Heating Help

Is Your Experience Current ?

@ January 25, 2012 10:12 AM in Rheem or Bradford White ?

I'm sorry, but I can't tell whether you mean that you sold them without problems in the past, or that you sold them without problems in the past and still do so.

The reason I am trying to make this distinction is that a lot of companies in this country have outsourced their manufacture and unfortunately the quality of offshore parts and assembly is not always the same quality standard as what was before.

Are you still handling the Bradford water heaters and do they still measure up to the quality that you saw in the past?

Thank You For Your Help.

I Appreciate The Response.

@ January 25, 2012 10:03 AM in Rheem or Bradford White ?

Thank you for the info.

Rheem or Bradford White ?

@ January 24, 2012 1:04 PM in Rheem or Bradford White ?

Rheem or Bradford White ?

I posted this question in the Domestic Hot Water Forum, but did not get any information, so I am reposting the question on the Main Wall in hopes of getting some feedback.
 
I know that this question has been asked before in different ways, but
quality and company ownership changes over time and I do not find any
recent discussions on the forums in The Wall.

I will need to be replacing my old standing pilot, storage, gas fired hot water heater.
I want to stick with a pilot light + storage system so that I can still have hot water
during a power outage. I need a high recovery unit to handle "shower
time."

From reading around the net it seems that many brands are all made
by one of three companies. Even though my current unit is AO Smith, I
am not inclined to get another. Current AO units seem to have a lot of
difficulty keeping the standing pilot lit. My old unit's pilot, while staying lit,
seems to burn very inefficently, (very slight but noticable methyl
mercaptan odor), but in fairness it is about 8 years old. It was checked
by my pro.

According to my pro, I can fit units between 50 and 65 gal storage tank.
So far that I can tell, Rheem and Bradford White still seem to be
independent manufacturers with good reputations. Rheem purports to have
the advantage of generic gas valves, and a longer warranty
available. Bradford claims to have a more sophisticated pilot system and button reset if there is an internal burn. I do not know if this is a good thing or bad. I tend to shy away from computers for things like heating. I find a fewer number of consumer complaints about Bradford, but that may be in part because Rheem units are often
installed on contract to big box stores under the GE brand. I read that the units are not quite the same as those sold at the supply houses for pro installation. I have found complaints of leaking tanks, dismal tech support, and awkward warranty service about both brands.

The units I am considering are:

Rheem Professional Heavy Duty:
RHG Pro50-65F
RHG Pro60F
RHG Pro65F

or

Bradford White Extra Recovery
M-2-XR504T6FBN
M-2-XR65T6FBN

Does anyone have any experience with any of these units either positive or negative ?

Any general comments on Rheem vs. Bradford are helpful too.

If this helps further the discussion, this is what I find currently on who makes what.

Rheem: GE, Rudd, Marathon, Rheem and Richmond.

A.O. Smith: American, Apollo, Cirrex, E-Tech, Glascote, GSW, Kenmore,
Maytag, Permaglas, Reliance, State and Whirlpool. They recently
purchased Lochinvar too.

Bradford White: Bradford White, and Jetglas.

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

Yep

@ January 21, 2012 11:54 PM in Rheem or Bradford White ?

Yes, they still are. The units I listed above are just a few of them. If you lose power you lose your heat, but with standing pilot hot water heaters, you can still have a hot shower. I have first hand experience with this. :-(  LOL

Bump

@ January 20, 2012 11:35 AM in Rheem or Bradford White ?

Anyone ?

Rheem or Bradford White ?

@ January 15, 2012 1:15 PM in Rheem or Bradford White ?

I know that this question has been asked before in different ways, but quality and company ownership changes over time and I do not find any recent discussions on The Wall.

I will need to be replacing my old gas fired hot water heater. I want to stick with a pilot light system so that I can still have hot water during a power outage. I need a high recovery unit to handle shower time. From reading around the net it seems that many brands are all made by one of three companies. Even though my current unit is AO Smith, I am not inclined to get another. Current AO units seem to have a lot of difficulty keeping the pilot lit. My old unit pilot, while staying lit, seems to burn very inefficently, (very slight but noticable methyl mercaptan odor), but in fairness it is about 8 years old. It was checked by my pro.

According to my pro, I can fit units between 50 and 65 gal storage tank. So far that I can tell, Rheem and Bradford White still seem to be independent manufacturers with good reputations. Rheem purports to have the advantage of generic valves and thermocouples, and a longer warranty available. Bradford claims to have a more sophisticated pilot system. I do not know if this is a good thing or bad. I tend to shy away from computers for things like heating. I find fewer consumer complaints about Bradford but that may be in part because Rheem units are often installed on contract to big box stores. I read that the units are not quite the same as those sold at the supply houses for pro installation.

The units I am considering are:

Rheem Professional Heavy Duty:
RHG Pro50-65F
RHG Pro60F
RHG Pro65F

or

Bradford White Extra Recovery
M-2-XR504T6FBN
M-2-XR65T6FBN

Does anyone have any experience with any of these units either positive or negative ?
Any general comments on Rheem vs. Bradford are helpful too.

If this helps, this is what I find currently on who makes what.

Rheem: GE, Rudd, Marathon, Rheem and Richmond.

A.O. Smith: American, Apollo, Cirrex, E-Tech, Glascote, GSW, Kenmore, Maytag, Permaglas, Reliance, State and Whirlpool. They recently purchased Lochinvar too.


Bradford White: Bradford White, and Jetglas.

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

Use T-Stat with Adjustable Differential

@ November 20, 2010 11:20 PM in Single Pipe Steam heating-What thermostats are you using?

Using Robertshaw RS6110 with differential set to 3 degrees.

Aprilaire also has adjustable differential upto 3 degrees.

Recommend putting a block of styrofoam underneath Thermostat to isolate wall temperature from sensor.

Hope This Helps

I Think He Means...

@ November 2, 2010 7:17 PM in One of the worst-maintained oil-fired boilers we've seen

jpf321 thank you for pointing me to this thread.

I think when he wrote "If the returns, equalizer and Hartford Loop are properly piped, no steam will ever reach them.",
Steamhead means the section of the equalizer that is below the waterline because the part that is above the waterline is the Header Drip Connection where the steam condenses back into water.

Gifford Loop is interesting. I found the writeup here:
http://www.energysavingscience.com/articles/henrysarticles

Easy Conversion...

@ November 2, 2010 11:09 AM in sizing steam boiler

If you use the sq. ft. column for the standard piping and pickup factor of 1.33 in boiler literature,
and you want to convert the values to a piping and pickup factor of 1.5,
just multiply the number in the column by 1.33 / 1.5

Is It Okay For The Condensate Return...

@ November 2, 2010 11:03 AM in copper vs black

Is copper okay for the condensate return line because the water in the return line has much less heat than the steam from which it condensed ?

Two More Considerations...

@ November 1, 2010 1:46 PM in sizing steam boiler

One other thing to consider is how the boiler block will get into your home. If your doorway and stairway are narrow, you will need a knockdown boiler (boiler that needs to be assembled once the parts are brought in). Not every brand comes as a knockdown.

The second is your chimney large enough diameter to properly exhaust the size boiler you decide on. If not you'll need (possibly a liner removed), a roto hammering and a larger liner.

Hope This Helps More Than Confuses :-)

Good Points.

@ November 1, 2010 12:16 AM in Can An Old Return Line Cause Wet Steam ?

Thank you. These are very good points to consider.

I am going to be replacing my return line soon and I was wondering if it might solve a gurgling radiator vent valve that does not seem to have any other explanation.

Regards.

One Other Detail...

@ November 1, 2010 12:11 AM in sizing steam boiler

One more thing I would add to jpf321's excellent answer.

The sq ft ratings of modern boilers use a piping and pickup factor of 1.33

That assumes some degree of pipe insulation on the sections inside your walls.

If you live in an old place that has no insulation, you'll want to use a piping and pickup factor of 1.5 to 1.6 instead and so you need to recalculate the boiler sq ft ratings yourself. If you don't the boiler will be a little undersized and will take longer to warm up your home. I lived with this for a while and it was no fun at all.

Hope this Helps

Can An Old Return Line Cause Wet Steam ?

@ October 31, 2010 11:02 PM in Can An Old Return Line Cause Wet Steam ?

If your condensate return line is old and has a nice inner liner of bioslime / crud effectively narrowing the inner diameter of the pipe, could this cause your steam to be wet ?

Electrical Storm

@ October 13, 2010 2:04 PM in Is Gorton Heating Still In Business ?

Just spoke to them on the phone.

They just got their phones up and running. They had an electrical storm there and it knocked out their phones and webserver. The webserver is going to take a few more days to bring up to running.

Very  very nice people. Always very helpful.

Phone Problems.

@ October 13, 2010 1:32 PM in Is Gorton Heating Still In Business ?

Thanks for that info.  I called one of their neighbors and they said that Verizon had a truck over there, so I'm guessing that it is telephone problems. I'll just keep trying them till I connect. I guess they have their own webserver too. That is one of the downsides of bundling services. :-)

Is Gorton Heating Still In Business ?

@ October 13, 2010 11:29 AM in Is Gorton Heating Still In Business ?

Hello Everyone,

I have some Gorton Valves that never closed properly and I would like to send them back to Ken at Gorton Heating for him to check them, but I noticed that Gorton's website is gone and when I try to call them on the telephone, it just rings and rings with no answer. Are they still in business?

This is the info I have for them, maybe it is wrong?

www.gorton-valves.com
Gorton Heating Corporation
546 South Ave E, Cranford, NJ 07016-3208
Tel. (908) 276-1323

Very Salient Points !

@ September 28, 2010 2:37 PM in Copper Or Steel To Replace Wet Return ?

These are significant considerations that had not even occurred to me.

Thank you for bringing them to my attention.

Now I really have to try to anticipate how clumsy we will be as we grow older. :-)

Oh boy.

A Few More Questions Copper vs. Black Steel.

@ September 27, 2010 5:39 PM in Copper Or Steel To Replace Wet Return ?

Thank you for your replies.

Ron Jr.
"...and you drop it to the floor once it's near the boiler ."

Would being two inches off the floor at the elbow feeding the loop riser be a problem?

Charlie from wmass
"...if you have multiple returns..."

My system has a single return line.

"I prefer using iron pipe for returns as I do not like soldering pipe that has been used for steam systems."

Is your concern regarding the copper and tin getting into the water and contaminating the block or is the concern the mechanics of the pipe manipulation for dissassembly and reassembly while doing the repair?

Thanks everyone for all of the helpful information.

Any Minimum Length For A Loop Riser ?

@ September 25, 2010 12:52 PM in Copper Or Steel To Replace Wet Return ?

Thanks guys. I appreciate the information.

Is there a limit on how short the loop riser could be ?  I'm asking because if I have my pro elevates the return line to enable getting a floor mop underneath it once in a while, I do not want to shorten the loop riser beyond any technical requirement for proper operation.

Thanks again.

Pitch ?

@ September 24, 2010 10:51 AM in Copper Or Steel To Replace Wet Return ?

Thanks Jamie.

Is the 1 inch down for every 20 feet of pipe run figure enough ?

I have a parallel flow / gravity single pipe setup.

Thanks.

Copper Or Steel To Replace Wet Return ?

@ September 22, 2010 3:13 PM in Copper Or Steel To Replace Wet Return ?

Copper Or Steel To Replace Wet Return ?
 
I know this has been asked before, but the only thread I
could find on it is from 2006 and did not seem to reach a definitive
conclusion. Maybe there is none ?
 
I replaced my old steam boiler last year and my pro suggested
this year that I replace my 70+ yr old rotting and sludge filled steel wet return that is
0.5 inches above the basement floor. It seems like a good idea.
 
Should I replace the wet return with Black Steel or with
Copper ( grade M or L or K ) ?
 
I would like the new installation to last as long as possible, so that I am not faced with re-doing the same work when I am much older and on a fixed income.

If I use K Grade Copper the inner diameter would be 0.05
inches smaller. Does this matter ?

If I use Copper should I ask my pro to use dielectric fittings where meeting up with Steel.

My dry return is about 2 ft. of steel NPS 2 inch.
 
There is a Bell Reducer and then about 5 ft. of vertical steel
NPS 1 inch.
 
There are 6 elbows and 2 couplers and about 48.75 ft of
steel NPS 1 inch just above the floor snaking its way all the way to the loop riser.
 
The loop riser is about 1.25 ft of steel NPS 1 inch. After
the next El there is about 1.33 ft of steel NPS 1 inch and a Union into a Tee
where I have Full Port Ball Valves setup so that the return line can be flushed
to a bucket without having to go into the Hartford Loop (and Boiler).
 
My pro says he can put a Tee and Full Port Ball Valve just
after the Dry Return Bell Reducer with a Garden Hose Fitting so that I can hookup a fresh
water hose from time to time to flush the wet return into a bucket to get all the anerobic bio sludge out.
 
Can I have my pro elevate the wet return run by 4 inches so that
I can fit insulation on the pipes and still have a little room to be able to get a mop
underneath it when we clean the floor ?
 
What pitch should we use for the return line or is level
acceptible ?

My boiler is a Weil McLain EG-50 Steam.
 
Thanks for all helpful suggestions.