Heating Help

Humidifier

@ January 24, 2011 8:43 PM in Humidifier Effectiveness

Too possible issues come to mind.  The unit may be undersized, so it doesn't have enough capacity.  Between 40-60% is where you want your humidity levels.  Below 40 and woodwork or hardwood floors may be damaged, static electricity may be annoying, and you may have dry eyes, nasal passages and skin.  Above 60 may lead to wet widow sills from condensation, possible insulation failure caused by condensation inside walls or a mold problem.
 The other is If the incoming water is not warm enough, and the ambient air isn't warm enough, you won't get proper evaporation. Your home may also have lots of air leaks, but only a blower door test will prove that. 

One for the "Bucket List" ( Sort of OT)

@ December 20, 2010 7:01 PM in One for the "Bucket List" ( Sort of OT)

Happy Holidays and Season's Greetings to all Wallies near and far.  It's been a while since I posted in this part of HeatingHelp, but I thought I would share this info.
I just returned from a visit to Biltmore, George Vanderbilt's chateau in Asheville, N.C.  It is just incredible.  No words, artwork, picture or video can do it justice; it's beyond description. 250 rooms, built by Richard Morris Hunt set on 12,500 acres landscaped by Fredrick Olmstead.  It was decorated for Christmas, with a 35 foot tree in the dining room, with basketball sized ornaments, three masssive fireplaces at one end of that room, and an orchestra loft with a pipe organ at the other.  25,000+ books in the library, the fireplace there could hold a VW bug. Wedgewood fireplaces, incredible carvings and details. The Candelight Tour was spectacular, with Victorian costumed dancers and a live choir singing carols, followed by Bach and some more carols on that massive pipe organ.
The Butler's Tour took you thru the infrastructure.  The place was self suffcient, generating its own electricity with a steam powered generator, later replaced by a gasoline engine, which has been restored, and is a site to see.  It's about the size of a service van.  One of the original boilers still is used, converted to gas from coal.  The other two have much of the original coal firing gear still there, facsinating.  Pictures inside are forbidden, but there are some rare gems of radiators, still working, with the nickel-plated valves intact.  The ones in the servants area were plain 18 column, 3 row American Radiator, and the ornate ones in the owner's areas were 3 row 24 column A.A. Griffin Pat.1874.  They had a cross-hatched top that was cast as part of the radiator, very intricate, and a testament to the Dead Men who made the molds for casting iron.
The ammonia refrigeration plant is gone, but the electrical control room with all the "Frankenstein" knife switches and ornate dials is still there, as is the lightning arrestor system.
I won't bore you with any more details, but this is one of those "gotta see" places.  Christmas and the spring are the best times, if you want to tour a garden with 40,000 tulips in it, or an incredible rose garden in the summer.
I wouldn't recommed this for little kids, lots of walking & climbing stairs, and stuff they wouldn't understand or appreciate, except the Christmas trees.  Visit www.biltmore.com for more info. 

Wet Walls

@ December 20, 2010 6:27 PM in wet walls & windows in apt

Ironman mentioned a water or steam leak, very possible, and it may not be in your apartment.  Water can travel considerable distances, and leak hunting is absolutely maddening.  Other sources could be rainwater or snowmelt coming in thru the outside walls,or leaks around windows.  Please remedy this asap, or a mold issue could develop. 

HRV in attic

@ December 7, 2010 8:31 PM in HRV discharge temp

Heat recovery ventilators have to have a drain and some way of melting any ice that may form in them on cold days.  Some use an electric element, others recirculate room air.  They will freeze up in an attic, and are best installed in a basement where the temperature stays above freezing.  ER/HR ventilators are about 80% efficient, so the discharge may be cold on an extremely cold day.  A small hydronic or electric reheat will solve that issue.

Steam humidifier

@ December 7, 2010 8:25 PM in Humidification in space pak vs stand alone

The TruSteam humidifier that Honeywell makes can be mounted remotely, and connected to the supply trunk.  The hose is insulated, and the unit can be up to 20 feet away.  It reqires a drain, water supply and an elecric hookup that varies by unit capacity.  These are available from your heating contractor, and are not sold at retail outlets as far as I know.  I hope this helps.

Ozone

@ October 28, 2010 1:22 PM in O-Zone

Yes, I can agree that the EPA has become politicized, and that there does often seem to be a bias against American brands by various consumer groups.
  I have often noticed and appreciate your work with carbon monoxide, but when I visited your website, I didn't see anything about the O-Zone unit.  Do you/they have a website?  I'm interested in more info on this product, since you feel so strongly about it. 
The original poster, Obi Wan, hasn't responded with what kind of issue the Jedi Academy is trying to address. I know...the humor was lame, but irresitible.

Ozone

@ October 26, 2010 12:11 PM in O-Zone

Ozone is controversial.  It has its proponents and detractors.  I used to get the ozone objection when I was proposing electronic air cleaners and ultraviolet germ killing lights to potential customers.  While the products I was involved with produced very little ozone, I still had cases where customers either opted to use mechanical filters, or had them removed, citing irritation from ozone.  If a customer had severe asthma,and such people are very sensitive to even minute levels of ozone, I recommended that electronic units not be used, and hepa filters installed  instead. 
The EPA is not infallible, but the guidelines from them, OSHA and ASHRAE are all we have to work with.  Ozone damages rubber and plastics, and is a concern with air handlers, furnaces and ductwork, especially flex.
As for Consumer Reports, about 4 years ago, they evaluated many air cleaning devices, ranging from tabletop units to professionally installed systems.  I do not have the magazine in question to reference, I passed it on to management at the time.
As for the "clean air after a thunderstorm" observation, in my opinion, the violent mixing of atmospheric levels by the tremendous up and downdrafts will dilute pollutants, and the torrential downpours wash smoke and other particulates out of the air.  Ozone from lightning may have some effect, following the logic that  ozone is used effectively by professional restoration companies to get rid of smoke odors after a structure fire. BTW, I am not a meteorologist
I don't know what problem the poster is trying to solve, I need some more info.  Maybe the house has fire/smoke damage, or he's trying to get rid of odors left from a previous owner who was a heavy smoker.

Ozone

@ October 25, 2010 2:19 PM in O-Zone

Ozone generators are used by restoration companies to remove the smoke odors after a fire.  These are powerful, commercial units used by professionals only.  Over the years, there have been many claims by people selling supposed ozone generators, most of which are highly exaggerated and/or unproven.  Consumer Reports has tested many such contraptions and you can find out the results by logging on to their website.(www.ConsumerReports.org)  Elevated ozone levels are irritating to everyone...why do you think the environmental agencies publish ozone alerts in metropolitan areas when stagnant air masses remain in place for a long time?  People with allergies and respiratory diseases often are more sensitive than others, and can be harmed by elevated ozone levels.
What kind of a problem are you trying to solve?

Insulation

@ October 17, 2010 1:17 PM in I'm upgrading a home I bought

I also favor dense-pak cellulose ,properly treated with insect control, water repellent and fire retardant.  Offgassing from the older foam spray products and the particulate from the "shaving" process could be a problem, but now the products have evolved beyond that point. If you live in a bitter cold, windy place like the Adirondacks, North Kingdom in Vermont , U.P. Michigan or Minnesota, make sure the R values are at the design requirements for the area, and you have a heat loss done to make sure.  Same for more moderate climates.  Insulation is part of the equation for comfort and efficiency...too much or too little can be harmful.  Pick a reliable contractor with experience.

Humidifier

@ October 14, 2010 9:00 PM in humidifier help

Ironman is correct.  The Honeywell Truesteam doesn't need a call for heat to provide humidification; it heats the water to steam and starts the fan itself.   It indeed can be mounted remotely, with an insulated hose going to the ductwork. It will need a water supply and a drain that are also remote or otherwise protected from freezing.  Good duct insulation is essential. Mount the humidifier nozzle on the downstream side of  the electronic air cleaner. As for steam having any effect on duct work, unless it condenses to liquid water, there should be no problem. That's why insulation is so important, A small electric or hydronic reheat coil will help temper the air in the duct, and ward off any condensation.  This type of coil isn't there for heating purposes, it just tempers the air so you don't get a clammy blast when the humidifier and fan come on.  You can wire a zone valve into the humidifier circuit(hydronic) or a time delay relay for electric,to givie it time to heat up. The largest capacity Truesteam should allow for enough humidity.  Don't forget that showers, cooking and other routine activities add humidity.

ER/HR ventilators & radon

@ May 16, 2010 3:38 PM in radon mitigation

Radon infiltration can be mitigated in many ways, one of which is to keep the basement under a slight positive pressure, and the most economical way to do that is with an energy or heat recovery ventilator.  It would be on seperate ductwork fron the heating & AC system, sealed tightly, and would bring in slightly more air than it exhausts. Often, an adjustable damper regulates air flow, and the ER/HR unit runs 24/7 on low speed. Other methods, including sub-slab ventilation, sealing of floating slab edges, and sealing of cracks and sump pump covers will still be needed.  No two radon problems are the same, so make sure you deal with a pro.  Don't base your decisions on a result from a test product sold at retail, only a trained professional like an Environmental Engineer or an Industrial Hygienist can give you the corrrect, accurate  results.  Like mold remediation, this is for those who have the proper tools and training to handle it.  I hope you find this useful.

Testing gear

@ May 3, 2010 3:15 PM in where do you shop for IAQ testing supplies?

There are a number of sources.  Most manufacturers sell thru distributors, so your usual source of heating supplies may be your best bet. The same ones who carry combustion analyzers may also have access to the toxic/combustible lines as well, for example, Bacarach & Bendix.  Mold testing is different.  There are several test methods.  Some count spores. Others use samples, which are grown & identified under laboratory conditions.  That is the realm of the Industrial Hygienist or Environmental Engineer or Biologist, who have such facilities available.  The "mail in " tests that are sold at retail have a purpose as screening tests only, for proper mold identification, you need a trained person, with the proper lab equipment.
Another source for toxic/combustible monitors is the Conney Safety Equipment catalog, www.Conney.com, a general saftey gear mail order house.

Ventilation

@ March 18, 2010 6:53 PM in ventilating after weatherization

How many people are in the living space?  Is it a home or a commercial building?The number of air changes/hour vary based on occupancy & activities, for example cooking, which generates smoke, odors and water vapor.  The typical ER/HR ventilator delivers approximately 200 CFM on high speed.

ER/HR ventilators

@ March 11, 2010 12:10 PM in ERV vs. HRV...

Both er/hr ventilators are a box with a fan in it.  The differences are in the core or element that is inside, that the air passes thru.  Some include filters for particles and UV lights to inhibit bioaerosols, but the energy transfer occurs in the core.  The hr ventilator has a metal core.  The incoming air passes on one side, and the outgoing air on the other.  Since heat always moves to cold, the energy gets transferred to the incoming air in the winter, and the outgoing air in the summer.  Only sensible heat is effected in an HR ventilator.  In winter, frost may form on the element, and would soon clog it if there wasn't some provision for melting it, usually circulating warmer inside air around it, causing the frost to melt.  In summer, condensation will occur, and these two sources of liquid water are the reason an HR ventilator always needs a drain, and must be located in a space that does not go below freezing.  They tend to dry a space.
An Energy recovery ventilator uses a different element.  It may be a hygroscopic paper core, which will transfer moisture as well as heat from the higher side to the lower.  The ER ventilator never has liquid water, and recovers both sensible and latent heat.  It does not requirea drain, and tends to balance humidity.
Both run at about 80% efficiency, and can be controlled by a manual switch, a de-humidistat or  a program from some better quality thermostats that have a ventilation feature.  Usually, these units run 24/7 on low speed, but can be sent to high speed if needed for more fresh air, for example, when you have lots of guests.  They also tend to dilute and exhaust pollutants and odors.

Humidification

@ February 26, 2010 11:44 AM in Adding Humidity, Part Deux

Hi!  Sorry about the delay in answering.  I agree with Don that you may not need supplemental humidification, if your house is tight.  Showers, cooking and laundry put more humidity into the air than you might think.  I do not recommend atomizing humidifiers, the orifice that the water sprays thru is absolutely critical, and any wear or mineral deposits or water pressure variations can result in droplets coalescing on the duct, leading to serious problems.  In general ER/HR  units should run on low speed 24/7.  Bath occupancy sensors or manual overides to start them into high speed are one approach, and you also can program them to run at different times and speeds with certain thermostats.  I'm suprised that the ER/HR unit is loud.  Usually, they run at about 200 cfm, and are barely noticible. For low temp systems, steam humidification is probably the best option, despite electricity consumption, which actually should be reasonable, if the unit is sized properly, and your controls are working right.  I hope this helps.

Oxygen

@ January 12, 2010 6:11 PM in Oxygen Content?

The outdoor unit of a heatpump has nothing to do with fresh air.  It rejects heat(summer) or absorbs it (winter) as a stage of heating.  The inside unit circulates the air around, and probably has nothing to do with oxygen content either, unless it has some sort of outside air feature.  Energy or heat recovery ventilators bring in and exhaust equal amounts of air, and tend to dilute and exhaust pollutants, and bring in fesh outside air.  They are about 80% efficient, and typically are connected to your ductwork, and they run 24/7 on low speed, and can be set to ahigher speed by a manual switch, a dehumidistat or by a program on certain thermostats.
Several versions of energy/heat recovery units are available, some even have advanced filtration and ultraviolet lights for killing some pathogens.  Besidesopening a window, they are your best alternative.  I hope this was useful.

Possible cause for liquid water

@ January 2, 2010 3:48 PM in Adding Humidity

The ductwork may not be insulated well enough.  The steam could be condensing. I doubt that water is carrying over, those have a steam dome built in that should eliminate that. Did the installer use the insulated hose that comes in the remote mount kit, and if that was used, how far from the duct is the humidifier? Also, during off cycles, moisture from daily living like taking showers, cooking and laundry can put considerable moisture into the air that may condense in the ductwork, if it isn't properly insulated.  Is it sheet metal or flex?

Humidification

@ December 30, 2009 12:00 PM in Adding Humidity

Hi, Dave.  You can consider a Honeywell True-Steam humidfifer for that application.  They don't require a call for heat to work, just wire them into the fan, and when the humidistat call for heat the fan and humidifier will operate together.  You also can use one of the VisionPro thermostats, which has an on-board humidity sensor.  Make sure the ductwork is insulated, and you might also consider a "re-heat", an hydronic coil on a zone valve wired into the humidifier/fan that opens and allows tempering of the air to prevent cold drafts and minimize possible condensation.  There are several different capacity units, if you're a contratctor, see your supply house for details, if you are a homeowner, ask your contractor, and both can go to [url=http://www.customer.honeywell.com]www.customer.honeywell.com for literature. TrueSteams are not sold at retail.

Honeywell UV question

@ December 15, 2009 10:27 PM in Honeywell UV Question

What is the code saying?  BTW, I am no longer associated with Honeywell, but I will try to help you out.  You also can try [url=http://www.customer.honeywell.com]www.customer.honeywell.com, and follow the prompts.  The site has literature and technical info at no charge. Is there power to the light?  There is a safety device that prevents the bulb from lighting unless it is seated propoerly. DO NOT bypass any of the safety interlocks, looking at one of those lit bulbs even for a second will cause severe and probably irreversible eye damage. Be careful.

Settings for ERHR ventilator

@ November 19, 2009 1:58 PM in Fix it guy

Usually, they run on low speed 24/7.  You can set them to high speed by a manual switch, timer or automatically  from certain better quality thermostats.  You would use high speed when you have higher than usual occupancy, like a party, or when you need extra ventilation to help dissipate cooking odors.  Do not expect any ERHR ventilator to remove smoke or dust; filters and electronic air cleaners do that.  They dilute and exhaust odors and stale air.  Do not put your house under a positive or negative pressure, make sure your air flow is balanced.  I believe the Lifebreath unit has filters and an Ultraviolet light to help minimize bioaerosols.  Make sure the UV light is changed as per the manufacturer's requirements...it may still light, but is not producing the proper wavelengths to deter bioaerosols.  They last for a year or so, depending on the manufacturer. Change the filters, too.

Ventilation for radiant heated, superinsulated home

@ November 19, 2009 1:40 PM in air makeup for radiant heat

Hi, Tim.  There are several brands of enrgy recovery/heat recovery ventilators on the market.  All require at least some ductwork, and an intake and exhaust outside that must be above the snow line and away from any other vents for dryers, kitchen fans, pet areas or combustion appliance and automobile exhaust.  Which type you choose depends on where you live, based on the humidity.  Typically, an ER/HR ventilator is about 80% efficient.  HR units tend to dry out a space, ER units tend to balance humidity.  If the ventilator is ducted into your AC system, it will deliver fresh air thru all your ducts, and it is vital that your ductwork be properly indulated to avoid condensing water problems.  Also, these units are about 80% efficient, so the incoming air may feel cold on extremely cold days in the winter. A small hydronic reheat will cure this problem,by tempering the air as needed.  These units typically run 24/7 on low speed, with the high speed option controlled by a timer, manual switch, or from certain better quality thermostats.
Depending on the size of your home, you may need more than one ER/HR ventilator. Most units deliver about 200 cfm on low speed, and don't require any help from your system fan. How many people are involved?  Another important point is that you do not put the house under either a positive or negative pressure, so air balancing is required.  There are units that contain advanced filters and ultra violet lights to kill bioaerosols.  These require proper maintenance to function properly, and UV lights lose effictiveness over time, and while they may still light, they aren't producing the correct UV wavelength to kill bioaerosols.  I hope this was helpful.

Formula

@ November 2, 2009 10:41 AM in formula for calculaing related air humidities

Unfortunately, I don't have the formula, or know  if there is one.  Try the ASHRAE or ACCA website, they, if anyone, they would have it.  Sorry I couldn't help.