Heating Help

Burnham Boiler

@ December 11, 2010 10:09 AM in Burnham oil boiler

Boy, could I have fun with this. Nice install. Too bad the used car sales person was a dubber and didn't know what they were looking at or talking about.
See those two balancing cocks on the return? Check those out and figure out how it probably splits the house into two circuits. It will either be one side of the house and the other. Probably both floors. Not to worry. If you put a circulator in each side allowing you to have two zones and all you added was two circulators. You can now control half your house at a time.
Because it is a hot water system, you can lower your boiler water temperature and heat the house with lower water temperatures.
Then, there is the tankless. You can add a storage tank and circulate the water through the tankless. 
The boiler change was a nice job. Adding a storage tank will really save you some money.

Over heating?

@ December 11, 2010 9:52 AM in runaway CI Dunkirk

I'm not sure what the problem is but, it seems that the 4006 is a high temperature manual cutout and it is tripping out on high limit. It was set to 245'.  The 8148 is the boiler temperature controller and is/was set at 205'. You reset the 4006 to 205' and the 8148 to 205'?
If the 8148 is failing and running high, the 4006 will probably keep tripping out on high limit. What does the tridicator temperature gauge read for temperature? I don't trust them but I have see quite a few 8000 series controllers go bad and they always start overheating. They won't usually both be bad. Turn the 4006 up and down and note where the click is. If that is correct, listen to where the click is on the 8148. If they differ, one is bad. Most likely, the culprit is the 8148.
Try a wider differential on the 4006. It can be 230'. If the problem goes away, replace the 8148 because it will not get better, only worse. And thermal lag/over temp. can easily be 25 degrees. That would cause the 4006 at 205 to trip out. It should be at least 230 IMO. For whatever that is worth.

Splitting Zones:

@ December 11, 2010 9:31 AM in splitting a zone; hot water baseboard heat

It's a lot easier to move the thermostat than to split up the zone. Move the theromstat to the rooms/areas that is cold and the problem will be solved. If you split up the zone, you will need another thermostat.
Honeywell not makes a wireless thermostat and once installed, you can move it anywhere.

Copper to PEX

@ December 10, 2010 9:28 PM in Changing 5 ft of 1 Inch copper to 3/4 inch pex

You can do whatever you want. No one is watching.
However, pipes increase as do their squares.
That neans that it takes 4, 1" pipes to equal a 2" pipe. And it takes 4, 3/4" pipes to equal a 1 1/2" pipe.
And I think that 3/4" PEX has a smaller inside diameter than 3/4" copper tube.

Gold Lockouts:

@ December 10, 2010 12:20 AM in weil mclain gv gold lockout problems

Replace the motor and fan assembly. If it doesn't turn up to speed, the draft prover switch won't close.

LWCO & MA code:

@ December 8, 2010 11:15 PM in LWCO necessary for residential oil-fired steam boiler in MA?

There's also the item about the oil line.
It MUST be protected. New requirement. And oil companies are not supposed to deliver to any account that doesn't have protected oil lines. NO EXCEPTIONS.

AFG's

@ December 8, 2010 11:08 PM in Intermittent Rough Running Beckett AFG

If the boiler had the burner package that Beclett and Burnham suggest, the problems would go away. It sounds like delayed ignition on start up.
You can pull this off with a Carlin but not so easy with a Beckett with all their head and tube configurations. What happens when home owners who aren't qualified, start trying to re-engineer products they have no understanding of.

Heating floors:

@ December 8, 2010 10:57 PM in Heating first floor during the day efficiently

My experience is this.
If the vaulted ceilings go up teo floors, I don't put the second floor heat emitters on the second floor zone. I connect them to the first floor. And I always make a vaulted ceiling/two story room, a zone of its own. Then, the second floor thermostat is only controlling the second floor rooms and not a room that is controlled bt the first floor.  What also helps these rooms are paddle fans to push the air back down and keep the heat from "stacking" at the top of the ceilings. It's hard to balance rooms like this with smaller rooms.
Hope this helps.

Vibrating Munchkins:

@ December 8, 2010 10:47 PM in Vibrating Munchkin boiler???

Dan et al,
Check the swirl plate. It is a white plastic thing that has vanes on one side and a venturi arrangement in the middle.
What I think happens is that when the unit goes on low fire, a reverse flow of exhaust will push the flame back through the end cone and start burning outside the cone. It then gets in the space where it is supposed to be mixing air with the gas. It's "backfiring" like a tired water heater burner or a stove top burner. The problem is attributed to a lot of things but if you take the cover off, it seems to make it better. Take that thing apart and look carefully at the plastic swirl plate. If you see visable signs of heat damage and it goes through one set of vanes, through the venturi opening and all over the face of the plate, "I" personally think it is backfiring. The plate can be found with all the vanes completely deteriorated . Once it gets bad, you need to replace it.
I can put you in contact with a guy that really knows these Muncies. If you want to, E-mail me at chris1243@aol.com . The E-mail address here for me isn't working right now. It is a yahoo account and my account was hacked and my computer was pretty much wrecked. I had to re-formay my HD and switch to Windows 7. Some how, somewhere, someone keeps changing my Yahoo password and personal information.
Is this application LP? Or Nat. Gas?
Chris Gordon

Disabled Vent Dampers:

@ November 30, 2010 4:27 PM in Vent damper disabled?

Tim,
I don't know the answer to this and I don't do Nat. Gas.
He said that he has an "intermitent pilot". Is it still OK?
Must the burner be wired so that the burner can not come on if the damper is in the closed position? Should the unit be checked for proper operation? IE: that the damper opens before the burner comes on, and that it closes after the burner stops and whatever?. Perhaps there was a problem with the operation of the damper assembly and someone moved it into the full open at all times mode rather than fixing it or removing it.
I'm just asking.

Temps:

@ November 30, 2010 7:37 AM in Most Efficient Radiator Heat-- Constant Temp or Turn Down?

I don't know what "current" studies show but in practice with me, there is no greater savings than set back thermostats. Ones that change at pre-set temperatures. I find that you will become used to lower temperetures and you don't forget to turn them down. I have used them for myself and my customers. I have accurate records of fuel savings for years. I have never have a customer complain and say that they didn't save them money.
My FLA condo has one. The AC runs off it. I never need to worry about it being off when I get home.
Outdoor reset will seriously conflict with them though.
Do what you want. They have worked very well for me over years of use.

8184G

@ November 29, 2010 10:08 PM in honeywell 8184G

Del,
I like my Bachrach too. I don't do enough tests per year to justify aan electronic but I'm afraid I will be forced into it because of all the gas I am starting to need to do.

Vibrating MunchkinBoiler/Swirl Plate:

@ November 29, 2010 10:01 PM in Vibrating Munchkin boiler???

Dan,
I asked you but you didn't reply to my questions.
You mentined that this Munchkin was a 2005 vintage? Did you get it used? Why did someone get rid of it?
Combustion issues have been mentioned. You mention that you can smell gas in the exhaust. Is it on LP or Nat Gas?
I believe you said that it doesn't do this in the begining but starts going it, then "burps". Have you tried taking off the cover and letting it run without the cover on to see if it runs any better when doing so?
Is the inside of the boiler area clean and not covered with oxidation?
When it is doing this "vibrating", look VERY carefully at the fan area of the burner and look to see if there is anything unusual there. Like in the area where the air gets mixed into the fan area and air is sucked in.
Some of those Munchkins had problems with the swirl plate and something caused deterioration of the plate with serious deterioration. You can not see it without taking out the plate. It would be wise to get a new one because they changed plastics to a higher temperature plastic on the latest ones. You may have one that has wear. If you got the unit used, it may have had the problem and no one knew it. Or, thought something was wrong and didn't know what it was. I and friends have changed a number of them. Your piping problem may just be masking what the real problem is. A combustion issue. With the computer program in a laptop, you can set the thing up and stop the problem. Which is a bad air/fuel mixture at the start,
Check out the swirl plate. Try this before you start ripping that nice piping job apart.
CMG

Munchkin:

@ November 29, 2010 8:01 PM in Vibrating Munchkin boiler???

Dan, is this a brand new boiler or has it been running for some time and this problem just came up.
Somewhere I thought you said it was a 2005 vintage Munchkin but they didn't have black covers.
What year was this boiler made?

Purple:

@ November 29, 2010 7:47 PM in Vibrating Munchkin boiler???

Charlie, show me in the MA code where it says the primer must be purple?
They can not fail you if you use what I use, Rectorseal clear. I use clear cement. "Big Bill" and "Pistol Pete". I've used Genova purple crud and it just stuck to the pipe and wouldn't wipe off. You can "see" where the sheen is broken and the manufacturers info line is obviously wiped off. When you see the line, covered with purple dye going into the socket, how can you say you properly cleaned the pipe. If the purple stuff worked as well as the clear, I would use it in an instant. It doesn't work well.
Just MY experience. And I've been cleaning it like this since 1970.

exposed lengths:

@ November 29, 2010 7:32 PM in Max exposed vent lengths

Sorry, I misunderstood the question.
What you are asking, I've wondered myself when you try to get above projected show levels. And what to do when the vent termination is on a lee side and you know that you could easily get a 6' drift over the intake/exhaust. In Massachusetts, we are required to post a plastic sign 6' up above the vent termination so anyone can locate the termination.

Hot water tank:

@ November 29, 2010 7:21 PM in Hot water tank

Are you in Massachusetts? If so, it should be replaced by a Massachusetts licensed plumber who knows the code requirements. If you are going to change it yourself, it doesn't matter what you do. To meet MA code, it must be connected at the water heater with the same size pipe as the water heater, 3/4" pipe/copper tube. It must have a 1/2" vacuum relief valve on the cold water inlet within 6" of the top of the tank. There must be a 3/4" shut off valve located at the top of the tank. It is allowable with a replacement to reduce to the 1/2" which feeds the water heater coming and going. The temperature/pressure relief valve must be piped with a non-ferrous line to within 10" of the floor. If it is electric, it must have a separate green bonding wire that connects to the neutral system of the electrical system. Bonding through BX or metal conduit doesn't cover it anymore. It needs to have the temperature set to no higher than 125 degrees for an inspection. If it is gas, it needs a gas permit.
If you aren't a licensed plumber/gas fitter/electrician and are going to do this on your own any, do whatever you are capable of doing.  

Soot Problems:

@ November 29, 2010 1:40 PM in Burner Soot Problem

Before I went that far, I'd pull the burner nozzle assembly out and hold it up vertically so the nozzle is up. Does the oil run out the end, freely? If not, the nozzle strainer is clogged. Dropping the pump pressure between the strainer and the nozzle causing poor atomization. And if so, change the filter element on the fuel filter.  Change the nozzle to the correct one. If it doesn't look too bad and it is a canister type, change the whole filter to a spin on type. If you want to do it right, install two spin on filters.
Unless you have a Beckett burner, there is no "Z" dimension to check. And the only "Z" dimensions I have ever seen worth checking were the ones that the end cone was burning off. If you get carbon on the retention ring. the boiler is probably sooted up. Clean the boiler. 

Vent length separation:

@ November 29, 2010 1:15 PM in Max exposed vent lengths

It is to keep the exhaust fom possibly being sucked back into the intake.

Fondly known as "regurgitation". And it happens.

Hissing Copper:

@ November 29, 2010 9:04 AM in Getting Hissed

Nick,
A stupid question. What is the problem with copper tube on the supply of a steam boiler? Personally would always use steel screw pipe but I'm curious about the copper.
Solder?  50/50 solder melts at 360 degrees. Silverbrite lead free is 450+. And it has less leaks. Like I said, I would have used screw pipe, no matter what. Why else would I own a Powerdrive?

Circ. Issues:

@ November 29, 2010 8:40 AM in circulator issues

It sounds like it worked properly at one time for a long time. To my way of thinking, if it worked and stopped working as you think it should, what changed? You replaced the control and still have the same problem. You jumped out the circulator and it ran. The only thing left as far as I would think, providing you didn't inadvertantly mis-connect the wiring on the new control, is the low voltage part of the zone valves. Maybe a dirty contact is causing a bad connection when the valve is open? I'd TS the low voltage wiring.
If you jumper out the end switch part of the zone valve, does it start?
Did you check all those wire nut connections? A real source of frustration for me, sometimes.
Whatever it is, it's stupid.

Transformers going bad:

@ November 29, 2010 8:24 AM in Why did transformer on L8148E go bad?

Can you imagine? My POS 2000 Ford van, that I bought new, with 97,000 miles just needed the exhaust system replaced? How long should it last?
And at 90,000 miles I had to replace the plugs and ignition wire caps?
25 years on a transformer? How long do you think it should last? How efficient is a 25 year old boiler, that wasn't all that efficient when it was new?
Replace the control. Nothing lasts forever. I'd also add the other transformer. Maybe the ZV's are drawing extra load after 25 years and you could use a bigger transformer. Just because it says it will take 2 zone valves, means that it will comfortably. With Taco 57* zone valves, a 40 VA transformer will operate 3 valves. You can connect 4 valves but it will only open any 3 at a time.