Heating Help

Radiant Ceiling:

@ May 11, 2013 6:34 AM in Old System to new

That was a first class system that never reached its potential. It needed Outdoor Re-set (ODR) and must have had a a thermostatic mixer for the radiant part. The water going to the radiant part should not ever go above 150 degrees or it can crack the hard finish plaster. Perhaps someone before you screwed it up and parts are missing. I know that you are exaggerating your fuel consumption because the systems I have seen aren't that bad on fuel unless someone screws them up. Old systems usually only had a couple of inches of vermiculite insulation above the coils. If there is a second floor, add more insulation.
If someone removed all the piping so that there are only two pipes sticking through the ceiling. I hope that you didn't get the poop prize because it sounds like some dubber didn't know what they were doing. Now that someone has removed all the piping, it will be hard to figure out what the old dead guys had in mind and what they did.

Pricing Aluminum:

@ May 11, 2013 6:17 AM in Need Advice

We don't discuss pricing here.
You couldn't GIVE me an aluminum boiler, even if you installed it for me for free,
There are 75+ years old CI boilers still out there. How many 25 YO aluminum boilers have you seen?

Single bowl sinks:

@ May 8, 2013 6:56 PM in 20+lb garbage disposal in large SS sink?

I have lost count of the number of Elkay PSRS 3322 ("S" means single bowl) or LRS3322 sinks in  my career. It is basically the only sink I recommend of you have a 36" sink base. Elkay isn't the only SS sink manufacturer. Kohler has a line. They will all support standard food waste grinders, especially the ISE Evolution series.
IMO, avoid cast iron porcelain sinks like bad hangover. Over time, they will rust under the seal between the counter-top and the sink. The finish will dull, and it can wear off or chip. Depending on the cleaning impulsiveness of your wife. I have seen the finish worn off around the throat from scrubbing with abrasive cleaners. The cast iron sinks aren't very deep. If you are thinking about a double bowl CI, by a 25" single and you will get one bigger bowl than the two smaller double bowls. If you get a 33" sink with the smaller bowl on the left, the larger bowl is the same size as the single bowl sink.
You can get the SS bowls in deeper models but I haven't seen them to be all that useful for the additional price.
I have no idea why Elkay told you what they did. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. And if you are worried, you can always slide a block of wood or a piece of 3" PVC pipe under the disposal. I've never needed to.
If you are using a composite or stone top, I suggest NOT using under mount bowls. I have seen a large number of them pull away from the counter-top. What a mess.
My opinion only.

Conductance:

@ May 7, 2013 10:59 PM in Copper pipe pitting

Is this on a private water system like a well? When you tested the water, was the conductivity high?
The only times I see this is with water that tests with a lot of TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) a low PH, aligning stars and the moon in the seventh house. I think that there are grounding, neutral earth issues but no one can explain it. I see it with water systems with well pumps and circulating pumps. High sodium is often present.
I am constantly grounding myself out on wall plate screws with my pocket knife to avoid the big shock when the capacitor in my body needs a discharge. I prefer the spark to travel out the end of my pocket knife than my finger.

Filters:

@ April 28, 2013 8:25 AM in Carlin 1150FD Flame Failures

Did you add a couple of spin-on Garber type filters or add another POS canister type that lets all that crud slip by?
Notice who now owns GarBer filters? General Filters. They know that the competition had a better product. Diesel trucks and tractors do NOT use yarn spun filter elements in their fuel or hydraulic systems. Only pleated paper packs. Anyone still using cloth filters on oil is on the edge of being a knucklehead.

Painless

@ April 28, 2013 8:14 AM in brass nipple

Try this. I've done it for years.
A piece of 3/4" wood strapping, 16" long or so. Either 1/2" copper tube clips with zip screws or 1/2" copper "Van" hangers clipped to the pipe and after you have the correct nipples in place, push the strapping up the back of the sink. It will pull the escutcheons tight to the back if the sink.
Use Teflon Tape on the threads so you can get them back off someday.

Water Softners:

@ April 28, 2013 8:04 AM in Hot Water Recirculation pipe erosion

Adding a water softener can make the problem worse. The conductivity of the water is as important as the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS). In water treatment, you usually try to correct one problem and create another. If the PH is low (less than 7.0) and the TDS is high with high sodium and chloride levels in the water, the potable water systems become storage batteries. Especially in the potable hot side. The spinning impellers a can add static electricity. Dissolved solids stick to the inside of the pipe and the solids will give a path to the copper tube. The pitting is in such a place.
IMO, many large buildings, especially ones that have multiple additions, have undiagnosed grounding and neutral issues. Especially if 3 phase is involved. Many electricians I meet haven't a clue about unbalanced 3 phase loads and what can happen.

Tigerloops:

@ April 28, 2013 7:39 AM in Riello on Buderus Problem

Funny to see all the support for Tigerloops now.
I was cleaning out old files and found a bunch of saved Oil Tech Talk postings from over 10 years ago.  There was a section on Tigerloops. You should see the railing against them, that they were the biggest POS that ever came down the highway. Now, they are universally accepted. Except by a few old knuckleheads who can't or won't learn or change.

Poor planning:

@ April 28, 2013 7:25 AM in brass nipple

Another prime example of poor planning on the part of someone else (not you) and they expect you to solve all their problems. While the poor planner collects a 20% commission and you get to spend hours of uncompensated time to come up with a solution for THEIR oversight. While they argue with you on how to fix the problem and not pay you for your experience.
#1:  The powder coating will fall off. They will call you first.
#2:  That's what longer nipples with escutcheons are for.
#3:   After the valve was roughed in by you or others, and after someone went to the trouble to point out where the finish needed to go for the installation, someone decided to do it in a way that was "convenient" for them. Now, it is flucked. For you to fix.

Back when I used to do new work like that, I would go to great pains to rough the valve in. Plaster grounds in place and at the proper distance. I would draw out instructions on a piece of wood, explain to the contractor and whomever, what needed to be done for the proper installation.
When I checked before trim out, the plaster ground was in the dumpster, the tile installer added an extra 3/4" spacing to the studs and the escutcheon is tiled in and all the screw holes are filled with grout and behind the tile. Now needing an extension kit that isn't available unless special ordered in oiled pewter with a 6 week wait. And no one is going to pay for the extra. Oh, and the black nipples I pit in as throw always so they could cut the tile holes? In the bottom of the tub where they put a rust spot on the white finish of the shower or tub and the hole is tiled over. And some major tile cutting is needed on small brittle tiles which I am expected to cut without breaking them.
There's never enough time to do it right. But always time for someone like you or I to do it over.
3 to 4 wraps of blue monster Teflon tape on each thread will not leak.

Basic Boiler Control Wiring:

@ April 27, 2013 7:38 AM in Automatic Water Feeder shuts off power at low water? Plumber says it's the thermostat

The "Plumber" doesn't understand basic boiler control wiring.
If he doesn't understand how it works, he needs to stop futzing and trying to DX control wiring because he clearly doesn't know the rats front from the back.
You need someone else that knows how it is supposed to work. The thermostat is nor normally wired into the safety control circuit. I say it that way because there may be some circumstance that I am not aware of. The Thermostat tells the burner to start. The safety control circuits must all be closed for the burner to start. The "Plumber" should be able to show you how the thermostat is causing the problem. Not just make some empirical statement that through FM, the burner won't start. It's something else. Experience will lead the way. The "Plumber" needs more experience.

Nipple Sizes:

@ April 27, 2013 7:29 AM in brass nipple

I don't know what your application is, but I have never had a problem with any nipple getting a few more turns to get to those sizes. Like a 1/2"X 1 3/4" would be a 2" nipple, with Teflon Tape.
If the "Make-In" for a 1/2" nipple is 1/2" for each side, a 1 1/2" nipple should have 1/2" showing between the fittings. I always have less and need to use a unused nipple to judge the length.
I have third world nipple holders that I made and I can make any size I want with my Ridgid 1" to 2" ratcheting die stock. I can make 1/2" and 3/4" with an old one piece die stock by flipping the die over and threading from the back while holding the threaded piece in the third world nipple holder. I can make crooked threads on 1" to 2" threads to make crooked nipples. I can't on the sizes less than 1". Its why I never bought the threading add on for my 300 Power Drive.
Judging by the number of 1/2" nipples and pipes I see tightened with 24" pipe wrenches, I don't understand what your issue is.
I've made nipples with male and female Copper St. adapters. Some ended up leaking on the soldered parts after time.
What are you trying to do?

Eye of the Tiger:

@ April 25, 2013 8:45 PM in Riello on Buderus Problem

Get the two pipe kit for the Riello, Connect it to a Tigerloop Ultra, use the one pipe to the Roth tank, and your problems will completely go away.
Tigerloops ROCK.

Joking:

@ April 23, 2013 7:11 PM in This caught my eye...

Rob,
In my experience, there is no end to what someone will do to save a buck.

Wrong:

@ April 23, 2013 7:01 PM in What's Wrong

PRV aside, that 1/2" flex gas connector is rather slim don't some of us think?

CO and Smoke:

@ April 17, 2013 7:28 AM in Strange CO problem

If you are using a MAPP or Propane flame thrower to solder, it could have been CO. If it is a Air Acetylene "B" tank, it is the smoke and gas. I only use my "B" tank for soldering and I always check for a smoke detector before lighting up. I suffer from a rapid loss of serenity when they go off. I have accounts that have dedicated systems where I call the fire department to come and pull the box until I am done.
You need to buy a personal CO detector like a UGI CO75 so that you will always know. You never know where you will find the silent but deadly killer. I found it on a hotel I stayed on  the way to Florida in Rocky Mount, NC. They didn't believe me and it is still there. It is as accurate as my Bacharach Fyerite Insight when put side by side on an exhaust.

Air vents:

@ April 16, 2013 7:09 PM in Will air in line effect heat output of BB

I thought of this one while flying home tonight.
Six years ago, I got a call from the cousin of a customer. His plumber had fired him because his house was an old antique  crib. It is a two story house. The front part is heated by 1950's Cast Iron radiators on one zone on two floors. The back part is heated by fin tube baseboard. Series looped through two floors. The boiler had been replaced a number of years ago by the biggest boiler hack that ever picked up a roll of solder. Clutter is a kind word. I guess that there are vents on the baseboards and I'm sure that there are jet tees on the ends of the baseboards. The act of draining and venting this fiasco drove the last plumber away. The way the boiler is piped would make many here suffer from head explosion. But it works fine.
The first Fall, I "Purged" all the water from the system with compressed air. I did NOT open a single jet tee or low point drain. In the Spring, I tested it with compressed air and the system is tight. I purged the baseboard part through the return. When the water starts purging back hot, I stop the flow to see if the circulator will do it. If it does, I'm done. I vent the CI radiator with a radiator key.
If it didn't work, I wouldn't be saying that it works if it doesn't.

Other worlds:

@ April 15, 2013 7:29 PM in Will air in line effect heat output of BB

All those micro-bubbles and such work In your world.
In my world, the only reason I put jet tees on the ends of baseboards is to keep big mouths from yapping about my not using Jet Tees and how do you get the air out. You purge it out.
The house I built in 2000, and have lived in since then, has never been vented since it went into service. No Spirovents or unusual air elimination devices. All Taco #400 float vents are screwed down tight. Every job I do has generous purging built into it. I have a ball valve on the return with a drain above it. I put a hose into a bucket, close the ball valve, open the drain and purge away. I turn the fast fill by-pass and let it rip. As long as the water is flowing, it can be up to 28#. I don't care. When the water comes back hot, I know it is going. And also that the air bubbles stop coming. On to the next zone. I leave the pressure at a minimum of 20+#. It will settle out in time.
I drain and turn on a lot of houses every year with heat. I have not ever been through the aggravation I've seen here. And if you feed the cold into the bottom of the boiler, you always know when the hot water is coming back. I don't have any, but if I had a system that fed through the expansion tank and then only fed cold water into the system, I'd be putting a back feed on the bottom of the boiler so I knew for sure that the zone was working. Put your hand on the return and you can feel the temperature going up and down until it goes up and you can't hold on.
Keep it simple.
And even if someone tucks carpet into the baseboard, the pipe still gets hot. If it's working, you shouldn't be able to hold your fingers on it. If you can't, it's working. If you can, it isn't working.
If you hear air running through the top floor, raise the pressure. Squish the bubbles. The hot water will absorb the bubbles.
Don't turn it into a project that needs numerous conferences.

$200.00

@ April 14, 2013 2:51 PM in This caught my eye...

If you gave me $200.00 to take it, I wouldn't take it. If it's sooted up like you suggest, it is very difficult to clean.
Some cheapster with a lot of time on their hands might like it for  project, but not me.
Did the bank hire a licensed plumber to replace the water heater and were the proper permits obtained with the proper inspections done?
Banks are the largest legal criminal enterprise in the USA. Too big to fail and too big to need permits and inspections.
If I did that where I work, the plumbing inspector would be having me go before The Board for disciplinary action.
And isn't the age of that heater make it fall under the pilot regs? All the ones that I have installed have all these safety devices on the bottom.

Testing Allanson Transformer on gas burner

@ April 12, 2013 7:16 AM in Testing Allanson Transformer on gas burner

Is there a way to test a secondary one end ground transformer? I've never been able to accurately test Mid-Point oil burner transformers and the old screw driver trick usually worked just fine.
But I got a call yesterday that this burner wouldn't run on gas so I told them to switch to oil which is just a flip of a switch.
The burner (on gas) would go through the sequences and the solenoid would open but no pilot flame for the trial. I messed around and checked the gas pressure in the pilot pressure. There's an "Issue" with that but it isn't the problem. It then would light and run. But after numerous cycles, it stopped. Futzing around with the secondary lead, it started, then stopped after a while. I put my amp clamp in the primary (120 volts) wires and when the call for the gas valve and transformer was made, it showed amperage and always started. It never misfired again but I don't trust it. And I'm not a "Parts Changer". Since first having the gas part of this burner started a couple of months ago, the gas side has run flawlessly until yesterday.
I have one of those transformer testers that I have had for years but doesn't work on the mid point transformers Maybe if I can find it, it would work on this one.
Looking for guidance.
Its an Allanson Cat. # 1092 PF with 6,000 secondary voltage.

Or my favorite:

@ April 10, 2013 10:25 PM in Off-Season Savings?

Or my favorite:
Step over a ten dollar bill to pick up a dime.
You sound like you have the capability. Don't be alarmed when you realize that you have spent hours of uncompensated time on their problem. Only to have theem ignore whatever you come up with. They're smart we're (you) aren't. If it is more than one that you answer to, there will always be a power struggle between two or more and anything you say that backs up one, will be over ridden by another.
I'd be wishing their problem health, happiness and long distance.

Kitchen Faucets:

@ April 10, 2013 6:57 PM in Single faucet issues

Everyone thinks this is funny. I don't. I've seen it more than once.
Is this a "Pull Out" single lever? If so, pull out the spray head and remove it from the hose. See if the water stream is better. Shoot it into a pot and see if the "white" goes away. If it does, there is a backflow device inside the spray handle. It will come out easily if you futz with it. Take it out and see if it is better and the "white" goes away.
The "white" is caused by debris blocking something, The "White" is from a form of cavitation. Put the milky water in a glass and come back in an hour or more. If it has gone away, it's air being put into suspension in the water. I see it all the time when I turn the water back on in houses.

Cleaning Munchkins:

@ April 10, 2013 6:41 PM in Never Cleaned Munchkin 80M

Maybe your old drafty house has more heat loss than you realize.
I find that some who come here can not differentiate between rising gas prices and falling cubic foot usage.  There's a relationship.
That said, if your Munchkin wasn't "regurgitating" exhaust, there is no reason that it is toast inside. And if your "old drafty house" is as old and drafty as you think, it may not be in condensing mode all that much. Is there water coming out of the drain on the bottom? If water is coming out, then the insides are probably OK. I'm wondering about the black goo in the water. Where's that coming from? What is the piping for your system? A 2005 Munchie may have the remote controller on a ribbon cable. If it does, look in the installation manual. See how it is running. You can't tell anything without a digital combustion analyzer. I personally would never make the prognostication that the Munchie was on its last legs without doing an analysis on it. 4 Torx bolts on the gas valve and 8 where the burner goes into the HX and the burner comes off and gives you access to the HX. I cleaned one last week that I put in in 2007 and the only thing inside the HX was a dehydrated insect. You don't know until you look inside.
The "Tech" should have told you that they get scuzzy inside when someone plants bushes in front of the exhaust. I think that the "Tech" doesn't like Munchies or he is on commission sales pay and wants to change your boiler.