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icesailor

icesailor

Joined on September 13, 2010

Last Post on April 20, 2014

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Lifted:

@ April 20, 2014 11:43 AM in Tiger loop

A Tigerloop IS a two pipe system and is covered by all the rules of two pipe delivery systems. Take out the by-pass plug in the pump and a Tigerloop will absolutely not work. Although it might somewhat if the oil supply (tank) is above the pump, Leave the by-pass plug in on a one pipe/single suction oil line and as soon as the oil hits the pump, the pump shaft seal will immediately blow.
A Tigerloop is a pump. Someone doesn't agree with me but if you understand how pumps work, it's a pump.

War Stories:

@ April 20, 2014 11:32 AM in losing heat

We could have a few beers and swap stories.
You are blessed with situational awareness and the ability to connect things together that most others can't connect. You must be ADD.
One of my many analogies for people like us. Like, Johnny does OK in school. Never gets 100% on a test but does OK. Never seems to be paying attention in class, always day dreaming about something. The teacher is always trying to trip Johnny up with a question, She never can. One day, while giving a lecture, she noticed that Johnny is particularly distracted. She calls on him suddenly for an answer on the lecture. He blurts out an answer that is about 95% correct. She is outraged that he could give a correct answer, but DEMANDS to know what he was doing or distracted by. Johnny hems and haws. Finally blurting out, "A cockroach climbed out of that radiator pipe and crawled across the floor. It finally climbed into Sara's bag. where it is right now". Sara jumps up screaming and dumps her bag on the floor where the cockroach runs back down the pipe. The class is giddy with glee for the distraction, the teacher is BS at Johnny for disrupting the class and Johnny is sent to the office for detention.
The question becomes, who has the attention deficit? No one else in the class saw the cockroach but Johnny and he could still answer the question. A true "Multi-tasker".
Know anyone like that?

Mass Oil Lines:

@ April 20, 2014 11:13 AM in Mass Regs for Oil Line Protection - Does innerduct count?

I always used to put my oil lines in 3/4" NMT blue flex PVC tubing because it would bend nicely and not kink. You didn't need to cover it with concrete/cement. There was some discussion back then about covering it and I don't know if it was a misinterpretation by AHJ's that said you couldn't cover it. It is definitely better with it covered. But if it is an issue, and the oil line is inside blue NMT flex tube, just take a hammer and whack the concrete. It will easily break up. No matter what, the oil line must be inside the NMT tube. The only reason to have it uncovered is that there is a Hackaroo out there that would save a buck by putting a 1" piece on either end and claiming that the whole oil line is inside conduit. When it isn't. An inspector could make that point.
When this first was instituted, the fire departments were supposed to get a copy of the permit. The oil companies are supposed to have a copy of your approval or they are not supposed to deliver oil. Your oil company should know. The Fire Department should be on top of it.
If you chose or are ordered to remove the concrete cover, go to an electrical supply house (NOT HD or Lowes, they won't have them) and purchase some 3/4" HW (Heavy Wall) one hole conduit clamps. They fit over the pipe perfectly and you can jam the tubing into the wall. Drill plastic inserts into the floor, put in the screw and clamp and you will be covered.
I personally think it should comply. There are a lot of varying opinions among untrained fire/oil safety inspectors at local fire departments. Trying to call the DPS to get an answer is like calling the Man in the Moon for an answer.
In my experience and opinion.

Jumping:

@ April 20, 2014 9:15 AM in Tiger loop

There is no burner control that can't be jumped to run. The 602000 is no exception. Unless it is some monster fired at over 20 GPH. You have to take both "F-F" terminals off and replace them with a jumper like you would if you are following the instructions to test the control. start the burner, and as soon as it starts, connect the other side of the F-F terminals. The control thinks it is "seeing" a flame when it is not. Wise techs have a spare universal jet line with 3/16" or 1/4" flare ends to connect the outlet of the pump and led into a puke can. Then, you don't have to worry about a warm kiss from the Dragon. If after a few minutes of running, the puke can isn't filling, you have another problem.
Heatpro, if you don't have a Mitco "Kwik-Chek" pump tester, it takes the place of your home made line and will test the pump for proper operation too. You just might need to make an adapter to adapt around the obstruction of the solenoid on "Clean-Cut" pumps. Another bright idea by French Vulture Capitalists to steal more money from American manufacturers for higher profits. What do you do when it is 10 degrees out, no heat, and the solenoid on a clean cut pump has failed? Replace the pump. Hopefully, you have one in the truck. If it is a PeterPaul or Honeywell, you just by-pass the valve and go home. That bed was really warm when I climbed out. Not another all night'er to get someone heat. This only happens at 2:00 AM on Christmas morning. That only happens with a long time customer who is notorious for slow pay.
As far as those Push-Pull pumps, I bought one years ago. I never ever used it. My air compressor did a far better job of clearing sludge from lines and had so many other uses that I stopped counting them. I had one of those CO2 Blow Gun things. I still had cartridges from when I first bought it. You know that they develop 2,000# against a serious obstruction on a small short line? I can connect my air compressor and set the regulator at zero and slowly open the regulator. I've never had it above 30# that I can remember. Once the obstruction goes, the pressure will drop to zero. I crank in the regulator and let that air scrub that line clean, back into the tank or into a puke bucket. Whichever is convenient.
But, don't be opening the bleed screw on a two pipe pump set up or a Tigerloop. It says so right in the pump instructions and in the Tigerloop instructions. Doesn't anyone check the operation of flame controls by jumping the FF terminals before you turn on the switch to see if it starts? Get it running and pull a FF wire to see if it stops in the allotted time? That's more important than scrubbing the Kibbles & Bits out of the inside.
The Dragon will just LOVE to give you a warm kiss on your face if you're looking. Especially if Sparky put the service switch on the ceiling or away from arms reach.

Checks:

@ April 20, 2014 8:27 AM in losing heat

"" " I was told that the new washers come with a check valve that screws on the hose inlet before the hose, so it must be a common problem, I mention it because if not for my thermal imager I would have had a hard time finding the issue... "" "

That's a serious issue and IMO, rates right up there with the GM key switch. Someone seriously F Up designing that valve. Now, the manufacturer of the valve is sending a check valve to correct the problem if someone figures it out. Or, they junk the machine or it wears out. Dole, Eaton or whatever vulture capitalist investment corporation that now owns them, surely has a large team of highly placed and paid lobbyist watching to stop any hint of the public being informed of this serious safety issue.  Ask any of your appliance repair friends about if they know about a cross connection with the new 3 solenoid washing machine valves. I'll bet they don't know. Service managers don't read the service bulletins, they just put them on a wall for the techs to read, and they don't allow "on the clock" time to read them. If there's a problem and the machine is over 5 years old, they try to sell them a new one.
Its like that Korean car ferry that rolled over and sank. A canoe has more stability than that ferry. The Japanese designed and built it. It is narrow at the bottom and wide and heavy at the top. It must have been one pukey ride in a seaway. In one photo, it had a stabilizer vane that looked like a right whale flipper it was so big. To stop the rolling. The Koreans bought it and added more weight to the top. It rolled 60 degrees within  less than a 1/2 hour. Ever try to walk up a 12 pitch roof without roof brackets? That's 45 degrees. Imagine if the floor was not almost a wall and you could walk on a wall.
We find 'em, and fix 'em. "THEY" deny there is a problem. They're smart, we're not.
I know a criminal type who shared with me his words of wisdom to live by.
Admit NOTHING.
Deny EVERYTHING
Demand PROOF.

Debates:

@ April 20, 2014 8:06 AM in losing heat

" ""I didn't mean to start an appliance debate, just sharing one of my experiences"" "
Don't look at it that way. No one ever learned anything by keeping quiet and not participating with their experience. That's a really interesting observation you made. That has the same potential of being a design screw up like the GM key switches that turn off the ignition while the car is driving down the road. 
There is either a design flaw in the water  passages after the solenoids or a restriction in the outlet hose. Up until the last to years or so, all washing machine solenoids had two solenoids and a three position switch on the console of the machine. Hot, "Warm" and cold. For hot, one solenoid opens. for cold, the other one opens. For warm, both open. With the new 3 solenoid valves. and all the in-between settings, one or both hot solenoids must open. But the only way the cold can get to the hot is if there is a restriction in the water going to the tub. If the hot water pressure in the house at the machine is much lower than the cold, the cold will force its way up the hot water hose to the wall valve and into the system. The whole idea is some form of Green Energy savings. That valve must work with Solenoids #1, Hot and #3, being Cold and #2, being cold but as a  restriction in it that always allows hot water to pass through the valve, When it is in the cool mode, the solenoid is closed, but still passing a small amount of hot water. When it wants a hot or hotter/warm water, the #2 solenoid opens fully. They wouldn't need a sensor to mix it, just a script on the module to match the temperature setting.
You're lucky you found an appliance repair person that knew what they were doing. Although you had already DX'ed the problem. Appliance repair is the worst business to be in with a failure rate up there with restaurants. Unless that's a common problem, and no one is talking about it (like GM key switches), there wouldn't normally be one of those valves inventoried in the truck. So, it is a two trip call. The two service calls and the cost of the new valve is close to the replacement cost of a new machine. When the customer gets the bill, they go ballistic and want to negotiate the price.
The only way we find out about these Queebs (glitches) is when we talk about them on Forums like these.

Starting Tigerloops:

@ April 17, 2014 11:18 PM in Tiger loop

If you filled the filter canister, and jumped the FF terminals after the burner started running, you just wait until it sucks it around. DO NOT TRY TO PURGE OIL OUT OF THE OIL BLEED SCREW ON THE OIL PUMP!!!!! You don't do that on a 2 pipe fuel system (I hope), you don't do it with a Tigerloop. Because the Tigerloop IS a two pipe system.
Some have an obsession with the issue of lifting oil up a few feet out of a tank, to a ceiling and to a burner below. Once the oil gets to the top, it runs down hill and equalizes. Oil weighs less than water. You're not lifting heavier water, just lighter oil. If the oil pump is filled with oil, and you have a vacuum gauge on the filter, the vacuum will go up somewhat, then drop when it fires off. It will never be as high as it was when it sucked up to the ceiling. But you didn't need to do all of what you did.
Read the instructions with a AV Suntec pump. When connected as a 2 pipe, you DO NOT use the bleed screw. The Tigerloop takes the place of the bleed screw by sending the air back through the return line and into the Tigerloop. Always has, always will.

3 Solenoids:

@ April 17, 2014 11:02 PM in losing heat

The three solenoids are so they machines can control warm and hotter water. If a solenoid is leaking bye, it goes into the tub. There are still only two water connections. Two washing machine hoses. The only place there can be a cross over is still through the valve and the pressurized water will go out and fill the tub. Causing an overflow. If the washing machine valve on the wall that the hoses are connected to works, and you feel both hoses are hot, when the machine isn't running, there is something that is not seen.
If you're looking for a hot water issue like a potential cross connection, turn off the laundry box valve or whatever the hoses are connected to. If it is a Symmons #400, with the horizontal lever on top, they are notorious for the cold not completely closing. But, they are not physically connected through the valve. I don't believe that a washing machine valve that can cross connect like that can get a NSF rating on the valve. It would be an illegal design valve.
I wasn't saying that you didn't see what you saw, just that you might have misinterpreted what you found. If I found a bad valve, I told the customer to call their appliance repair person. Let them deal with getting a new valve. My plumbing stopped at the valve.

Loosing heat to cross connections:

@ April 17, 2014 10:58 AM in losing heat

HeatPro:
There is absolutely no way that a washing machine valve can cause a cross connection. The hot and cold water seats are separate and can only be crossed if you take a "Wye" hose connection and connect the Wye end to a washing machine valve and the other end to either the hot of cold of the washing machine solenoid valve. If both washing machine hoses ace connected through a washing machine valve (like  Watts #2), they are still physically separated to the solenoid. If one or both solenoids are leaking, the water flows into the machine. Without equal pressure on both sides of the washing machine valve, the water can not cross connect.
It may have appeared to that it was the problem but you probably solved it somewhere else and didn't know it.
The only way I have ever seen it and it is often is when the "wye" connector hoses are used on cheap washing machines that get connected with one hose. Like in really cheap apartments.
It can't be done.

Telemarketing, BBB style:

@ April 16, 2014 11:16 AM in Better Business Bureau

The person that called you is working for a Telemarketing company and gets a commission if you join.
Years ago, I belonged to a business trade group that claimed to have me in mind as a small business. They still claim that. But all the lobbying they do in Washington isn't about me, it's about "Them" who want to make it harder for me.
The BBB isn't your friend.
IMO.

Rated Delivery

@ April 15, 2014 8:54 AM in Hot Water Tanks and Sizes

"" "a buderus sst150 is a 40 gallon tank that will provide 181 gph continuous. " ""
181 gallons of water weighs 1500+ pounds. Unless the boiler is rated at way above 150,000 BTU;s, I doubt that it will heat the water you want.  

Another way:

@ April 15, 2014 8:46 AM in Hot Water Tanks and Sizes

There's another way to do what you are doing, that will make the AHJ happy, or if not, he/she will be wrong. IMO.
"Jetted Tubs/Soaking Tubs" use a huge amount of water. That 40 gallon Buderus SST150 40 gallon tank isn't big enough, no matter how hot you make it, and at 160 degrees, the tank won't last very long.
Add a 50 gallon water heater tank (I always use electrics because they are cheap) and use the SST150 as a heat source like a side arm heater. Use that heater to just fill the tub. You don't have excessive demand, 24 hours a day, just occasionally. So, storage tanks work well. Like peak shaving in power generating.
If there is any kind of a hand spray in the tub, it must be fed with a mixer. We usually set them under the tub with check valves so that they were always set to deliver legal water.
It will be a lot more effective to add a storage tank to increase available hot water than to get into a urination contest with the AHJ's. You'll never win.
In the late 1980's I did a 5 bath house with a 2 person jetted tub in the master bedroom. Spec'd by a designer. I installed a 50 gal. State Direct Vent gas water heater. I never heard a complaint. Two years later, I saw the owner and he told me that he needed a bigger water heater because he couldn't fill the tub without the water going cold. Everything else was fine. He wanted at least a 100 gallon heater. I told him I could add a storage tank and he would have 100 gallons of stored water. I installed a 50 gallon electric WITHOUT CONNECTING THE 240 VOLT and just used a Taco 006B. Never another complaint and still running after more than 25 years.

Draft Control:

@ April 13, 2014 10:45 AM in Slab house/Boiler in kitchen

If you're not planning on doing any combustion testing on the finishes installation, that's a good way to go.
However, just because someone else did it wrong, doesn't mean that someone replacing it the same way, will make it right. It has a UL Listing that calls for a barometric draft control. Make the vent come out of the optional top venting on the boiler and make another hole in the chimney. You can get the boiler closer to the wall and install a draft control. It needs the control for proper efficiency and adjustment.
If it gets inspected, an inspector isn't doing their job if they pass it.

Vietnamese cattle:

@ April 13, 2014 10:27 AM in What do you think of when somebody says Hydronics?

I'm interested to see dairy cattle production in Viet Nam with a farm of 32,000 head of milking cattle. With Viet Nam being 10 degrees above the equator and 30 or more in the North, I can't see Holstein Cows very happy there unless given a lot of Monsanto GM feeds and Antibiotics. African cattle aren't known for milk production. I think that if Americans knew what is in Viet Nam milk or the milk products used for consuming, there would be some griping. Until Monsanto has a law passed that it is a proprietary trade secret and no ones business.
How much milk does an Indian cow produce?

Intervention:

@ April 13, 2014 9:29 AM in What do you think of when somebody says Hydronics?

If it wasn't for Government "Intervention", there would be no affordable milk or any other food commodities. The Wall Street Crime Syndicate and the Futures traders would all be broke, we would be in another depression and people would be using soup stones in their very thin stews.
There isn't a Wall Street Bankster that does as much work in a month as the average successful farmer does when he gets out of bed to put his boots on.
On another note, which you seem to know, you can not ever get too much water into animals. My wife and I have had horses for many, many years. We have had horses that won't drink cold water. Milk production and water are important. What is more important to milk production is proper digestion. Which can't happen without enough proper water. Water management with pets or livestock is critical. Same with humans. If you can't throw down a glass of ice water or chew ice cubes because your teeth hurt, think about a ruminant like a cow, goat or sheep with sensitive teeth trying to drink ice cold water in the winter. Animals can't talk. So you have to be aware.
Read a book, Guns, Germs & Steel", The fates of human societies. By Jared Diamond. If it weren't for ancient Farmers, we wouldn't be here typing on computers. What few of us, would be out hunting and gathering food.
If you want something interesting, find some "Farro" (Spelt) wheat grain. AKA Einkorn. one of the very first domesticated grains in the Fertile Crescent. Right tasty.

Coyotes:

@ April 13, 2014 8:53 AM in But he's SO cute

One of the few good uses of Coyotes. They can catch squirrels. They do it in pairs and catch them between trees. Fun to watch if you can ever see it.

Pumping #6:

@ April 13, 2014 8:32 AM in Need help heating/pumping Six Oil

First off, have you checked with your liability insurance carrier to see if you are covered for a project like this? It's like roofing or painting off of ladders.
A 250K gallon tank is no small tank. In New England in January, it becomes an asphalt tank. I don't understand how they could get product consistently out of that tank when it is 10 degrees and blowing 40 MPH from the NW without heat. Was there some form of powerhouse with a boiler that burned that stuff in a big boiler? I did a lot of work in a power plant that had stationary diesels that ran on #6 and all the storage tanks had heaters so they could get cold product to day tanks where they really controlled the temperature at the pour point.
We all love a challenge. Challenges are how we learn. We also learn that challenges are risky. There are companies who specialize in this stuff. What is the extent of what they want you to do? Who is going to cart off the oil? Who is going to clean up the mess in the tank? Is there a "roof" in the tank to stop evaporation and loss of product? If there's one of those in there, you really have a mess. Did you talk to any tank salvage companies? They are experienced in this. It is really a specialty task.
Please let inquisitive minds know how this plays out.

Demand:

@ April 13, 2014 8:09 AM in High Vac Readings caused by BioFuel 20

" ""The cost of natiural gas is not going to stay as low as it is now but oil will get more expensive too; the demand for both is just too great for prices to drop."" "

The "demand" is driven not by consumer demand, but the demand that the Wall Street Crime Syndicate pay off their Masters with more cash. The Banksters have stolen everything else, they need more sources of revenue.

Fuel suction:

@ April 13, 2014 8:04 AM in High Vac Readings caused by BioFuel 20

That vacuum difference is about like the difference between a ice cream Frappe, made with a little ice cream or a lot. Of one of those things they sell you at Burger King or Mickey D's that you eat with a spoon when you get it, or wait for it to melt for a while and you drink it out of a straw.
If you are reading from a Garber Restriction Gauge, it shows green, yellow and red areas. As long as the needle is on the green or yellow, don't worry about it. When the pump is off, take a magic marker and mark a line where "0" (zero) is. Then, when you fire it off with a new filter, mark the running point on the plastic glass.
What's more important than anything else is that the filter traps anything that is coming along. Because if it gets past the filter, it won't be stopped by the pump strainer, but WILL be stopped by the nozzle strainer. And THAT will make it run badly, if at all.
If you put two spin-on's, the first will trap all of what can be trapped. The other one acts as a nozzle strainer but keeps the pump and nozzle clean.
IMO, don't even bother putting a garbage can with a bolt in the top as a primary filter. When the Garber/Spin-on is plugged, the garbage can will be totally plugged. With the garbage can and no spin-on, the nozzle will be plugged.
My old dead boss used to say to never to trust a gauge. There is no such thing as a trustful gauge that you pay under $10.00 for. $30.00+, maybe. I had two vacuum gauges with zero out screws and I checked them on shallow wells. I knew they were accurate. I kept them in a special place for special occasions. Minor vacuum pressure is not a good reason to switch to gas. You're only looking at the suction restriction in the piping.

Cute:

@ April 13, 2014 7:38 AM in But he's SO cute

Arboreal Rodents/Tree Rats.

All due respect:

@ April 11, 2014 6:10 PM in New Lead Free ball valves

When the solder is molten, it is bright and shiny at the face. You can hold the pipe in place while it is shiny. If you move it, it might be a leaker because there may be setting spots in the joint. Which may leak. If you watch the shiny molten solder, it will suddenly turn dull. That's when it solidifies. All the wiping should have been done by then. If you haven't done any soldering or "wiping" lead, you need to. To develop the feel for that space between molten and set.
I'm sure that you are a fine man with a torch. Anything I write here is to possibly help improve their skills. You heat a lead free ball valve with a flame thrower from the face back and to the other side next, you will lunch the ball seal, or not completely solder it.

Puss some old stuff apart that wasn't leaking and see what I mean. On 1" and larger, there will be all kinds of voids in the back of the fitting or the end of the tube. The solder didn't run there because part of the fitting was too hot and the solder ran out like water, while a back part was almost hot enough and would have taken solder if it wasn't all running out somewhere else.

Exceptional Taco:

@ April 11, 2014 5:50 PM in New Circ Pump Flange 90 Degrees Off

Your Taco isn't the exception, your B&G EcoCir Vario is the exception. It has a rotated flange, rotated from what is considered a standard flange.
You probably bought it on-line and the Internet Sales person is clueless about what they are selling. Here is a Taco 007 PDF. Your 007 model # should show "007 FS" for standard flange. If it had been bought with a FR designation, it would be the right way. Although B&G only shows their EcoCircs as right angle flanged, they must offer reversing flanges that go either way with the same flange set. The person who helped you doesn't know his product. They should have asked you about flange direction.

http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/100-1.8.pdf
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