if that is too close to the max rating or if the voltage drop matters for the 4 min it will be ronning each cycle.

Thank you,

Tim

Bay Web

@ December 15, 2012 1:38 PM in wifi thermostats

The technology is definitely here now,
If you have wired internet available, look at BayWeb, although their tech service people could probably get you hooked up on wifi.

http://www.bayweb.com/mktg/webthermostat.php

I have 3 units working in 3 Houses, they work great.

The aux input / email alert feature saved me from a frozen house & pipes when my boiler control failed.

The occupancy feature doubles as a burglar alarm, very slick

oh ya, there is NO monthly fee either.

DIYCONTROLS seems to have the lowest price http://www.diycontrols.com/search.aspx?searchterm=bayweb


Tim

2 different size Triangle Tubes????

@ November 19, 2012 7:02 PM in Triangle Tube Solo 110 and Smart 80

Instead of 2 TT110's, (modulation rate 30K to 220K) Would it be feasible to combine a TT50 with a TT175 to get a wider modulation rate (from 16K to 230K) to limit the short-cycling problems in a setup without a buffer tank ??

Tim

One more thing....

@ November 15, 2012 10:41 AM in Triangle Tube Solo 110 and Smart 80

One more thing to drive you & your installer crazy with...
Why would you/he be thinking of doing 2 TT110's when the combined output is greater than what you now have & you don't use more than 1/2 of your present capacity regularly .

It seems like if you like the cascading 2 boiler setup, a couple of Locinvar Fire Tube wHn085's would give you in effect a 10 to 1 turn-down with a low fire of under 17,000 btu's. to limit short cycling under mild conditions. They also have a dual boiler Efficiency Optimized Cascade setup.

Tim

Heat Loss Done???

@ November 12, 2012 11:10 PM in Triangle Tube Solo 110 and Smart 80

Sorry to hear about your troubles, things are really a mess.

Has anyone done a heat loss with the house in its present configuration?,
Do you know if when you showered with the present system, were both boilers firing, if so for how long ??

The original install seems like it was way over-sized for the heat load, and used a boat load of pumps.
A New properly sized ModCon with Outdoor reset and constant circulation anyone?
Dump a bunch of pumps (& electrical consumption) and gain all the comfort benefits of reset. & constant circulation.

I went from something like you have to constant circulation & Outdoor reset, what a difference it makes!

You don't need the Tekmar with the modcon,

Does the snow melt boiler need replacing also?, possibility there, depending on the size, is to use that boiler to heat the domestic.

A big indirect running at 140* with a mixing valve could provide a bunch of 110* water.
I've seen it said on the forum before: size the modcon for the heat load, then pick the
indirect.

I hope others chime in with input.

That tankless suggestion is a good possibility too, then you for sure won't be tempted to oversize the boiler. I have all kinds of hot water heaters, Tank, Tankless, & Indirect
Watch out on the tankless, see what the "time to hot water" is, some of them are pretty long. My indirect has priority on the boiler, but because I run reset & const circ, the house temp never varies a bit when the indirect is using all of the boiler output.

Terrible that you have to do this, but it gives you a shot at doing it right.

Best Wishes:

Tim

Oversized ????

@ November 7, 2012 12:33 PM in Lochinvar Knight WHN155 boiler + Lochinvar Squire SIT040 indirect water tank

That boiler seems like a lot of horsepower.
My experience as a homeowner suggests that you & the Boiler Installer have a serious & LONG meeting about sizing. not enough info to say he is wrong, but the discussion you have with him will tell you if he has done his homework with regards to the proper sizing, OR if its a wild ass guess & then add some btus.

My house in the Colorado mountains (2000') has a slantFin sx150 150,000 btu 80% eff boiler operating at 9000' altitude. Gas usage MEASURED by Mark Eatherton 99,000 btu @ 80%, so, 80,0000 btus are going to the house. Coldest night of the year, 30below in Fraser, so slightly warmer in WP say 25below, 24% usage measured by my BayWeb t-stat .

My next boiler will be the WHN 055 or possibly the larger WHN085 to support all the after ski showers taken in a short time.

Knowledge is power, Knowledge save you a ton of money, & there is a lot of Knowledge on this website.

Good luck, report back with your findings & post your fuel savings too!


Tim

LinkedIn Profile

@ August 29, 2012 11:46 PM in Cleaning a Monitor boiler

Mark, I found this link, possibly your friend???

"HVAC INDUSTRY CONSULTANT
Davenport, Iowa Area | Management Consulting
Current: Principal at CARUSO HVAC CONSULTING Past:Pete at Caruso et. al., rAy Boiler National Sales Manager at Mestek, Inc., National Sales Manager, MZ Line at Monitor Products, Inc., Director of... Education: The Johns Hopkins University, University of Maryland Baltimore County Summary:EXPERIENCE: Spent 30+ years in HVAC industry, 20 with small condensing boilers. Opened my own rep firm specializing in commercial-industrial HVAC..."

I grew up right next to Davenport, parents still there, nice area, but I would still rather be in Colorado.... someday

Take care,

Tim

Indirects & Bears

@ August 20, 2012 9:43 PM in indirect control setup

Thanks for the input Mark, I'll keep an eye on the reheat cycles, & great tip on the hot tub filling at a low pace.

My wife was out in WP a couple of years ago without me. She was sitting on the deck, looked up on the roof, and there was a huge pile sitting on the roof. Not really sure what she was looking at, she called the people who check on the house when we aren't there & do the snow plowing. Jimmy came right over, took 1 look, @ said "Thats BEAR dung mam", my wife about left her own dung after hearing that. The theory was something bigger than him chased him up there, we found the claw marks on the front porch columns. She never goes out on the deck without looking back up at the roof now.....

Planning on late Sept visit, we would love to see your spot if the days & dates work out

Take Care,

Tim

Pool Guys

@ August 14, 2012 6:51 PM in Repairing Poly Pipe Under Concrete

One of our customers at my auto repair shop has a business that repairs leaks in pool lines & pipes, its all he does. He is real busy, but i'm sure one of those guys is who to call.

HTH

Tim

indirect control setup

@ August 13, 2012 5:03 PM in indirect control setup

Well, I have made the latest upgrade to my system,
1) Replaced the failing a-stat in my Amtrol WHS-80 boiler Mate with a Johnson control A419
http://cgproducts.johnsoncontrols.com/MET_PDF/125188.PDF

2) Added a Honeywell AMX101 Mixing Valve
http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/related_links/water/mixing_valve/sell/63-9370.pdf

Now I am looking for advice on how to setup the Controls.
I presently have the AMX101 mixing down to 120*
The Aquasmart control on boiler NOW is set to high limit 190* with a 45* diff.
Heating is done with full ODR Injection control with Radiant Tube in Concrete (lower level bedrooms) & tube in Gyp (Main floor rooms)
Boiler: Slant-Fin SX-150 @ 9100’ altitude. Mark Eatherton has measured the gas meter and reports 99,000 btu gas flow.
Taco 007 dedicated to the indirect.
A419 Set point to 140* with a differential of 10*

My questions arise from observation of the heating cycle for the Indirect. This is our Mountain vacation home. We drained & cleaned the hot tub, wanted to use it that night, so I hooked up the hose the the washer hot tap & filled it with hot water from the indirect.
There was no call for heat, only for hot water.
It took several tanks of water to make up that much water for the hot tub. While observing the reheat cycles, I noticed that when the Indirect tank temps were low (say under 100) the boiler temp would rise slowly & mostly stay in step with the indirect. At some point the boiler temps started to shoot up quicker than the indirect & the Boiler would cut out on high limit (190*), the pump would keep running, and the boiler would cut back in @ 145* (45* dif)and then make a run for the top again. That is when I raised the HL to 190 from 180 & maxed the diff out to limit short cycling. It stabilizes to about 6 min on, & 6 min off (HL cutout) until the indirect is satisfied.
It seems like the indirect should be able to transfer the heat better to the water tank than 6 min on, 6 min off. I never paid attention to the heating prior to the latest upgrades, mainly because You could not see the temps inside the indirect with the factory control, & I had the indirect set to 120* (or so I thought, I never measured the temps)

Thank You for your help

Tim

PS Mark, no bears in WP recently, enough rain & food in the mtns i guess

CombiCor design

@ August 1, 2012 11:40 AM in What are my options?

http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/shared/pdfs/specsheets/553.pdf


Its a water heater with a built in heat exchanger - NOT an open system :

"Heat exchanger – UltraCoil®
Heat Transfer System—dielectrically isolated,
double wall type consisting of a highly conductive material with an NSF approved
Polyethylene (PEX) coating. "


Tim

Radiant Panel Heaters ???

@ April 12, 2012 1:18 PM in Warm radiant floors?

Mark, would you clarify for me what you are referring to as a radiant panel heater. Are you talking tubing in some kind of aluminum coated wood panel that has a grove for pex, & is installed under the sheet rock, or a modern version of the cast iron radiator, or something else.

Wow, what a lack of snow in the mountains this year, quite the change from last year. Now I'm really concerned about Fire this summer. Hope things are well in your world.

Thank You for the info:

Tim

Buffer & ModCon

@ April 10, 2012 6:21 PM in Any issues with this near boiler piping diagram?

Actually, I've read on the forum here from "those in the know", that a buffer works quite nicely with a ModCon to streach those burn times out to Low & Slow for great economy. If ModCons were 100 to 1 turndown, then not needed for sure.
Watch out on the home depot home brew buffer, it can & has be done, but I've heard its tricky to maintain proper flow through the boiler, its very important, & being able to get enough flow fhrough the secondary with 3/4 tapings.

Tim

Short cycling part of your question

@ April 10, 2012 2:48 PM in Any issues with this near boiler piping diagram?

Now would be a good time to substitute a BoilerBuddy indirect or equivalent for the Taco HYSEP. On my system, I can't tell you how satisfied I am with my BB upgrade. You absolutely will NOT short cycle. By looking at your zones, I think you would be subject to short cycling a lot when the heat demand is low. With adding a buffer, your Boiler will have long on & off times even in the shoulder sesason.

You could kill 2 birds with 1 stone by adopting the Turbomax reverse indirect as your buffer & IWH all in 1. lots more money, but cry once, then you are done. Indirects don't loose much heat, (1/2*/hour), so the boiler would run way less than the electric you have now.

Just throwing it out for your consideration,

Hope all goes well,

Tim

I’ll give you my experience with in floor radiant heat.

@ March 9, 2012 6:47 PM in new home in Northeast...radiant heat solution?

WOW, I never would have thought I would know the difference in heating systems, but boy was I wrong. Even my wife comments on how even the heat is. My main house has forced ‘error’ heating/cooling and now that I have experienced in-floor radiant, I literally cuss every time the heat comes on & blasts me with hot air. I have been forced to consider a way to convert my house in Kansas to radiant floor, no easy task.
Our House in Winter Park Colorado has the in-floor heating. Design temp for Grand County is -30 below 0, so yea its cold some nights, Add to that we are at 9200’. Our house is well insulated, 2x6 exterior with bat insulation. Were about ½ the size of your planed build with 1000 sq ft on main level Master BR & Ba, Hall powder room, Living room 20’ ceilings, Dining, Foyer, Kitchen all with tube in gyp. The walk out lower level, also about 1000sq ft, is exposed on almost 3 sides, has tube in slab. 2 more BR’s, 2 more Ba, utility room & Family room.
I can highly recommend my system, BUT if you search around look for others who talk about radiant walls, ceilings, panel rads etc. Mark Eatherton is one who comes to mind, in his posts, he discusses there are other ways to enjoy low temp heating. Mark has a Mountain place about 40 miles west of mine where he is having fun designing all kinds of heating possibilities. There is WAY more than 1 way to skin the ‘low temp’ Cat so to speak.
If you put your basement tubing in the concrete, (insulate it very well underneath!), yes it is a wise choice I believe, You could put the main floor tubing under the floor using plates, but its not as efficient as running it in gyp & needs higher water temps. You would need to insulate each bay under the tubing, so no heat gain could come from the basement to supplement the main floor.
I would think if you use hardwood on main floor you would want to lean towards gyp with or without batons depending on type of floor. That would allow you to use lower water temps thereby being easier on the wood floor. In our House, we have tile in kitchen, foyer, dining, with area rugs in many places. We have carpet in rest of house, upstairs & downstairs. There are no comfort issues at all in any area. The other side of our duplex has same heating system with hardwood & carpet throughout. The right person can design it easily & you will be very comfortable.
Designed correctly, there will not be any noise from the tubing.
Your right, you only get 1 shot to do it right.
STEVEusaPA has good advice for you
You have to remember, some of the added costs of radiant also benefits you in the long run in other areas. Under floor insulation, a more comfortable basement, Gyp in main level, very quiet house, not to mention the low cost of heating with low temp water, saves you every month etc.

Hope this helps,

Tim

what drawing program

@ March 9, 2012 5:36 PM in Buffer Addition

OBTW, what drawing program do you use, I apparently need to "up my game" in that aspect

Thank You:

Tim