Joined on September 13, 2010
Last Post on December 11, 2013
@ December 29, 2010 10:57 AM in Beckett burner banging real bad"J",
Don't give up.
Start with the oil line. You must replace it. Start at the tank and go all the way to the burner. Change that POS filter to a new Garber. Get someone to do it. Someone like one of the guys that tried to fix it. There are only two things that make a burner not run right. Fuel/air and Ignition. If it is "banging" as you describe it, it isn't ignition. It must be fuel. And if you have a suction leak, it could easily act like this. I haven't seen something do exactly this but it easily could.
DO NOT USE COMPRESSION FITTINGS!!! Use only FLARE fittings
Call the serv ice person/Oil Company and tell them you want the oil line from the tank to the burner changed.
As a proving point, get 5 gallons of Diesel or Kero oil and connect the burner to this fuel source. It will probably run. There is no reason for that to not run. It is a nice, clean install. It just should have had the oil line changed.
@ December 29, 2010 10:40 AM in heritage fireplaceIf you can not get the proper conversion kit, you may not be able to install this unit. It has a UL listing and it must be "listed" for conversion to LP use. If you do not have the installation instructions listing a conversion kit, it may be illegal to install it.
You or the owner can do whatever you want in installing this unit. Someone could suffer serious health consequences by installing this improperly.
I personally, even if I knew, I would not give you ANY information on converting this unit for fear of assuming some liability for anything that went wrong. This is a very bad idea. Most of the fireplace gas logs are NOT convertable.
Work oin this at your own peril.
Yesterday, on the news, five teenagers died in Miami, FL in a hotel room with a garage under the room. It seems they may have been having trouble with their car so they left it running. Someone went looking for them and they were all found asleep/dead. Don't F with CO. Not EVER.
@ December 29, 2010 8:15 AM in Beckett burner banging real badJust because you have some fancy electronic combustion analyzer doesn't mean you know how to use it or interpret what it is telling you.
My wet bulb Bachrach CO2 test kit will tell me everything I need to know about this problem.
Is it making smoke?
If I open or close the air shutter, does the noise change?
If I find a "sweet" ( better spot), and I open or close the RC, does it change?
What does my draft meter say when I do all this?
What happens to the draft over the fire when I do any of the above?
What is the CO2?
What's the pump pressure when running?
Does it fluctuate when "banging"?
What is the vacuum at the filter?
Is it a spin on filter with a gauge?
What kind of fuel do I get when I put a hose on the bleed screw and run it into a can with the T-T jumped and the nozzle line squirting in the can? Is it clear or cloudy showing air bubbles showing a vacuum leak?
When you changed this boler, did you replace the WHOLE oil line with a "protected" oil line with ALL flare fittings?
If you put the bleed hose in can and let the oil flow into the can with the hose submerged, you shouldn't see any bubbles or microbubbles in the oil. If you do, you have a vacuum leak. In fact, there is a cause for everything. A vacuum leak can cause this. Put a Garber Spin-On at the pump with a gauge. If the needle goes up much in the green, you have a problem. If it goes into the yellow, You have found your problem.
In Massachusetts, we are required to replace ANY fuel line that doesn't meet code on a burner replacement. The only thing to meet code is a "protected" line or a new line in a sleeve like PVC NMT.
@ December 29, 2010 7:52 AM in Home owner cleaned boiler questions. PART IIYes. It turns on the burner. But I can never remember which one starts the burner. It doesn't matter though, if it doesn't start, it isn't wired correctly.
@ December 29, 2010 7:50 AM in Home owner cleaned boiler questions. PART IIYou missed part of that.
The ZC/ZR have another function. The ZC (or ZR) powers the relay from the 8124 (or whichever). When a call comes to the relay, the relay closes and starts the circulator. It also closes a switch that bypasses the low limit operating side of the control, jumps it up to high limit and starts the burner. Which is now running on the high limit. If the operating side drops below the set point, it will stop ALL circulators that are properly wired through ZC/ZR but NOT the burner. If you do not use the properly wired ZC/ZR terminals, the stand alone zones will not start the burner and will run on the operating control temperature. Like, if the high limit is set for 180 and the operating control is set for 160, you only have 160 degree water going into the system and the burner only runs on the differential setting. If you use the circulator relay in the 8124 (or whatever), that is the only zone that will start the burner and run THAT zone on high limit.
If you use multiple circulators and a control with ZC/ZR connections and you then use a control like a Taco ZC-506, and you don't connect the two ZC/ZR terminals, you are not using the control properly. If you want to use that sucky cold start stuff, ignore it all. But if you want a clean and efficient boiler that isn't making concrete or coal in the passageways, use the ZC/ZR and set the "low" at 135 to 140 degrees. It will stop the circulators and stop condensing while the burner catches up..
If you don't understand it, don't expect an electrician to be able to wire it. I have only seen a few who could. I usually need to explain it to them. And then wire it myself.
@ December 29, 2010 7:18 AM in Vitodens 200 new vs. oldScott,
You must know that in the USA, cheap is the better value and expensive is the rip off. You just don't understand.
A V-8 van gets better fuel milage than a V-6. Diesel fuel costs now make gas the better fuel per gallon. It costs BTU's to cart my tools around.
@ December 28, 2010 5:01 PM in Toekick heater install questionIt doesn't matter how you do it. As long sa you use mono-flows. Use the two speed fan switches to control the heat. They are usually oversized for where you are using them. Set them on low speed. They are quieter on low speed. If it gets really cold, or they don't provide enough heat, turn them up to high.
You're making it too complicated. KISS, Keep It Simple but don't be Stupid. pipe them conveniently. Just don't series loop them with baseboard.
@ December 28, 2010 2:14 PM in Bats in my System 2000/Beckett AFG!If you know that Beckett doesn't use them anymore and doesn't recommend them, and need to change a motor with one on, you will remove it. I promise you. If you get it off, you will not put it back on the new motor because it will most likely not be working.
@ December 28, 2010 2:09 PM in Bats in my System 2000/Beckett AFG!Mittens Romney has a bunch of them in front of his palatial home on Lake Winni. I avoid them and him like the plague. Not only is that water cold, it's deep too.
Booze and Ice (sailing), a very bad combination. Mix fog in any form and it is an invitation to disaster. I was sailing on Lake Winni two years ago and sailed into a whiteout wind shift. I had no idea where I was or where I was going. I got out my pocket GPS and went from there. Thank God for GPS.
Never sail alone. There's always thin ice, somewhere.
@ December 28, 2010 2:01 PM in Pressure Relief Valve and Boiler WaterAgain,
Put a #60 or equal #60 Extrol tank. A #30 is too small for a cold start and the height of the air handlers above the boiler.
You don't have enough room for expansion and contraction.
@ December 28, 2010 1:45 PM in Toekick heater install questionLike someone said, one is correct, the other two are not. If the other two were connected with mono-flows, it would be as correct as possible. If you pipe them direct, the temperature drop through the two units will drop the baseboard performance. Not even getting into the issue of pressure drop. One K-42 heater equals 7' #30 Slant/Fin baseboard at 180' water.
I've been on these calls where the K-42'a were piped in series to a second floor bathroom and the next rooms were cold. And no way to fix it unless you ripped down the ceiling.
@ December 27, 2010 4:04 PM in Home owner cleaned boiler questions. PART IIThere is a correct way to wire this boiler to make it run properly. You aren't doing it. The ZC/ZR terminals are there for a reason. It's best to use them.
@ December 27, 2010 3:52 PM in Hot water not flowing DOWN to radiator (anymore)That shows what I said. The grooves must face each other. They used to have a sticker that had arrows on them that showed arrows with flow direction and which way you installed them. And I mentioned the thing about 3/4". It takes flow to make them work. They used to make what they called "Super Tee's" to be used on long runs, long baseboards or down fed.. They used to paint the groove with red paint. As a cost cutting measure, I'm sure that they cut out the paint. For what they charge you for them, they should be polished.
@ December 27, 2010 3:44 PM in Hot water not flowing DOWN to radiator (anymore)Again, you do not have a correct primary/secondary system. Although you have two loops, for it to work properly, you MUST bring the secondary piping into the primary loop on the same plane and closely spaced tees or within 12" or closer to each other. If you do it as you drew, the two circulators will fight each other and the more powerful, the 010 will overcome the 007 slowing down the secondary circuit. That secondary circuit is supposed to circulate within a close space while the primary is going by. That way, you get your mix. You can't (in my opinion) put a tee on one side of a 90' turn and the other on the other side. I said before, if you can throttle the primary circuit way down, so you still get flow through the primary, you should be able to feel flow through the secondary. Changing circulators is not the correction. The tee placement is. In MY opinion. Maybe I am wrong because I can't see the actual piping, just your drawing. In my opinion, if you did it as the drawing, it might not work and it would be the cause of the final radiator not working.
@ December 27, 2010 11:08 AM in Hot water not flowing DOWN to radiator (anymore)Maybe you are misunderstanding the part about "tees facing the same way". They don't. If they are B&G tees, there should be a groove cut in the tee next to the outlet. These are the parts that must face each other. If you use two tees, you MUST have these grooves faceing each other on the drop to the circuit. That way, it doesn't matter which way the flow is. If you use only one tee, you better have the flow direction correct.
And thinking back on "the old days", there used to be a rule on baseboard about how many feet of baseboard you could run on a 1/2" tee. If more than that, you had to go to 3/4". I know once, I had to TS a basement zone and it was a bitch. I learned a lot. It had to do with placement of tees.
Also, if you piped the thng as you show, in MY opinion, if you run the primary and secondary meeting on the run and exiting on the branch could slow down the flow. If you have a balancing valve on the primary side, close it down and see if it helps.
My computer is dying. I'll have to finish this later
@ December 27, 2010 10:55 AM in Reaming Pex-AlI use a tool from Ridgid that does copper and plastic. It is metal and goes from 1/8" ID/1/4" OD to 1 1/2" or so. It is metal and one side does inside and the other side does outside. I use it on PEX to get the ring to slide on easier and inside to get the fiting in easier. It also works well on copper tube. I can't give you the ridgid number now. I also use it on PE pipe to get fittings on. It works very well.
@ December 27, 2010 8:10 AM in Hot water Heat repairs and warranty QBefore you go much farther, if you paid for a pre-purchase home inspection and the inspector didn't pick up all this obvious stuff, I would be hoping the inspector has a lot of liability insurance. There is no way that this inspector should have missed this stuff. I hope that you paid for this inspector and not the RE agent. I hope you had your own lawyer at closing that YOU hired acting for YOU and not the Real Estate agent because THAT lawyer isn't representing YOU, he/she is representing the seller and RE Agent.
I would IMMEDIATELY find the meanest, most obnoxious Lawyer you can find to help you out. It will cost you thousands and thousands of dollars to fix this. I, personally would have made the seller fix the "cracked pipe" and had the water on at signing.
Over the years, I have had quite a few customers sell their houses. Often, the houses have been drained because the closings are in January. The buyers lawyers require that all systems are working properly with all water, heat and electricity working. That's after a prior home inspection.
Used houses are like used cars. There's always something wrong with them.
Real Estate Agents are like used car sales persons. They are always trying to put lipstick on a pig and telling you it is a winning thoroughbred race horse.
Get a lawyer. Try to get out of the deal. It was misrepresented to you. Don't even try to start fixing it until you have some sort of agreement. That house froze up because someone walked away from it. Leaving the problem to someone else. YOU.
I've fixed up frozen houses more times than you can imagine. My bills are in the thousands. I've seen houses with damages in the tens of thousands.
Get a Lawyer.
@ December 27, 2010 7:49 AM in Outdoor reset wind sensor?5 seconds check is OK, it all depends on what you set the wind speed at. If you set it at say 20 MPH, and it is blowing 20, you may just pick up gusts at 20 MPH and over. But it may be blowing a steady 15. Therefore, the thing will be cycling. If you set it to 10, and it was blowing 15 to 25, the unit would be ramped up to high wind.
Air infiltration is the single highest heat loss factor in the heat loss program I use and the wind factor will raise it the most. Air leaking around a badly weatherstripped door will cool off a house faster than you realize. Your house may be warm but someone Else's may not. If you don't appreciate wind induced heat loss, you will look foolish in the eyes of others. Like cold customers. I've been playing with the wind since I was 9 years old. Someone once said to me, "You're that big guy that goes fast in light air". There's usually wind along a shore under the trees. My son is still talking about the first time he went ice sailing and went 37 MPH in 7 knots of wind.
I'll have to start going around the country with NOAA.gov/weather looking at area winds on the ground. All I know is that when I am ice sailing in the winter, it is either not blowing and we stand around the ice waiting all day for wind. Or, it is blowing the rectal orifice out of a cow and I need my cut down storm sail. And some days are just plain perfect. Or, put another way, the chimney smoke is either going straight up or sideways.
@ December 26, 2010 10:35 PM in What is the safety zone in PSI for boiler pressure (and temp if important) for hot water Boiler heating system?The water pressure in a hydronic boiler shouldn't be over 12# to 15#. It should have only enough pressure to raise the water a few feet over the top of the highest heat emitting unit on the system.12# is 28' above the gauge or fill valve. 15' is 34. At 12#, the boiling point at the fill valve/gauge is 246 degrees. At 28', it is 212 degrees. If the height of the water isn't high enough from lack of pressure, the suction pressure on the loop may cause the first water to boil that comes from the boiler on a warm start boiler. If you set the system pressure higher than needed, you decrease the amount of room for system expansion. If you have a one story ranch with a basement, 12# should be all you ever need. A two story Cape, shouldn't need more than 15#. A Cape is usually 34' from the ground to the peak of the roof.
@ December 26, 2010 10:20 PM in Outdoor reset wind sensor?Mark, "clear nights" with no wind aren't the problem. Thereis no additional infiltration. In fact, as far as the conrols are concerned, it is being "fooled" into thinking it is colder than it really is. Thus, overheating the building. Cloudless, windless nights, you're talking about radiational cooling. No wind. If there's wind, you don't get radiational cooling.
To "fix" this on a reset curve, you need a way to make the temperature curve "jump up" for a set period while the wind/infiltration is a factor. One way it seems to me is to put a bypass sensor in a location in a building that is more suseptible to infiltration than other places. Like in an attic somewhere. Allow the infiltrated air to get to it. Normally, it would be open. When it gets cold, it closes. If you understand what I am saying. Those engineer types can't see a forrest through the trees.
@ December 26, 2010 10:07 PM in Outdoor reset wind sensor?The Tekmar sensors are wired with low voltage thermostat wire from the controller to the sensors.
@ December 26, 2010 9:51 PM in Outdoor reset wind sensor?And that my friends is the biggest problem with outdoor reset running the show. While tuning a heating system so that the eagle poops pennies, along comes the laws of unintended consequences. No good dead goes unpunished.
Design a system with 15 MPH wind for infiltration and the wind is gusting to over 50 (like it is where I work at this moment) and you have a cold house. Easily corrected by an increase in water temperature but someone needs to turn up the water temperature. There must be a way.
I have had numerous occasions where a house was cold when it wasn't all that cold out. Like 28 degrees and blowing 35 MPH from the NW. The house wouldn't get over 62. The boiler was cranked up to 220, the system was designed at 180 degrees, and the boiler was cycling. 220' out and 200 coming back. A week later, it is 5 degrees, the house is at 70, the thermostat is at 70 and the boiler is at 180 and cycling. The difference? WIND. Infiltration. From places you/we have no control over. I have a nursing home I do with reset. When it blows over 35 from the NW and it is under 30, the maintenance person raises the system temperature.
Where "I" work, I meet these severe environmental conditions every day. If I did all these razor thin settings, I'd be paying out of my own pocket for service calls over cold buildings. Or, YOU do it and they call me. I know from experience what the problem is. You think I'm going to act stupid? I'm going to crank the temperature.
But all this "stuff" on a hydronic system. See how many jobs you loose to scorched air. Where they wrap the metal duct with 1/4" R-13 bubble wrap. And have one big return at the bottom of the stairs to do a two story house and a bypass to let the return balance out the system.
I don't believe in over engineering things. Keep it simple but don't be stupid. I heard that somewhere.
I could win that $1000.00 in the ugly system contest if I could send in some of the scorched air things I have seen. A true "OH MY GOD!!!" moment.