Heating Help

LA city School System.

@ June 14, 2013 9:35 AM in How the Europeans do it?

Cheramoya Street School Elementary, 1st through 6th.
Joseph LeConte, Junior High 7th through 9th,
Hollywood High School,  10th through 12th.
Graduated, Summer, 1962
The only bussing I ever did was taking the MTA city bus with student bus passes from Franklin & Bronson Ave's to La Brea and Highland Ave's. That's after a 1.5 mile walk down the canyon to the public bus stop. I lived on the edge of Griffith Park.

Old boat mud moorings:

@ June 14, 2013 9:15 AM in NEED User/Owners Manual for Old American Standard Boiler

That boat mooring block is rated at 800,000 gross gas input. The IBR rating is in the low 500,000's. Not so far out for the (usually) vastly oversized heating boilers of the day. Unless it is a steamer, in which case, it may have been properly sized for the radiation. Unlikely.
Someone needs to do some calculations on that potential  marine object. A modern sealed combustion unit could probably fit between the smallest available unit and the IBR net rating.  

Time:

@ June 13, 2013 6:45 AM in I want one of these!

Some people just have far too much time on their hands.

Not stated poorly:

@ June 13, 2013 6:40 AM in How the Europeans do it?

That's not stated poorly, just in a way that those of us with "learning Disabilities" intuitively understand.
What's missed today in education as opposed to 50+ years ago is the opportunity to be exposed to other ways of thinking.
So, here's one of my many learning disabilities. Detailed memory that can be instantly recalled. It's fragmentary. There are seven learning styles but today, there are only three taught. If you do not learn in those three styles, school was not designed for you. Back 50 +/1 years ago in the Los Angeles City School System, I think that most styles were accommodated. We had shops from Junior High through High School and the Junior College system was an extension of the trade school system. You could get a free college education in California and go to Junioe College and become a machinist, welder or draftsman. For free. Then, the great Ronald Reagan eliminated all those programs. Those programs taught me to learn and see where what was taught in basic math class had an application in the real world and shop classes. There was a connection. I am numerically challenged. Numbers have littler meaning to me. There are 10 symbols in the numerical alphabet (1 through 0) and symbols that make up the numerical alphabet making up an infinite combination of number words.. There are 26 symbols in the English word alphabet with symbols that make up the infinite number of words. In the English language alone. I learned that from watching TV. Watching PBS Nova, years ago. Shakespeare had a written word vocabulary of over 33,000 words, some of which he made up and are still in use today. There was a series on PBS by a man named James Burke called "Connections" where he started a show with a fact that everyone knows, and spent an hour showing how that fact was connected to another fact. At the end of the hour, he had come back to the first fact. Like James Watt and the Steam Engine was used to pump water from mines.
When I started in my work life, I knew little. But much of what I learned in the LA City School System carried me along. I learned to brass braze in metal shop in the seventh grade. When I took my Journeyman's plumber exam, the practical part was to silver braze a wrought copper fitting to a piece of copper tube. Our instructor never covered that. When it came time to do it, no one in our group knew how to do it. We were dismissed. We would have to come back. I made an issue that I could do it, that I just never had the opportunity to silver braze copper. The regulators needed to be set at such which they were and if I could at least light the torch (Oxy-Acetylene), could I try it? I cracked a tad of Oxygen so not to get the black floaters and light it up. The inspector stated "I thought you didn't know how to do this". I told him that I told you that I did, I just never had the opportunity to do it with silver braze. I passed.
Like I said, I'm numerically challenged. The "average" person can remember seven numbers ahead and three numbers back. "1,2,3,4,5,6,7, 7,6,5". The measurement if 124 3/8" has seven numbers If you can't remember a second set of numbers, you're normal. I'm lucky to remember three. But I never forget a formula. Because it is a word to me where a random number sequence means nothing. I find the metric system far easier to use because that is 315.4 mm. Four numbers. The metric number is easier to work. Divide 124 3/8" into 4 equal parts. Now try 315.4 mm.
Schools should be teaching students how to learn. Then they can be learning their whole life.

Steaming Stills:

@ June 13, 2013 5:35 AM in piping steam boilers to an alcohol still

You don't really need a steam boiler to distill spirits, just a heat medium above the boiling point of alcohol. After the period in the fermentation tank, you only need to get the mash above 160 degrees or something like that to boil the alcohol out of the mash. That is alcohol in the form of steam. That's why a Still needs to be close to a cold water source so the evaporator/condenser can cool the steam so it condenses into liquid alcohol. During a hot, dry summer back up in the woods, there may not be enough cool water to run a Still, causing a shortage of quality product.
I used to work on a commercial Still that used 14# steam. The 14# steam was so that the steam temperature was higher so the Still boiled the mash quicker. Once the alcohol was boiled out of the mash, it was all done. It could have been done with hot water.
If you're just trying to make something to boil off alcohol from a mash product, you can use hot water. The Stills that those good old boys make way back up in the woods aren't any example of high tech modern alcohol extraction. They use what works for them.
It might be illegal what you propose. My comments aren't to address how to do anything illegal.

A great idea:

@ May 26, 2013 9:45 AM in Icynene insulation!!!

Icynene is a great idea. I see it used all the time. Especially on old work that I have been on before the install of the Icynene. It has always been my understanding that the air space around NM wire was part of the "Listing". For cooling purposes. That's why there is a limit on how many wires you can put in a hole or conduit. I have jobs where many wire circuits were run along rim joists along with heating pipes and potable water pipes with zone valve and control valves. Completely buried in Icynene. And it is toxic if you scrape the stuff off and try to heat it to solder.
Then, the roof systems. Be sure that your rook has been replaced with Ice & Water membrane. The "Experts" all think this is a wonderful way to stop leaks. The moisture inside the envelope can not get through and the wood covering rots below the wrap. I have already seen rotten valley bottoms. There happens to be anaerobic bacteria in wood. They thrive in a no oxygen environment.
There's no free lunch. I've been seeing 200 YO houses with the only rot being from failed flashing's around corners, windows and doors. Suddenly have accelerated rot all over the structures.
The laws of unintended consequences? That no good deed goes unpunished?

Radiant Ceiling:

@ May 11, 2013 6:34 AM in Old System to new

That was a first class system that never reached its potential. It needed Outdoor Re-set (ODR) and must have had a a thermostatic mixer for the radiant part. The water going to the radiant part should not ever go above 150 degrees or it can crack the hard finish plaster. Perhaps someone before you screwed it up and parts are missing. I know that you are exaggerating your fuel consumption because the systems I have seen aren't that bad on fuel unless someone screws them up. Old systems usually only had a couple of inches of vermiculite insulation above the coils. If there is a second floor, add more insulation.
If someone removed all the piping so that there are only two pipes sticking through the ceiling. I hope that you didn't get the poop prize because it sounds like some dubber didn't know what they were doing. Now that someone has removed all the piping, it will be hard to figure out what the old dead guys had in mind and what they did.

Pricing Aluminum:

@ May 11, 2013 6:17 AM in Need Advice

We don't discuss pricing here.
You couldn't GIVE me an aluminum boiler, even if you installed it for me for free,
There are 75+ years old CI boilers still out there. How many 25 YO aluminum boilers have you seen?

Single bowl sinks:

@ May 8, 2013 6:56 PM in 20+lb garbage disposal in large SS sink?

I have lost count of the number of Elkay PSRS 3322 ("S" means single bowl) or LRS3322 sinks in  my career. It is basically the only sink I recommend of you have a 36" sink base. Elkay isn't the only SS sink manufacturer. Kohler has a line. They will all support standard food waste grinders, especially the ISE Evolution series.
IMO, avoid cast iron porcelain sinks like bad hangover. Over time, they will rust under the seal between the counter-top and the sink. The finish will dull, and it can wear off or chip. Depending on the cleaning impulsiveness of your wife. I have seen the finish worn off around the throat from scrubbing with abrasive cleaners. The cast iron sinks aren't very deep. If you are thinking about a double bowl CI, by a 25" single and you will get one bigger bowl than the two smaller double bowls. If you get a 33" sink with the smaller bowl on the left, the larger bowl is the same size as the single bowl sink.
You can get the SS bowls in deeper models but I haven't seen them to be all that useful for the additional price.
I have no idea why Elkay told you what they did. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. And if you are worried, you can always slide a block of wood or a piece of 3" PVC pipe under the disposal. I've never needed to.
If you are using a composite or stone top, I suggest NOT using under mount bowls. I have seen a large number of them pull away from the counter-top. What a mess.
My opinion only.

Conductance:

@ May 7, 2013 10:59 PM in Copper pipe pitting

Is this on a private water system like a well? When you tested the water, was the conductivity high?
The only times I see this is with water that tests with a lot of TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) a low PH, aligning stars and the moon in the seventh house. I think that there are grounding, neutral earth issues but no one can explain it. I see it with water systems with well pumps and circulating pumps. High sodium is often present.
I am constantly grounding myself out on wall plate screws with my pocket knife to avoid the big shock when the capacitor in my body needs a discharge. I prefer the spark to travel out the end of my pocket knife than my finger.

Filters:

@ April 28, 2013 8:25 AM in Carlin 1150FD Flame Failures

Did you add a couple of spin-on Garber type filters or add another POS canister type that lets all that crud slip by?
Notice who now owns GarBer filters? General Filters. They know that the competition had a better product. Diesel trucks and tractors do NOT use yarn spun filter elements in their fuel or hydraulic systems. Only pleated paper packs. Anyone still using cloth filters on oil is on the edge of being a knucklehead.

Painless

@ April 28, 2013 8:14 AM in brass nipple

Try this. I've done it for years.
A piece of 3/4" wood strapping, 16" long or so. Either 1/2" copper tube clips with zip screws or 1/2" copper "Van" hangers clipped to the pipe and after you have the correct nipples in place, push the strapping up the back of the sink. It will pull the escutcheons tight to the back if the sink.
Use Teflon Tape on the threads so you can get them back off someday.

Water Softners:

@ April 28, 2013 8:04 AM in Hot Water Recirculation pipe erosion

Adding a water softener can make the problem worse. The conductivity of the water is as important as the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS). In water treatment, you usually try to correct one problem and create another. If the PH is low (less than 7.0) and the TDS is high with high sodium and chloride levels in the water, the potable water systems become storage batteries. Especially in the potable hot side. The spinning impellers a can add static electricity. Dissolved solids stick to the inside of the pipe and the solids will give a path to the copper tube. The pitting is in such a place.
IMO, many large buildings, especially ones that have multiple additions, have undiagnosed grounding and neutral issues. Especially if 3 phase is involved. Many electricians I meet haven't a clue about unbalanced 3 phase loads and what can happen.

Tigerloops:

@ April 28, 2013 7:39 AM in Riello on Buderus Problem

Funny to see all the support for Tigerloops now.
I was cleaning out old files and found a bunch of saved Oil Tech Talk postings from over 10 years ago.  There was a section on Tigerloops. You should see the railing against them, that they were the biggest POS that ever came down the highway. Now, they are universally accepted. Except by a few old knuckleheads who can't or won't learn or change.

Poor planning:

@ April 28, 2013 7:25 AM in brass nipple

Another prime example of poor planning on the part of someone else (not you) and they expect you to solve all their problems. While the poor planner collects a 20% commission and you get to spend hours of uncompensated time to come up with a solution for THEIR oversight. While they argue with you on how to fix the problem and not pay you for your experience.
#1:  The powder coating will fall off. They will call you first.
#2:  That's what longer nipples with escutcheons are for.
#3:   After the valve was roughed in by you or others, and after someone went to the trouble to point out where the finish needed to go for the installation, someone decided to do it in a way that was "convenient" for them. Now, it is flucked. For you to fix.

Back when I used to do new work like that, I would go to great pains to rough the valve in. Plaster grounds in place and at the proper distance. I would draw out instructions on a piece of wood, explain to the contractor and whomever, what needed to be done for the proper installation.
When I checked before trim out, the plaster ground was in the dumpster, the tile installer added an extra 3/4" spacing to the studs and the escutcheon is tiled in and all the screw holes are filled with grout and behind the tile. Now needing an extension kit that isn't available unless special ordered in oiled pewter with a 6 week wait. And no one is going to pay for the extra. Oh, and the black nipples I pit in as throw always so they could cut the tile holes? In the bottom of the tub where they put a rust spot on the white finish of the shower or tub and the hole is tiled over. And some major tile cutting is needed on small brittle tiles which I am expected to cut without breaking them.
There's never enough time to do it right. But always time for someone like you or I to do it over.
3 to 4 wraps of blue monster Teflon tape on each thread will not leak.

Basic Boiler Control Wiring:

@ April 27, 2013 7:38 AM in Automatic Water Feeder shuts off power at low water? Plumber says it's the thermostat

The "Plumber" doesn't understand basic boiler control wiring.
If he doesn't understand how it works, he needs to stop futzing and trying to DX control wiring because he clearly doesn't know the rats front from the back.
You need someone else that knows how it is supposed to work. The thermostat is nor normally wired into the safety control circuit. I say it that way because there may be some circumstance that I am not aware of. The Thermostat tells the burner to start. The safety control circuits must all be closed for the burner to start. The "Plumber" should be able to show you how the thermostat is causing the problem. Not just make some empirical statement that through FM, the burner won't start. It's something else. Experience will lead the way. The "Plumber" needs more experience.

Nipple Sizes:

@ April 27, 2013 7:29 AM in brass nipple

I don't know what your application is, but I have never had a problem with any nipple getting a few more turns to get to those sizes. Like a 1/2"X 1 3/4" would be a 2" nipple, with Teflon Tape.
If the "Make-In" for a 1/2" nipple is 1/2" for each side, a 1 1/2" nipple should have 1/2" showing between the fittings. I always have less and need to use a unused nipple to judge the length.
I have third world nipple holders that I made and I can make any size I want with my Ridgid 1" to 2" ratcheting die stock. I can make 1/2" and 3/4" with an old one piece die stock by flipping the die over and threading from the back while holding the threaded piece in the third world nipple holder. I can make crooked threads on 1" to 2" threads to make crooked nipples. I can't on the sizes less than 1". Its why I never bought the threading add on for my 300 Power Drive.
Judging by the number of 1/2" nipples and pipes I see tightened with 24" pipe wrenches, I don't understand what your issue is.
I've made nipples with male and female Copper St. adapters. Some ended up leaking on the soldered parts after time.
What are you trying to do?

Eye of the Tiger:

@ April 25, 2013 8:45 PM in Riello on Buderus Problem

Get the two pipe kit for the Riello, Connect it to a Tigerloop Ultra, use the one pipe to the Roth tank, and your problems will completely go away.
Tigerloops ROCK.

Joking:

@ April 23, 2013 7:11 PM in This caught my eye...

Rob,
In my experience, there is no end to what someone will do to save a buck.

Wrong:

@ April 23, 2013 7:01 PM in What's Wrong

PRV aside, that 1/2" flex gas connector is rather slim don't some of us think?

CO and Smoke:

@ April 17, 2013 7:28 AM in Strange CO problem

If you are using a MAPP or Propane flame thrower to solder, it could have been CO. If it is a Air Acetylene "B" tank, it is the smoke and gas. I only use my "B" tank for soldering and I always check for a smoke detector before lighting up. I suffer from a rapid loss of serenity when they go off. I have accounts that have dedicated systems where I call the fire department to come and pull the box until I am done.
You need to buy a personal CO detector like a UGI CO75 so that you will always know. You never know where you will find the silent but deadly killer. I found it on a hotel I stayed on  the way to Florida in Rocky Mount, NC. They didn't believe me and it is still there. It is as accurate as my Bacharach Fyerite Insight when put side by side on an exhaust.

Air vents:

@ April 16, 2013 7:09 PM in Will air in line effect heat output of BB

I thought of this one while flying home tonight.
Six years ago, I got a call from the cousin of a customer. His plumber had fired him because his house was an old antique  crib. It is a two story house. The front part is heated by 1950's Cast Iron radiators on one zone on two floors. The back part is heated by fin tube baseboard. Series looped through two floors. The boiler had been replaced a number of years ago by the biggest boiler hack that ever picked up a roll of solder. Clutter is a kind word. I guess that there are vents on the baseboards and I'm sure that there are jet tees on the ends of the baseboards. The act of draining and venting this fiasco drove the last plumber away. The way the boiler is piped would make many here suffer from head explosion. But it works fine.
The first Fall, I "Purged" all the water from the system with compressed air. I did NOT open a single jet tee or low point drain. In the Spring, I tested it with compressed air and the system is tight. I purged the baseboard part through the return. When the water starts purging back hot, I stop the flow to see if the circulator will do it. If it does, I'm done. I vent the CI radiator with a radiator key.
If it didn't work, I wouldn't be saying that it works if it doesn't.