Heating Help

RE

@ January 24, 2012 6:57 PM in Burner output at various gas pressures....

Working on a modulating furnace?

I have a chart for pressures 3.0 to 4.0, but no lower than that. I also have a tech book for York modulating furnaces that shows BTUH output per every step of modulation. Could that help?

RE

@ January 23, 2012 10:04 PM in burner got wet

I might agree with you on the burners if they are stainless steel, but I've seen burner manifolds and black iron rot from the inside out after weeks of being "dry". And pilot orifices aren't very tolerant of debris.

Safety over sorrow. Always.

RE

@ January 23, 2012 6:29 AM in burner got wet

Anything that got wet needs to be replaced. I've seen equipment "dried out", then a week or a month later, it caught fire, exploded, or just stopped working. Don't take a chance.

meplumber

@ January 20, 2012 6:22 AM in 1 Boiler - 2 Zones - 2 Bills

I found those as well. My question was, do they just calculate the amount of BTUH in that one zone, or do they actually tally up and keep track of how many BTU's are being delivered over time?

re

@ January 18, 2012 10:47 PM in 1 Boiler - 2 Zones - 2 Bills

I also was leaning towards a timer. Didn't know of a particular type that would do it. Plus, run time of the zones doesn't necessarily reflect the burner run time. Zone 1 could heat the boiler, then zone 2 pops on and steals all the heat "for free". And the zones would be on the clock if the boiler ever shut down on safety or another failure.

1 Boiler - 2 Zones - 2 Bills

@ January 18, 2012 9:13 PM in 1 Boiler - 2 Zones - 2 Bills

So, I get a phone call today from a customer who owns the store front attached to a 2nd floor apartment. The landlord just had somebody replace the boiler. The landlord wants the store owner to pay for 66% of the gas bill even though they use the least amount of heat (freezer compressors dump a lot of heat into the store).

So, I had this vision of splitting the gas line to the boiler with separate gas meters and solenoid valves that would be energized by the individual zones. Does this sound practical or possible? The piping would have to be symmetrical to be accurate. Do you think, if both solenoid valves are open at the same time, that the meters would read the same CFH or the total CFH divided in half?

Most importantly...is there an easier solution? I've been researching BTU meters for the hydronic lines, but (hate to say it) they are damn expensive!

RE

@ January 15, 2012 12:46 PM in a puzzle for all you super-smart steamies

So, this method basically converts hot-water radiators into steam radiators?

RE

@ January 11, 2012 8:23 AM in mono flow blues

Yes you can! In fact, that's how the principle of Primary/Secondary piping came into this world. You can read about that in some of Dan's books.

Just size the pump for your connected baseboard run, and have it pump away from the Monoflo main on the loop's supply line.

But, out of curiosity...has this ever worked properly? Was it added to the system?

RE

@ January 11, 2012 8:15 AM in condensation

I'm always suspicious of outside combustion air. What happens when it rains or snows? All that humidity is going to be sucked in to the furnace. I've also had a manufacturer's rep tell our company that when the A/C is running, the furnace will become cooler, and outdoor air will travel into the combustion box and condense. In any case, it's a "necessary" design flaw to use outside combustion air. You start to realize how important the maintenance of these 90% systems really is. And how terribly difficult most of them are to maintain. Some of those burner boxes are just down right impossible to access.

RE

@ January 4, 2012 10:04 PM in The Munchkin 80m walk of shame.

Things I would check...

Proper spark gap. Even if it sparks. Check it anyway.
Good grounding.
Proper voltage to the flame sensor. (Couldn't find what it should be. Somebody here may know.)
All burner gaskets should be free from damage/leaks.
Verify proper combustion piping.


Do you have any combustion results? The way you have to "cheat it", sounds like an inconsistent flame. Has the burner been cleaned or replaced? Flue passages clean and clear?

RE

@ January 1, 2012 8:07 PM in have a question what to do withy a steam fitting

In that case....GOOD LUCK!

You might try to get a very long sawzall blade and make a few cuts in the fitting, then try to chip it off without damaging the pipe threads. Second option is to open up the floor.

Radiator

@ January 1, 2012 7:58 PM in have a question what to do withy a steam fitting

The radiator, by your dimensions and number of tubes and sections comes out to 42 sq.ft. EDR. That's 10,080 BTUH.

1 1/4" pipe is good for 55 sq.ft.
1 1/2" pipe is good for 81 sq.ft. So the run-out is fine.
1" vertical pipe is for rated up to 45 sq.ft. Here you might get lucky, and be fine leaving the reducing elbow in the floor, and running 1" to the radiator.

HOWEVER...

You'll still need to use an 1 1/4" radiator valve. 1" will be too small to allow the condensate to properly drain. Don't use a bushing. Use a reducing coupling on the vertical rise to avoid the possibility of pooling water in the riser near the valve.

RE

@ January 1, 2012 7:39 PM in have a question what to do withy a steam fitting

Can you measure the height, width, and depth of the living room radiator? 

RE

@ January 1, 2012 7:32 PM in have a question what to do withy a steam fitting

What is the EDR or rating of the new radiator? Maybe 1" will be enough if it's only for the vertical rise.

RE

@ January 1, 2012 7:20 PM in have a question what to do withy a steam fitting

Were you having trouble heating those rooms? What prompted all of this work? And why start now? Did you do a heat loss on the rooms?

Old pipe is tough. Usually, the ends justifies the means. Breaking a fitting in the floor is going to be mighty hard.

RE

@ December 29, 2011 6:09 AM in vent filling with water?

Can we see pictures of where the radiator is piped off of the main?


And here's a thought outside of the box...

The radiator is on the edge of the stairs, right? Maybe the natural air currents in the stairwell are cooling the air-vent side of the radiator faster than the other side, causing the steam to condense unevenly. And since the air vent is thinner metal than the radiator, the condensate will form there first.

RE

@ December 24, 2011 9:38 PM in Looking for a book

I may have an extra copy. I'll write back when I find it.

RE

@ December 22, 2011 8:13 PM in More Draft With Damper Closed

When I first tested, I believe it was a rather warm day (can't believe I'm saying that in December). I want to revisit after the new warranty boiler is in place. Hopefully the outdoor temperature is a bit cooler, and I can do some CAZ testing.

I may even take some pictures.

RE

@ December 22, 2011 7:57 PM in Help setting proper pressure for steam boiler.

Do you have any steam leaks? At the radiators, or in the piping? If the steam leaks out fast enough it may be dropping pressure very quickly. Is the boiler losing water during its cycle?

You can also try to raise the main PSI setting to a point where it settles out. But the lower the better.

RE

@ December 22, 2011 7:50 PM in Old Steam system

Not a huge concern. Ideally, the supply should enter the top, and exit the bottom. In a pumped system, there is no longer any gravity working on the water. Are the radiators heating properly?

RE

@ December 21, 2011 11:07 PM in Help setting proper pressure for steam boiler.

Oh boy, that's high!

Set the main at 1 psi. Set the differential at 1 psi. It's not printed, but go halfway between 0 and 2. You may have to fine tune it later on if it causes problems. You should never need to run above 2 psi on a residential boiler.

Main is the cut-out pressure. Differential is the number subtracted from the main, and sets the cut-in pressure.

RE

@ December 21, 2011 10:54 PM in More Draft With Damper Closed

I'm thinking, as well, that this is just a non-issue phenomenon. The draft isn't really rising. The perceived strength of the draft is rising. It's all relative?

There is a 90 right on top of the vent damper, one foot of pipe, two 45's, and 2 feet of pipe to the chimney. Very limited space to make any changes.

So, my initial draft is still too low. I think the chimney is on the same horizontal plane as the roof from the higher part of the house. It's a split level, and the chimney is on the outside wall of the lower (middle) level.

There is a natural-draft water heater as well. Get the same readings at the hood.