Heating Help

thanks again

@ April 22, 2012 8:43 PM in sell me on a power gas burner

Tim ur the man also!  I guess you were typing the answer while I was typing the question. 

looks like economics 101. 

I guess we are making exceptionally efficient and elaborate horse drawn carriages while Henry Ford is across the street pumping out black Model T's.

Tim, can you please explain your two stage gas valve setup?  unless its proprietary, then don't worry about it. 

in the mean time, i'll be studying up on power gas burners. 

thanks

@ April 22, 2012 8:28 PM in sell me on a power gas burner

ur the man Rod!  I haven't been around in awhile because I installed superior venting, and a new vaporstat.  No heating problems last season.  We left the thermostat at 66 degrees (sounds low but its not) with a .5 degree swing and never touched it the whole season.

I spent almost $2000 in oil two years ago, and last year I spent about $700.  I know, it was way warmer last winter, but i don't calculate degree days like JPF321 does...anyway it sounds good to me. 

My boiler is from 1984, and works ok, but the piping is horrendous!  copper, 2" bushed down to 1 1/2", deadheading or whatever its called.  The refractory material is totally breaking up, and the flame is probably at the cast iron by  now.  I'm going to rip it out and probably put in a wet based boiler with power gas burner.  Oil is just too steep right now, and looks like PA will have lots of gas for years to come.  Maybe not good water, but plenty of gas. 

Do we have any hard data on the efficiency of an oil boiler with a power gas burner? 

It seems like the power gas people say a drop of 1%.
The oil people say no way, its more like 10%.
Steamhead likes 'em, so that's a good testament.

i've seen anectodal evidence, but no real hard data.  you can measure the efficiency via the flue, but what about the latent heat from the flame to the boiler?  Thermal efficiency i guess.  does a power gas burner mimic the flame of an oil burner? 

sell me on a power gas burner

@ April 22, 2012 5:36 PM in sell me on a power gas burner

im planning on putting in a new steam boiler this summer.  and switching to gas. 

I've been looking at the smith G8 and Slant Fin Intrepid oil boiler setups with power gas burners.  On new installs.  you guys are claiming that they get mid 80ish % efficiency.

Why then, do the best gas fired steam boilers only get 80% efficiency?  Wouldn't they all move to an oil three pass system and slap a power gas burner on there instead of selling gas fired systems?  does it cost more for the extra cast iron or something?

(i'm sure this has been covered before)

Thanks!

Tom in Conshohocken PA

yes but

@ November 29, 2011 1:04 PM in pressuretrol as vaporstat backup?

*edit* ok i was thinking about it wrong.  I was thinking that if they were wired in series, then the cut-in would be from the pressuretrol, and the cut-out would be from the vaporstat, an undesirable condition.  I was wrong.  Either an additive or subtractive pressuretrol will work. 

well

@ November 29, 2011 10:33 AM in add a rad

I would also advise to buy the book.  Lost art of steam heating.

pressuretrol as vaporstat backup?

@ November 29, 2011 9:51 AM in pressuretrol as vaporstat backup?

regarding the shoddy controls in the new vaporstats, I see it is wise to add a pressuretrol as a backup.  However, if I have an additive pressuretrol, this will not work, correct?
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for example:
Vaporstat -> switch makes at 6oz (.4psi), and breaks at 8oz(.5 psi).
Additive Pressuretrol -> makes at .5 psi (8oz, lowest possible setpoint) and breaks at additive of 1.5psi which is 2psi, (as a safety)
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This will not work.  obviously.
So therefore, I need a subtractive pressuretrol:
Vaporstat -> switch makes at 6oz, breaks at 8oz
Subtractive Pressuretrol -> makes at differential (say 1psi) and breaks at setpoint (say 2psi),  
This combination will work.
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So am I correct in the statement that I need a subtractive pressuretrol to be a safety backup if I am installing a vaporstat? 

Thanks!

just called

@ November 16, 2011 12:19 PM in Latest Intrepid/EZ-Gas Steamer

no, i have a power venter because of caved in chimney.  I was looking to get rid of the power venter somehow with direct vent.
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I called slant-fin to see if their Intrepid Direct Vent was approved for steam (its currently approved for hot water), and they said 'No'.  The tech guy could not tell me why though.  Something along the lines of 'its too hot and doesn't work well'.
-TomM

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Sorry to steal the thread.  Carry on..........

nice job guys

@ November 16, 2011 11:35 AM in Latest Intrepid/EZ-Gas Steamer

Hey, are they offering the Intrepid in Direct Vent yet for steam?  I see they have it for hot water.  Why not steam?

Thanks-

maybe

@ October 26, 2011 8:01 AM in Brand new supply valve wont shut off?

1.....Maybe the trap is still bad and the steam is entering from the trap side.  That is likely.
.
2....You say "it still hisses quietly".  What is hissing?  there should not be an air valve w/ a trap.
.see here:  http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/webapp/GetPage?pid=260
.
3....i would doubt that the valve is bad if new. 

EDR

@ October 13, 2011 4:35 PM in radiation-proper size?

if those guys that quoted you on a new boiler didn't come measure your radiators and give you an EDR value, then they probably won't be installing it correctly anyway, so i'd run away fast.  
Otherwise, all the information for calculating a proper boiler size is in 'the lost art of steam heating' book.  There is some info under 'resources' on the heatinghelp website. 

cast iron

@ October 13, 2011 1:05 PM in Pilot light can crack a steam boiler?

while I am no expert on the subject:
The critical temperature of cast iron (the temperature where a recrystallization change would occur) is 1330F.  Once it hits that temperature, it undergoes a crystal structure change to become an austentite, while the surrounding unheated iron is still ferritic.  When it cools (usually too fast) the heat treated area is now very hard, and is a different crystal structure than the surrounding metal, and it is prone to cracking.   
http://steel.keytometals.com/articles/art112.htm

Do you think the pilot light heated it up to that temperature when the boiler was empty?  That's your call.   Otherwise, i'd fill it up and see if it leaks. 

pictures?

@ October 5, 2011 7:43 AM in vacuum steam

Pictures?

thanks Bob!

@ October 4, 2011 11:17 AM in cfm of oil burner?

Sealed combustion looks real good from that angle.   Now its understandable why my 3000cu ft basement constantly sucks air from every crack in the wall.
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I was looking at burner intake air boots for outside air intake.  Field's has one with a 4" duct requirement.  At 1500 CFM thru a 4" duct, the air will be flowing at 286 feet per second!  It seems like that will turn into a jet engine and take off into outer space, sucking in anything that walks by the side of the house.  I can't see the fan motor lasting too long with an air boot of 4" diameter.  Can anybody recommend these things?  Seems like a loud design.

cfm of oil burner?

@ October 4, 2011 9:21 AM in cfm of oil burner?

Is there an easy way to calculate the air flow in CFM of an oil burner mathematically?  Or a general 'rule of thumb'?
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I understand that you could find the number of molecules in a gallon of heating oil multiplied by the nozzle size in GPM and the number of molecules of oxygen in a cubic foot of air times the stoiciometric air fuel ratio and all that jazz.........but is there a heating guy handbook easy method?

iron oxides

@ October 4, 2011 8:23 AM in brown sludge vs black sludge

There are many forms of iron oxide.
The black form is magnetite, Fe3O4.
The red form is hematite, Fe2O3.

Not sure if that tells you anything about the chemical makeup of your system.

not so sure about a thimbleful but....

@ September 26, 2011 4:04 PM in Safety of gasoline in basement with RC98i water heater.

here's a cool chart of percent gas concentrations for explosions:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/explosive-concentration-limits-d_423.html

step one

@ September 26, 2011 8:24 AM in Steam Boiler - Not firing up

get a copy of the wiring diagram first.  never travel in uncharted waters without a map.

slow down bro!

@ August 24, 2011 4:33 PM in convert to gas now, or wait until I learn more about steam?

yo i strongly strongly very strongly (did i say strongly?) suggest that you read Dan's books and hang out for awhile before entertaining any quotes for a boiler replacement.  You'll thank us later.  Some people hang out on here for a little while, figure out what you need to do, and do it,  OR some people get their boiler replaced with little or no knowledge of the situation, then find their way to the wall, and realize it was done wrong, and end up needing to get the piping redone or whatever.  Sit tight and read the books.  It is, by the way, still August. 

pics

@ August 22, 2011 6:29 PM in convert to gas now, or wait until I learn more about steam?

post some pics of the tank if you're worried.  do you see any seepage on the tank itself or the floor?

welcome

@ August 22, 2011 3:57 PM in convert to gas now, or wait until I learn more about steam?

welcome jv.  I'd suggest sticking with your existing system (assuming the boiler and tank are safe) and hang out on the wall for at least one winter.  By that time, you'll know all the ins and outs of steam and you'll understand what a proper boiler install looks like, correct sizing, system balancing, proper venting, knucklehead repairs/contractors, etc.  I wouldn't make any major decisions until you hangout for awhile......

also

@ August 22, 2011 9:31 AM in How does this radiator come apart?

make sure you use a stainless wire brush and really clean the area before you add jbweld.  after grinding, cast iron has tiny dust particles on the surface and the jbweld will fail eventually.  Make sure its absolutely clean.  I've used JBweld twice, the first time failed, and the other has been good for 2 years after I researched the proper method. 

Or you could braze it with nickel rod.  but cast iron is a b.  I tried to fix a cast iron railing, only for it to cool down incorrectly, and the cast itself cracked about 2 inches outside of the weld, past the heat affected zone.  never touched it again after that.

Gorton #2 diameter

@ August 22, 2011 9:22 AM in Gorton #2 diameter

can somebody give me the diameter of a gorton #2 real quick?  i'm thinking of upgrading but I have a tight fit in some spots.

Thanks ahead of time!