Heating Help

Shark Bites...

@ May 23, 2013 11:23 AM in pex or copper in concrete?

May be okay if the copper is clean and not out of round. Personally, I wouldn't do it. I'd go with the appropriate press fittings. Pex moves form thermal expansion and contraction and may cause an issue with the O ring in the long term.

If it were accessible, that would be a different scenario, but considering the possible cost of redoing it, I'd go with a proven method. If you don't have the tools, you may want to hire a pro.

Also, make sure that you use o2 barrier pex. It does make a difference.

Delayed Ignition?

@ May 23, 2013 11:06 AM in Inspections needed on condensing boilers!

Mark's explanation seems like the most likely, but I have to wonder if delayed ignition may be involved .

Am I Missing Something?

@ May 18, 2013 11:51 PM in Gas Boiler Pump and Zone Locations

The only "major" problem that I see is that the boiler circ is pumping the wrong direction. Why not just turn it around so it pumps the right way? Surely that wouldn't take much time or $$.

And, I agree with Carl: I can't see how the boiler could operate at all, much less properly, with flow through it being backwards. The control should lockout sensing the return is hotter than the supply. Maybe the installer reversed the sensor connections if he discovered his error?

At any rate, the flow direction should be corrected. I wouldn't just leave it the way it is.

CV Rating

@ May 10, 2013 8:51 AM in zone valve question

You need to size it by the cv rating, not the pipe size. That, of course, means you need to know the flow requirements for each zone.

Belimo makes larger size zv's.

Buderus s120...

@ May 9, 2013 9:05 PM in indirect tank size

Is more than sufficient for your needs - unless you have a George Jetson shower. We've installed many without any complaints. You'll be getting the full boiler output (about 97k btu's) instead of the 32k btu's that most gas tank heaters produce.

Aquastat?

@ May 9, 2013 8:52 PM in Primary Secondary Problem

Might simply be a bad aquastat.

You need Delta T readings from both the hydronic and domestic side with the tank uncharged and the gpm measured. Then use the universal hydronics formula (btu= Delta T x 500/gpm) to calculate the output. If it's not near the rated output of the boiler, then you have a hydronic problem.

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@ April 9, 2013 10:55 PM in This story will bring tears to your eyes.....

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Like

@ April 9, 2013 10:55 PM in This story will bring tears to your eyes.....

That's great Mark.
I wish we had a "like" button for posts like this .

None IMHO

@ April 6, 2013 10:51 AM in spacing

If the other parameters that you mentioned are properly followed, then there should be no minimum spacing requirement as is evidenced by the Caleffi manifold. The before and after spacing is to prevent the resistance/turbulence that the Ell's create from causing interference with the secondary loop. At least, that's how I understand it. Someone more knowledgeable may have better input, but I've never seen a diagram or text that mentioned it.

Still, it wouldn't hurt to allow at least 4" spacing if you can fit it in.

Good Question Tony...

@ March 29, 2013 10:08 PM in copper press fitting question

And I don't have the answer. Buderus has always required silfos in order to maintain warranty coverage and they seem to feel that soft solder looses some of its strength at 300*+ . But you would have to ask them for specifics.

One Primary Loop

@ March 26, 2013 5:29 PM in Injector confusion

In a properly configured system, there can only be one primary loop: it's the one with the PONPC where the expansion tank is connected. All other loops are secondary, tertiary, quaternary, etc.

Every other loop "sees" the entire primary loop as the PONPC.

High Temp O Ring

@ March 24, 2013 7:59 PM in copper press fitting question

Paul,

The chart says 284* constant with a capability of 356* spikes. Somewhere, I got another doc. from Viega that stated a 320* rating for solar. Buderus was fine with it.

Alignment

@ March 22, 2013 9:10 PM in copper press fitting question

ProPress, like any other method, does require some expertise to do it right.

After 40 years of sweating and silfosing copper, I got a ProPress last year. No, it doesn't take much skill to pull the trigger, but to do it so that the pipes are "plumb" (as in plumbing) does require a little more.

There is more "play" in the P.P. fitting's socket so there's a greater chance of getting things out of "plumb". Also, when you press a fitting, the tool will pull the pipe into socket in a manner that may cause the pipe to move from where you placed it.

The solution is to anchor the piping as much as possible before pressing it. That way the pressing action can't draw the pipe into a different position than what you intended.

As far as versatility goes, there are some definite advantages for the ProPress in some areas: As Hot Rod pointed out, you don't have to worry about water in the line like you do with sweating.

The biggest thing that induced me to get the tool was a large solar job we had to do. It had 20 panels that were separated by sky lights, chimney, attic fan, etc. on a tongue and groove roof on a huge log house. Not attic beneath,everything had to be neatly pipied on the roof. 2 rows of panels on either side of a 12/12 slope. Buderus required that all of the copper fittings had to be silfosed. Try doing that on a 12/12 roof where it's all you can do to hang on with one arm!

The ProPess was a wonderful solution. All we had to do was change the O rings in the fittings for ones that were rated at 320* and press away. Not a single leak and the piping looked great.

As far as Sharkbites go, I see some use, but the expense is great and they allow the pipe to rotate which can be a nuisance.

Believe it or Not...

@ March 21, 2013 12:35 PM in One Cast Iron Radiator Not Working (Tried everything)

It's probably still air bound. You may only be bleeding air from one side of the system. There are too many variables to list without seeing the system. Can you you post some pics of the boiler, near boiler piping and piping at and near the rad?

Taco Pump

@ March 20, 2013 10:48 PM in Slower taco pump?

The circ should Not be mounted that way. The motor should be horizontal.

I believe that you're misunderstanding "head" in a closed hydronic system. The term refers to dynamic head which is the resistance to flow created by friction in the piping. It has nothing to do with the height of the loop. In a closed loop, the drop in the return cancels the lift in the supply. Just like a Ferris wheel.

MBR

@ March 17, 2013 7:50 PM in Retrofit/upgrade suggestions

Micro Bubble Resorber: like SpiroVent, etc.

Short Cycling...

@ March 15, 2013 6:38 PM in Retrofit/upgrade suggestions

May become an issue if you replace the large pipes. Now, the volume of water they hold acts as a buffer. Take that away and the boiler will definitely cycle more which will reduce efficiency and maybe balance and comfort as well.

You'll need to get rid of the expansion tank in the attic and install a diaphragm tank and an MBR. Check the second floor rads for orifice plates and remove them if present. A manifold with flow setters is highly recommended.

Here's a very helpful article by Dan:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/332/Gravity-Hot-Water-Heating/72/Gravity-Hot-Water-Heating-FAQ

Glad to Help

@ March 15, 2013 6:24 PM in Converting Closed Radiant BBoard to Potable HW

A 20* Delta T is the normal design for B.B. Lower won't hurt anything and may give a little more even output from first to last rad.

40% not Enough

@ March 15, 2013 6:09 PM in Retrofit/upgrade suggestions

That's the minimum we've seen with a properly sized and installed mod/con on a gravity conversion.

The cast iron beast will eventually go out anyway, then you'll have to upgrade But, you'll have lost the $$ you could have saved during that time.

Don't confuse combustion efficiency with operating efficiency or system efficiency. What you have now would have done well to hit 55 - 60% operating efficiency the day it came out of the crate.

Boiler

@ March 15, 2013 12:03 PM in Retrofit/upgrade suggestions

Why would you want to keep the old boiler? Is it gas or oil fired?

Taco X Pump Block

@ March 14, 2013 6:31 PM in Converting Closed Radiant BBoard to Potable HW

It has everything as far as heat ex. pumps, outdoor reset. Not cheap, though, and limited to about 50k btu's. You'll still need all the ancillary components: fill/backflow, relief valve, expansion tank, gauge, air separator, etc. See attachment.

A combi boiler is your other low end option: Bosch, Navien, Cadet and the T.T. Challenger which you mentioned are a few.

As pointed out, please do Not try to connect the hydronic directly to your potable system: it's strictly forbidden by code and a serious health risk to your family. Open hydronic system are also a bad idea that can develop serious issues with time, not to mention the risk of Legionella.

Depending on the load, you may have to run the water heater at 160*+ to get the btu's you need if you use the X pump block and a water heater (see the chart in the instructions). Then you'll need a tempering valve on the domestic side. You may have to use something other than pvc for venting at those temps, too.

Do you know the hydronic load? How many lineal feet of baseboard element?

Keep it at 65+

@ March 9, 2013 7:36 PM in Vacation Home Heat Pump setting when away

A heat pump is designed to operate with 70* indoor temperature. Setting it substantially below that will cause the head pressure to be too low in heating which will also cause the suction pressure to be too low. This will lead to defrost problems, refrigerant flood back or poor oil return. Simply put, it will greatly shorten compressor life.