Heating Help

Boiler Size:

@ April 10, 2013 5:17 AM in Sizing replacement boiler

Where does the potable domestic hot water come from?

Tone This:

@ April 9, 2013 10:59 PM in Vaughn Water Heater

If it is a Vaughan standard dual element electric water heater, looking for a "Tone" isn't how I learned to do it. It takes a multi-meter and a "Amp Clamp" to check for current draw and a voltage meter. A "Wiggy" will do.
Just because you have voltage doesn't mean you have amperage.

"Goofy Connections"

@ April 9, 2013 7:01 PM in Re-Using Old HW Radiators on Single Pipe Steam

,,,"The shorty radiators have a goofy connection with two pipes going into one end that I haven't seen before, and I have no idea whether steam is a good idea (or possible) on a 15' long wall radiator.  I don't ",,,,

Those "Goofy Connections", if they are all there, don't throw them away. Someone will want them. They are extremely rare if complete.

Tankless/storage tanks:

@ April 8, 2013 9:47 PM in boiler with tankless hot water with additional water take

If what you have is what I install and have in all my houses, the main burner control should be a triple acting controller with a "High Limit" and a "Operating Control". The "Operating Control" must be set at a minimum of 20 degrees below the high limit. If the operating control is set at 140 degrees, you will not get condensing in the flue passages.
The water heater storage tank is usually set at 125 degrees. The lower thermostat on the tank controls the circulator. It should nor directly control the burner.
I find that some who come here for information , have an obsession about running burners. Burners run to make heat. That's what they are supposed to do. Every time they hear the burner running, they have a panic attack like someone has their hand in their bank account.

Post pictures of this equipment. I'm sure that it doesn't run any where as much as you describe and if it does, there's something wrong with the adjustments or the installations.

Check Valves/Vacuum:

@ April 8, 2013 9:32 PM in warminMaine

Installing a check valve just promotes higher suction pressures  (vacuum) which is never a good thing.
A fuel pump, connected to a Tigerloop only develops enough vacuum to pull the product out of the Tigerloop reservoir. The circulation of the pump through the Tigerloop develops the suction needed to overcome the resistance. The friction of pumping the same oil through the tigerloop plus what it needs to burn causes the rise in temperature.
Check valves on well water pumps add a lot of resistance to the flow that the pump must overcome. Same with oil fuel pumps. Tigerloops add very little resistance to the pump. Put a GarBer spin on with a restriction gauge and check the suction pressure. Add a Tigerloop. There will be very little if any increase in suction pressure. Add a check valve and the suction will go up noticeably.

My very point:

@ April 7, 2013 9:22 PM in Colorado Monoxide Case Moves Toward Trial

My very point to my comment. If the manufacturer "suggests" that you use PVC venting for their appliance, first, did they actually get a legal listing if a part of the system isn't approved for use by the manufacturer of the part?
I say that if you install a listed system, that has been tested and has a UL listing, and you follow the letter of the listing, you are covered and if there is a failure, you are in the clear as to responsibility. But if the manufacturer doesn't have a complete tested listing, with all the ducks in a row, you could be getting the short straw if there is a problem.
I've done plenty of PVC venting. I never had a problem. I didn't know that there was an issue until I went to a Veissmann school and it was discussed.

PVC Venting:

@ April 7, 2013 8:53 PM in Colorado Monoxide Case Moves Toward Trial

Steamer is right, you are wrong.
Charlotte and other PVC pipe and fittings have never listed their Sch, 40 1100 pipe for venting gas appliances. It isn't even listed for liquids over 140 degrees. It is marked on the pipe "DWV", Drain, Waste and Vent. Just because a boiler manufacturer gets their product listed with a product that isn't listed, doesn't make the unlisted product listed.
I once put plumbing and heating in a barn with living space. The AHJ went nuts on the contractor because he didn't follow the air space separation between the two spaces. It called for double 5/8" sheet rock on both surfaces with a 1" minimum air space between the two. to get the "Listed" 2 hour fire rating. 24" of solid 5/8 sheetrock would not give a 2 hour listed rating because no one ever paid for a 24" sheetrock wall to give ANY fire rating for the wall system being addressed. For $100,000 or more, you might be able to get it listed in a few years, The AHJ wasn't having any part of the problem.

Overhead Oil:

@ April 7, 2013 8:31 PM in warminMaine

If the oil line runs overhead, it needs a TigerJoop. Riello's LOVE Tigerloops,
You get the two pipe kit for the Riello, install the bypass, and the two factory supplied fittings go right through the slot in the cover. You connect the flex lines to the adapters and to the Tigerloop. Connect the inlet to the oil line, cycle it a few times and your problems are over.
Don't even go to that place that Tigerloops are JUNK. They are mandatory in some European countries where two pipe oil systems are illegal. No oil returns from the burner to the tank are allowed.

Setting up to Munch:

@ April 7, 2013 11:51 AM in Vibrating Munchkin boiler???

It is more important to set up Munchies up with a digital exhaust combustion analyzer. If it is a newer Munchie with the remote controller, the instruction manual list the CO and CO2 valves, and fan speeds for high and low fire. You need the gas pressure to get to these numbers. The controller will show you the fan speeds. The fan speed is part of setting the gas flow rate. It is all in the manual. If you haven't carefully read it, you need to read it until you understand it. You have to look at the chart to see what model Munchie you have and use those parameters. I can be as fussy as I want to be but if the fan speed  is very close, and the numbers are slightly out of range but close, it can be a bigger PITA to futz with the gas valve. "No good deed will be unpunished". But if you change swirl plates, you should go over the whole thing.
If you have a M80 Munchie and it is vented with 3" PVC, I find that it will have a problem venting and running on low fire and I have put 3"X2" PVC bushings in the exhaust to get more back pressure on low fire. They improved. I've extended concentric vents with a no-hub coupling and PVC pipe. If the vent faces the East or a prevailing winter wind direction, it may need something to stop direct wind from blowing back as hard. Take the burner off and look into the chamber. The last one was clean as a whistle with only a stray dehydrated insect on the bottom. I've seen others that were acting up that needed to cleaned out with CLR or Rid Lime.

Bad swirl plates:

@ April 6, 2013 11:44 PM in Vibrating Munchkin boiler???

I've been told by those in the know that I am wrong in my opinion but they can't give me contrary proof when I ask to be proven wrong.
I believe that the Dungs Valve has an ability to allow backfiring and the "swirl" that mixes air and gas through the venturi, can backfire and allow flame to swirl with the air and gas and burn through the plate. It seems to happen more with concentric vents but it can happen to any of them. Especially if there is something to block the free flow of exhaust. It is also more apt to start during low modulation firing.

If you had the plate in hand, you would see (like in the photo) that there are a group of vanes that are just missing. They have had the plastic so heated that they just broke off. If you flip the plate over, you can see there the flame or hot exhaust has been circulating through the venturi.
Swirl plate degradation is often blamed on "regurgitation" of exhaust gasses being sucked back into the intake.
If you make a careful observation of that burned swirl plate, you might come to the same conclusion that I have. No one has been able to convince me to the contrary or give me a provable hypothesis to the contrary. I'm still waiting.
If you can put a laptop on the brain and retrieve the codes, you will see a lot of retries. A symptom of flame failure. It will start slowly and then speed up over time.

Band Aids:

@ April 6, 2013 10:06 AM in Condensation/feed tank problem

I'm not a steam expert but from what you describe, it worked at one time and now it doesn't. The system has been abused for years. You need to start from the basics. You need to find all the buried traps and vents and replace them as if it was a new system.
Others here will tell you what you need to do but adding a F&T trap sounds like a band aid on the infection. 5# pressure sounds like an attempt by a dubber who thinks that higher system pressure is the Holy Grail of troubleshooting steam boilers.
If the owner doesn't want to fix it properly, take a walk.
There's never enough time to do it right. But always time for someone else to do it over.
I've not seen this, but will that 5# pressure make the system create a multitude of scuzzola and foul the system? If the controls are failing, maybe that's part of the problem.

I guess:

@ April 6, 2013 7:47 AM in brazed fittings ok for oil line?

I guess that means it is legal to do. If the Commonwealth allows it in their buildings, it MUST be legal.
I noticed that the copper tune that goes into brass LP tank adapters id silver brazed. It must be OK. I used to buy nice sink adapters from Wolverine Brass. They had brass nose pieces. The brass nose pieces were silver brased to the copper.

Kroil:

@ April 6, 2013 7:36 AM in Taco Vortex

On another note, buy some Kroil () and spray it into the rusted parts where the water leaked. Let it sit overnight. It will break up the rust and make it easy to get apart.
Don't bother with the PB Blaster, WD-40's and any of the other rust loosening products. I've used them all. There is absolutely no equal to Kroil, I always carry two cans in the truck. In case one runs out or I can't find one. I spray it on faucets under sinks that the installer didn't grease up and it is all green and nasty. After a shot of Kroil, it come apart easily. I've had underground stops that I couldn't turn with a 2' wrench. I pour a cup of Kroil down the curb box and come back the next day and it turns easily. Where I work, the local water company has a 5 gallon can of the stuff.
You can't buy it in a "normal" retail store. Internet order or in specialty stores like some marine stores.
Since using Kroil, I have never had to cut off a circulator flange bolt because I couldn't get it off.
Try it, You'll like it.
http://www.kanolabs.com/google/

Where's The Air?

@ April 6, 2013 7:25 AM in Taco Vortex

And again I ask, where is all this air coming from? Every system I see with an old fashioned air scoop with a "400 float vent with the cap tight never seems to have any air. My home that was built 12 years ago has a scoop and has never had any air issues or the sound of rushing air or blocked air bound zones.
Every time I run into the competitor brand and it is leaking out of the vent, I screw a 1/2" coupling on to the fitting and add nipples and fittings to get a #400 vent on it and screw the cap down tight. No problem.
The last time I had a leaker that had "issues", I had to remove it, put it on the ground and use two 3' pipe wrenches to get it apart. There was no way for this aging body to stand on a 6' ladder with two 3' pipe wrenches, and fit them between the existing piping. The repair/replacement parts wouldn't fit. I took the new one apart, Teflon tape and pasted the threads and lubed the O-RIng with silicone grease. It still took the 3' wrenches to get it together and take it apart before I installed it. I put the add on vent arrangement on it and screwed the cap down because I drain the system for the winter with compressed air.
Another expensive trouble prone solution for a created problem that didn't exist before.
It only fixes under sized, over run/length of piping that is severely over pumped to get flow rates up in undersized runs. Something that never happened with copper or screw pipe.
Another confirmation affirming my choice not to use those expensive band-aids. If and when I find a situation where I need one, I will use one. Until then, I'm still waiting.

Electric Heat:

@ April 4, 2013 7:46 PM in Heating a 5 x 10m room to constant 48 degrees

That's sort of what I said in the beginning.
However, is there heat loss or gain into the room? If the room is on the middle of a structure, there may not be any heat loss but the test equipment may give off heat and the room may go over the 95C temperature. Therefore, you may need a heat pump/mini split to control the temperature.
Where I work, the US navy built a Naval Facility that was so secret that even today, no one will say what it did. It wasn't what they did but how they did it. It closed down in 1976. The functions were taken up by satellites and other such things. There was a building that they did their feeds in. There was so much electrical equipment that they needed two 25 ton AC units just to keep the place usable, In the summer, was unbearable. Heat gain by electrical equipment is something to consider.

Doing:

@ April 3, 2013 1:20 AM in brazed fittings ok for oil line?

Depending on the situation, one does what one has to do.
It is legal to make high temperature braze connections on oil lines, and I always have a piece of silver braze rod in the truck. If I needed to make a connection and I didn't have the proper flare fitting, I would braze it in an instant. HVAC guys do it all the time.

Brazing:

@ April 2, 2013 7:15 PM in brazed fittings ok for oil line?

Which is what I am writing about. I'm not talking about soft solder like 95/5 that melts at over 900 degrees.
With silver brazing, there's no wiping the grapes off the pipe or fitting. And if you try to use a cloth rag, the rag catches on fire.

Painting Oil.

@ April 2, 2013 5:21 AM in brazed fittings ok for oil line?

No, blue is the universal color for potable water.
If you are going to paint it, paint it red or a dark orange.

Suit your self:

@ April 2, 2013 5:19 AM in Pump for Washing machine

Suit your self.
You can blow a hole in the floor and install a 18" X 30: sump basin and pump. There are a large number of ways to do this. Cost is the only limiting factor.
I would start with lengthening the drain hose and let the pump go up. I have never seen a washer that wouldn't do it in a "normal" cellar. The cheapest ones work the best. If it is a front loader, raise it up so you don't need to bend over to get the clothes out of it.
Or get out the demo hammer.
I'm sort of a low technology kind of guy. If the washer pump will do the job, that's what I do. I'm going to turn on the water to a house that has one. It has been in for many years. It was there when I took it on and pumps fine. When I drain it for the winter, I use 6 cups of anti-freeze instead of 4.

Check this out:

@ April 1, 2013 6:34 PM in brazed fittings ok for oil line?

Check this out:

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?5071-Brazing-oil-lines

Silver Braze:

@ April 1, 2013 6:09 PM in brazed fittings ok for oil line?

In 1967, when I took my Massachusetts Journeyman's exam, the Practical part of the exam was to silver braze a wrought copper fitting to a piece of copper tube. My years of metal shop in the Los Angeles City School System and all the projects I did that included brass brazing, made it a piece of cake.
Sounds like you have a really clean and professional job.

Brazed Oil Lines:

@ March 31, 2013 8:32 PM in brazed fittings ok for oil line?

If I had an oil line to run, and I didn't want a mechanical joint (flare fitting) in the line, and I had a piece of Silphos with me, I'd probably silver braze it rather than all those flare fittings. The HVAC guys do it all the time with their refrigeration lines.