Heating Help

System Pressure:

@ May 25, 2012 7:48 AM in trouble with a new system

I think that you need to raise the system pressure. It is too low.
Raise it to 18# to 20# with the by-pass lever once you have it purged. Or, just raise the pressure. You need to squish the bubbles. If you by-pass the expansion tank, the system pressure will go up when heating, squishing the bubbles or air. Once flowing, the bubbles are absorbed. If the pressure isn't high enough, you will get the problem. Especially if the boiler is below the first floor in a two story house.
My controversial opinion.
Use a #60 Extrol and run the system at 18#. For me, almost always, all problems go away.

Bad Ideas:

@ May 25, 2012 7:39 AM in Electrical question

Hey, understand. The first time I ever saw it, I thought it was a bad idea. I was plumbing a house in Massachusetts where I work and the house was being wired by an electrician from New York. I asked around and was assured it was OK. I have only seen it done a few times and knowledgeable electricians always said it was code but something THEY wouldn't do.
As far as "floating" or "Missing " neutrals, back in the day of Copper water services, if the ground or earth ground was clamped to a copper water pipe, and the copper was continuious from tha ground clamp to the outside, you could loose a neutral and not know it because the current had a way back. Now, ALL water services are plastic. You get a 10' driven ground or earth rod.
I have personally seen/experienced and heard of copper water services being cut by plumbers in a trench and getting "lifted". I heard once (possibly here) that a guy was "hooked up" and couldn't let go. But he could tell his helper to go kill the main breaker in the house to stop the flow.
Tick Tracers are a handy tool for telling if there is current there. I have two. I use them often.

UL Listings:

@ May 24, 2012 9:46 PM in Carbon Monoxide: A Step Backwards

It costs a lot of money to get a UL Listing. The more money, the better the listing. No cash, no approval.

Red Stuff:

@ May 24, 2012 9:34 PM in Possible Leak in Residential Boiler

Here are two boilers. One is "Cold Start". It doesn't have a tankless heater like you do. The other set is a "Warm Start" boiler. Both are cleaned annually by myself.
Notice the red crap. Notice that the COld Start is full of Kibbles and Bits. Notice that the Warm Start has no Kibbles And Bits but both have the red stuff. The warm start has a lot more red stuff. Red stuff is normal with red dyed fuel. I have a customer that uses ULS over the road diesel in his boilers. The ash in his boilers is light brown.

Connections:

@ May 24, 2012 9:12 AM in Electrical question

I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree but I don't understand the reasoning when EACH AND EVERY NEUTRAL (WHITE) AND GROUND/EARTH WIRE IS ATTACHED TO THE NEUTRAL BAR IN THE PANEL! Or as it was explained to me that every "V" that leaves the generating facility has to go back through the earth or through the neutral system, That's why lost neutrals are so dangerous. And I've seen my share of them.
The only place I have ever seen something approaching what you describe is in a building I work in where it is 208 3 Phase. There are  6 Taco 112 circulators, all 110 volt single phase. The electrician used a 3 phase breaker to feed three circulators and a common ground to the three single phase motors. There are disconnects on the wall. The first time I changed a motor by turning off the switch on the wall, there was current in the white, neutral wire. Because current from the other running motors were sending back current to the neutral bar while running. Now, I shut off the 3 phase breakers to stop the zap. 
In the wires systems I mentioned in another post, ALL whites(neutrals) are wire nutted together.
But I don't know. I'm just commenting. It seems to me that if all the white Neutrals are all connected to the neutral bar in the panel, you can't get back-feeding. Because the neutral-grounding system is so robust.
Where I work, I see very quality wiring. I've only seen a few of the "3-wire out of the panel" and it was always done by out of State (Massachusetts) electricians. Usually they were from New York or New Jersey. The local electricians grouse about it but all say it is legal but a practice they don't do because it is a PITA and they consider it poor practice.
In no way am I defending it. But I've also never seen the breakers tied together with a wire like I see when someone needs a 220 double pole breaker and they only have single pole ones. Then, out comes the piece of bare wire and the switches are tied together.

3-Wire:

@ May 23, 2012 7:10 PM in Electrical question

I'm not a licensed electrician. But I'm aware and I watch.
It is my understanding, because I have seen it done often, to run three wire out of a panel making two citcuits. The red and black will be next to each other on separate circuits. You run the 3-wire to a accessible box where the black becomes one circuit and the red becomes the other circuit. The red becomes a black.  You may have 240 volts between the red and black but you could have 240 volts between any two blacks. It's the wire connection, not the color. All the white neutrals are tied together, making a common neutral.
I've asked electricians about all this, and have been told repeatedly that it is acceptable. The upper tiered electricians will almost always run a single pair (Black, White and bare or green ground) out to a circuit. The only time I have seen the "The Wire Circuits) done is by the hot shots with the beater trucks all seemed to know something that the "other" guys with the new trucks, nice equipment, and seemed to smoothly do their jobs.

Mixed Up:

@ May 23, 2012 6:59 AM in Need help converting from oversized CI Rad to CI baseboards

That would work for me.
The nice thing about the 4-way is that one side, the system side becomes a heating loop unto itself with its own circulator that only runs when the thermostat is calling but also runs the boiler pump, irregardless of the rest of the system. It will and can only take what the boiler water will deliver to it. But it is the long run times with ODR adjusted water that makes it so effective in a gravity system. If 115 degree water will satisfy the load, and you give it 125 degree water, it will take a long time to get the whole system evenly up to temperature and satisfy the thermostat. But, if the water is 140 degrees, you would get overheating in some radiators that are first fed. You can control the temperature going into the system/gravity loop by changing the re-set curve adjustment right on the valve.
Win-Win.

Finding Leaks:

@ May 22, 2012 7:04 AM in air in heating pipes

You can't isolate your system from the boiler the way it is piped.
If you called ME with your problem, I would take my air compressor and blow/drain the system. "I" can get 99% of the water out of the system with air but don't try it. I know what I am doing. After the system is drained, close all vents and pump the system to 25# PSIG on a gauge. Shut off the air. If the pressure drops, you have a leak somewhere.
It is a lot easier to hear a small air leak than a small water leak. Unless you have high frequency hearing loss, you will hear it. I hear crickets. They hurt my ears so badly that I must kill them immediately before I can continue. I have used a Stethoscope to listen for leaks when trying to find leaks to  fix freeze-ups.
You just need to be careful when using air. And that air eliminator might be a problem unless it is one with the removable can vent. Old Spirovents without the threaded top can be a problem

Hybrid Systems:

@ May 22, 2012 6:50 AM in Need help converting from oversized CI Rad to CI baseboards

The reason I mention 4-Way thermostatic mixers in a hybrid system is because it is so very difficult to figure out what the old dead wet-heads designed their gravity system for. So, if you have "modern" zones with higher low temperatures with DHW and higher temperature requirements, you can get a major kerfuffle in the boiler controllers.
With a 4-way in the gravity loop, you can then control the reset curve for the gravity zone and then maybe have the boiler running at a higher re-set curve. The gravity zone only circulates within itself. And takes only what water it needs. I did one that the gravity loop was running at 125 degrees when it was 12 degrees outside.
Its just a thought. If you are going to go nuts with all this stuff, you might as well go a step further and try a mixer in the gravity system. IMO, there is nothing better than a gravity system, being pumped with the proper temperature water. EVERY radiator in the system will become the same temperature over time unless there is a piping problem.

Smith Boiler:

@ May 22, 2012 5:59 AM in What size is this 20 Mills Boiler?

Because no one answered trhis,
You need to take the top covers off and count the sections as I said before. The height of the boiler can be meaningless because it either has a chamber and a base in which the boiler block assembly sits that makes it higher or it is a "low Set that sits on a 4" base.
You have to count the sections. The easiest way.
IMO.

Boiler Size:

@ May 21, 2012 4:42 PM in What size is this 20 Mills Boiler?

Lift off the top cover and count the sections. That will tell you what the output is. Either look on the rating plate that should be there or go to the Smith Web Site. The info is there. Or someone else may tell you what you want to know.

Seeking "experts" for work:

@ May 21, 2012 7:53 AM in Review by "experts"

I was reading a string on HVAC-Talk on "The Wall Of Shame" where potential customers post ads looking for someone to do work for them on Craig's List and other such sites.. They dictate terms. Will pay $20.00 per hour, they have bought all the equipment, the winning bid must have licences, insurance, permits, and warranty the work for two years, Blah, Blah, Blah.
One of those $100,000 per year twerps that couldn't find a roll of toilet paper if the holder was full and within reach of the toilet.
Remember, that guy is "A Job Creator".
Screw him! We're "The Wealth Creators". If we didn't work and get paid, the "Job Creators" wouldn't have any wealth to salt in their offshore bank accounts or pay their non-English speaking landscaping laborers to mow their lawn. The same ones who will immediately scatter like bird shot if you shout out "I need some ICE". You say the first part at a regular tone, and scream the "ICE" part.
Life is good.

Luck Problems:

@ May 21, 2012 7:38 AM in Making Radiator Pedestals

You are fortunate to have that resolution to that problem.
Mine usually goes like this.
I get a call from a "customer" who has bought ceramic floor tile for his second floor bathrooms. After I had taken out the radiators so they could paint behind them. Then, after buying the tile from the local big box tile center, arrangements had been made to tile the floor. 1/2" Durock Tile Board and tile just raised the floor at least 3/4". Now, the radiator is 3/4"+ above the union connections. Oh, and I forgot to mention that while the radiators were out, the painter removed all the plumbing fixtures and tiled over the closet flanges and the carpenter covered over the sink drains when he covered the walls with decorative bead board.
"We're all set for you to put things back."
Someone sold you a big batch of tile and now, your bathroom (on the second floor) is unusable. The radiators can not be reconnected because the only way to extend that 1 1/2" steel pipe is to remove the ceiling below and HOPE I can get it apart.
The closet flanges are below the floor and need to be addressed. Maybe rip up the new floor or the ceilings below. The drains on the Pedestal Lavs may be in the wrong place and can not be connected. I don't have time for this crap. I should have been in some loop to add my expertise to the job. That guy that your contractor mentioned that does work for him on the side and charges $65.00 per hour and you could save money? Call him. He's a lot smarter than I am. And get someone from the big orange box store to install your fixtures.
They built boxes around the radiators I am told.
Life in the 21st century.

Simple Problems:

@ May 21, 2012 7:19 AM in Cold showers?

You have a simple problem that is far too complicated for a quick answer here. There are too many paths to go down to find your problem. Most of us are not "Trial & Error" mechanics. in other words, we do not change parts until the problem goes away.
Your "plumber" may be good at putting pipes together but his troubleshooting skills need some work. For example, what you describe as a "tank" seems to be a bladder tank. And not a hydro-pneumatic expansion tank. With "Extrol" type bladder tanks, the only way I could truly tell if the bladder had failed and the tank was full of water was not by tapping it on the side, but unscrewing it from the fitting and having a 50#+ object crash to the floor, demolishing anything in the way. That is why I always tie a bucket to the fitting and let the tank fall a few inches into the bucket rather than a few feet of vertical drop.
A very experienced professional here was faced with a similar problem which was stumping him. He asked for help here. He found it and found the problem. You have a similar problem. Your "plumber" seems to be clueless as to the problem and may be clueless as to how to check a bladder tank.
I suggest you get out your wallet and find someone that is a little more experienced than you and your "plumber".
I could personally find your problem in less than 10 minutes. I've done that after multiple "others" haven't found it. It's kind of like knowing how grass grows. Simple but complicated.

And then there is DHW:

@ May 20, 2012 7:54 PM in heat load

And then there was domestic hot water. That 6500 BTU number is about half of what you get with a 4500 watt element in an electric hot water heater. Put that in a 6 gallon electric hot water heater and try to take a hot shower.
The heating load "sees" design day a few times a year. Domestic potable hot water "sees" design day, every day unless you don't use hot water for a day.
I know that if I ignore DHW heating loads, I will be doing so at my own peril.

Gas Pressure:

@ May 20, 2012 7:43 PM in yellow flames, combustion problem?

Did you check the gas pressure in the house, after the meter/regulator? Just because the gas stove seems to be running correctly doesn't mean that the building pressure is. The stove has its own regulator. It is possible that the stove regulator is compensating but the boiler isn't. If the pilot and the burner are the same color, I'd not be looking there if you have changed the gas valve.
With oil burners? First, check the nozzle pressure. If it ain't right, it won't run right.

Dealing:

@ May 19, 2012 9:37 PM in Tight Quarters

I personally bitch and moan about it and do whatever I have to do.

CI Radiation:

@ May 18, 2012 7:38 PM in Need help converting from oversized CI Rad to CI baseboards

You have a Mod-Con boiler that has the reset curve improperly set.
I also think that that boiler may not be piped as per the manufacturers specific instructions. If you don't have another circulator pump that isn't shown, it is not piped as a primary/secondary piping system.
Pathetic. They can't read. What you have now is not that much better than what you had. If done properly, it would be way ahead of it all.
IMO

Getting Pumped:

@ May 18, 2012 7:32 AM in Need help converting from oversized CI Rad to CI baseboards

I thought it might be "pumped.
Put in variable or multispeed pumps and pump them slowly. Use ODR and it will balance out better.
If you  use a 4-way mixer, you will avoid a cold boiler which will be a disaster with oil.

Nipples:

@ May 18, 2012 7:26 AM in DE-Knuckleheading, Upgrading & Converting a Slant/Fin Liberty

And you did it all with stock, off the shelf nipples and fittings.
Go figure.
Those that know and do it right, never get a chance to do a nice job like that. Usually, the customer just lives with it or finds another "slug" to try and fix it.
Your work is impeccable. 

Basement Heat Loss:

@ May 17, 2012 7:15 PM in Calculating basement heat loss

Wrong.
In a cellar, you take two measurements. Above grade which .29 may be OK. But from grade down to the footing, .07 is usually used. Because the ground temperature may be 50 degrees at the footing and 32 degrees or above at grade. The only part of the wall that will be at outside temperature is what is exposed to the air. Its always been my understanding that from grade down, you almost consider it an insulated wall.
The slant fin tables for windows above grade is taken from the higher rating. I think that I used .54 if it is bare block.

Room Load:

@ May 17, 2012 7:01 PM in Need help converting from oversized CI Rad to CI baseboards

You need to do this, IMO.
Measure the radiation in each and every room by measuring the radiators and determine the output. Measure the cubic feet of the room and the area of windows. Compare the room size to the output of the heat emitting units. I'm sure that you will see some pattern. You can then do an accurate heat loss calculation on the rooms. You will see a pattern.
The problems you are having now is because someone re-piped a gravity system and it is totally out of balance. In MY minority opinion, once you try to "improve" a gravity system by splitting it up, you are better served by pumping it. Especially if the system worked well before it was split up.
"Pipes increase as do their squares." That means that if you have a 2" pipe, 10' long, filled with water, it will take four 1" pipes, 10' long filled with water to equal the water content. If the person who split the system can't give you a comprehensive and understandable explaination of that concept, they screwed up the system. IMO, you can't mix Cast Iron Baseboard with free standing radiators in a working gravity system.
It's not rocket and space science. Its really very simple once you understand the concepts.
IMO, the only way to make a gravity system that was split and isn't working properly, is to pump it. Make it Primary/Secondary with thermostatic mixers (like a 4-way) and set it up with ODR. That way, the circulators will force water of the proper temperature through the radiators on the zone or circuit and not overheat the radiation. The longer the circulator runs with cooler water, the better the system mixes and balances.
IMO.