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Joined on September 1, 2010

Last Post on August 14, 2014

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@ October 9, 2010 12:38 PM in Thermo Damper ?

I can't tell you all the reasons, but a couple would be:

1. An oil burner needs to pre- purge and ignite with an un-obstructed flue. This type of damper's fingers don't open until well heated - probably 15 to 30 seconds after the burner ignites.
2. The fingers in the damper are an obvious soot catcher and would soon foul and restrict the flue.

A third reason would be that the damper's construction may not be able to handle the elevated temps from an oil burner.

2 Different Issues

@ October 8, 2010 7:43 PM in Buderus

Issue #1.  I understand why you would need to wrap the vent to prevent freezing.

Issue #2.  The response from Buderus seems to be more directed at fire protection because you're passing thru a garage.

At any rate, all manufacturer's instructions say that state and local codes take precedent over them.

 Why are you so mad at Buderus? How could they have foreseen that you would have installed the boiler this way and that the inspector would take issue with it? If the instructions did not address this, you should have consulted the inspector and Buderus before installing.

I would suggest that you or your rep. go further upstairs at Buderus and ask for something in writing to satisfy the inspector.

Attic Humidifier

@ October 8, 2010 1:38 PM in humidifier help

This setup should function OK,but I would have 2 major concerns:
1. The freezing issue as well as the fact that the line will loose alot of heat before reaching the humidifier, thus reducing output.
2. A four thousand sq. ft. home will probably need more humidity than the humidifier will produce. Still, this is better than no humidifier

The Honeywell "Truesteam" should be able to be connected to the supply duct and can be mounted remotely in a conditioned space (like a closet) thus eliminating the freezing issue.
The concern over the moisture affecting the air cleaner or duct work is  mis- conception assuming proper installation. The moisture is mixed into such a large volume of air that it is immediately diluted to a reasonable R.H. level in the air stream.

A Big No No

@ October 8, 2010 12:28 PM in Thermo Damper ?

These were made for gas, not oil.

Really curious about this

@ October 8, 2010 11:30 AM in Navien Heat Exchanger Problems

Most primary heat ex. that are stainless are made of ferritic ss (409). It handles high temp much better than austenitic ss (304, 316). The austenitic is also much more susceptible to chlorides. The magnet sticking to the heat ex. would seem to indicate that it's ferritic and less susceptible to chlorides.

We've been installing the Navien for about 6 months and haven't had any issues like this yet. I'm curious as to what their response has been about this and what kind of support they've given you?

Please keep us posted as this progresses.


@ October 8, 2010 12:15 AM in installing condensing boiler?..or not

Just curious if you're familiar with this product? All natural stuff. The manufacturer says you can leave it in the system. Haven't used it yet, but just ordered some to flush a 100 year old gravity flow system where we're going to install a mod/con. Made by Kenite Labs. Meshopen, PA. Roy Hall said it works great.

Very Informative

@ October 7, 2010 11:58 PM in installing condensing boiler?..or not

I appreciate the good input on scoops vs. MBRs and have no disagreement with your points. I prefer the MBR for 3 basic reasons, maybe 4:
First, the MBR does seem to work much faster on initial purge.
Second, it does not require the 18" minimum spacing between it and an upstream ell.
Third, most manufacturers spec. or recommend them with their mod/cons.
Fourth, the the auto vents on top of the scoops are notorious leakers and leave a nasty looking rust stain on the scoop when they leak. I haven't had any problems with the MBRs leaking so far (8 plus years now). And being brass, a stain would not be as bad. They are also now being offered for vertical pipes.


@ October 6, 2010 11:42 PM in installing condensing boiler?..or not

1. Do a heat loss calc. Size boiler accordingly, not according to old boiler. If you have and indirect water heater, that must be considered in boiler sizing.
2. Measure the square footage of EDR and calculate their capacity.
3. Use Primary/ Secondary piping to keep the flowrate right thru the boiler.
4. Adjust the reset curve according to 1 & 2.
5. Size zone pump(s) for 20deg. delta T.
6. Insulate those large iron pipes in the basement.
7. Seal envelope of house as best you can.
8. Use a good air separator (not a scoop) and a return line strainer at boiler.
9. Flush old pipes well, fix any leaks including valves.
10. Follow manufacturer's instructions: they write them for a reason.
These are not necessarily in order.

Would Highly Recommend...

@ October 6, 2010 11:15 PM in Thermo Damper ?

That you install a draft spillage switch with these.

Don't Know of any

@ October 6, 2010 10:53 PM in pex al pex

Pex-Al-Pex is larger in diameter than pex. You have to use fittings listed for it. All the brands that I've used are made to the same spec. so the pipes and fittings were inter-changeable.

Make Sure

@ October 5, 2010 8:25 PM in Radiators

You use Oxygen barrier PEX. This should go without being said, but many DIYs don't always know there's a difference.

The Isolation Valve

@ October 4, 2010 9:48 PM in Installing new Burnham ES2 boiler - installation questions concerning valves

Is necessary, as Chris said, if the outdoor reset card is used. It would have to be adjusted to maintain a minimum return temp.(140deg.) to the boiler to prevent thermal shock and flue condensation. The arrow is pointing correctly as the purpose is to "bypass" some of the flow around the boiler to allow it to heat up quicker.

Regarding the PRV, I think the tech writer intended for it to be a bypass relief valve in case too much head developed when most of the zone valves closed. It's probably not necessary with your setup if the end switches on the zone valves bring the boiler and the circ. on.

Good Decission

@ October 3, 2010 11:39 PM in In joist heating

You can't let the customer design the system and then you be held responsible for it. I wish more contractors would learn this lesson.

Rehau has thermal imaging of a system with and without the plates. The picture is worth a thousand words.

The Navien "CH""

@ October 3, 2010 11:05 PM in Integrated HVAC

Is a new model that has a separate heat ex. and pump for space heating with dual set point controls. Not as heavy duty as a mod/con and indirect, but not as heavy in price either. You get what you pay for.

ADP has a nice v/s hydronic AHU. Better than First Company's.

We Quit...

@ October 2, 2010 12:03 PM in B&G

Stopped using B&G pumps for the same reason - defective out of the box. Look at the tag: they are made in China. Grunfos or Taco are much better.

Icesailor ,Please Explain...

@ October 1, 2010 10:44 PM in Boiler Room Insulation

How will this stop the amount of standby loss from the boiler being 180deg. constantly?


@ October 1, 2010 10:39 PM in Boiler Room Insulation

I almost wonder why contractors keep installing tank-less boilers other than it's a cheaper way to replace.

No redundancy intended

@ October 1, 2010 10:27 PM in Boiler Room Insulation

Sorry Chris,
I was typing my post before yours had gone up. Didn't see yours until after mine had posted.

Need more info

@ October 1, 2010 10:14 PM in Boiler Room Insulation

It sounds like you have a boiler with a tank-less coil to heat your domestic. With this setup, you will have a cold line going to the coil in the boiler where the water is heated and then a hot line out of the coil to your fixtures. If you have this setup, the boiler control must keep the water in the boiler @ 180deg. constantly to heat the coil any time domestic water is drawn thru it. The down side of this set up is that there is a great amount of standby loss up the chimney from the boiler being hot constantly. This is would be why you're hearing the boiler fire with no apparent demand on it.

A much better setup is to have an indirect tank which has its own loop from the boiler and only heats when the aquastat on the tank calls for heat. With this setup, the boiler only fires when there is call from a heating zone or the tank. It then becomes a "cold start" boiler. You would have to have some control changes in addition to the indirect. Outdoor reset is also a big energy saver as Chris said.


@ September 30, 2010 10:43 PM in diagram of pumping away

Try this attached pdf.

An excellent boiler

@ September 29, 2010 4:08 PM in Buderus Boiler

I've installed several with no problems. The al. heat ex. will need cleaning annually, not difficult at all. Just rinse down the fire side.
The ECR 97gb looks even better, but not sure if they've released it yet. Really a sweet machine. See  Ad link at the top of page.

Bypass / Primary / Secondary Piping

@ September 27, 2010 11:21 PM in Boiler Choice Quandry: Installer Experience V.S. Boiler Design.

1. Depends on the boiler. Can it take low temp. return water? How much head loss thru the boiler?

2. Depends on system piping, pump(s) and controls. You have to maintain a certain delta T thru the boiler, usually 20-30deg. Multiple pumps whith large pipes might push water thru the boiler too fast.

 There is no certain answer without knowing all the variables on the job. There may also be more than one approach.
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