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Joined on September 15, 2010

Last Post on July 29, 2014

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Short cycling

@ March 18, 2014 6:05 PM in Steam Boiler Short Cycling from Pressure

Has the system venting been examined to see if it's adequate. If the venting rate is too low that can cause cycling as well as an oversized boiler. The boiler can be downfired but there are limits to how low you can go.

Post some pictures so we can see if there are issues with the boiler and near boiler piping that might be causing problems.


Main vents?

@ March 17, 2014 3:57 PM in Steam vents ... how can you check if they're good

These are the last vents on the system? Do you have a large enough main vent on the steam main in the basement? If it's not working or too small it will take a LONG time for a radiator vent to let all the air out. The Heatimer Varivalves can cause problems i would avoid them if possible.

Maid O Mist makes a 5L that comes with an assortment of orifices so you can select the one you want.


It depends

@ March 17, 2014 7:05 AM in pressuretrol psi gauge relationship?

If your boiler is well matched to the radiator load then the system can run happily on ounces of pressure. If the boiler is larger than the radiator load it will build pressure and that is why they put a pressuretrol on the system.

Think about adding an auxiliary 0-3PGI gauge so you can see where the system is operating at, those 0-30 gauges are useless at the low end of the scale.


I agree

@ March 16, 2014 10:25 AM in Easy way to clean pigtail / siphon

The air in that sealed pigtail essentially blocks the steam from getting very far. the bottom of the loop in my pigtail gets very hot but the top of the pigtail never gets more than warm and I'm sure that's just because of the thermal conduction of the brass pigtail.


Bad valve seat

@ March 15, 2014 7:00 PM in pressuretrol psi gauge relationship?

Pressure relief valves are known to leak a bit after being actuated so that may have to be replaced.


Bad gauge

@ March 15, 2014 5:50 PM in pressuretrol psi gauge relationship?

Pressure gauges fail more often than pressuretrols do, replace it.


Glad it's working for you

@ March 15, 2014 2:34 PM in Had a leak and Hercules Boiler Liquid worked

I would use this time to plan out exactly what your going to replace it with. Your a lot better off planning a warm weather replacement then having to do it some night when the bottom is falling out of the thermometer.

Find a good installer and have him install the right sized boiler per the manufacturers piping diagram (at a minimum).


Why I didn't but really did

@ March 13, 2014 10:11 PM in converting oil burner to gas

A couple of years ago my oil tank started to weep and i decided it was time to switch to gas given the difference in fuel costs. My boiler at that time was a Burnham v75 and although it was running fine i knew it was not a long lived boiler.

I decided to replace the boiler but I wanted a wet based boiler so i went with the Smith G8 and a carlin ez-gas power burner and a chimney liner. I decided against an atmospheric boiler because i believe a wet based boiler is more efficient and more reliable. The one very good thing about an atmospheric boiler is that it takes very little power to run so backup power in the event of a power failure is easier. I have only had a power outage once in the last 30 years that lasted a day or more in frigid temperature so I decided to go wtth the odds.

The V8 is also not known for being long lived, I would make sure that boiler was gone over with a fine toothed comb to be sure it's in good shape before converting it. If it is in good shape I would convert it as long as I had faith and confidence in the installer. A good installer is worth a lot more that whatever warranty is left in that boiler.


While checking the pigtail (syphon tube)

@ March 12, 2014 7:02 PM in Help! Left water on filling boiler and now...

With the power to the boiler off at the circuit breaker box unwire and twist off the pressuretrol. After checking the pigtail to be sure it's clear, turn the pressuretrol over and make sure the little hole at the base of the brass fitting on the pressuretrol is clear.


If they worked before the new boiler

@ March 11, 2014 9:01 AM in Question about two pipe system

and stopped working after it's install I can pretty much gaurantee that something about the installation was not done properly. Steam systems are very fussy about horizontal pipe pitch and the near boiler piping. The old boiler may have had a larger steam chest and been a little more forgiving. Post pictures of the boiler and the piping around it so we can see what was done. Stand back a bit so we can see how the piping is configured.

Something changed during the installation and we have to figure out what it was that changed.


Change and add vents first

@ March 7, 2014 9:53 AM in wet steam /vent spitting

Before I started to mess with the boiler piping I would replace that vent with 2ea Gorton #1's and i would find a way to add the same to the other main. That location is fine for the existing vent, you can add vents at the end of the other main or at any convenient spot on the return.

The vents HD sell are usually not very good, your better of with a Gorton or Maid O Mist vent. You can get a Maid O  Mist 5L that comes with 5 different orifices at Amazon for cheap money, that will let you easily change the venting rate.

Have you pulled the pressuretrol off the pigtail and checked to be sure it is clear? If the boiler were running at high pressure that makes everything worse. Ifg you do mess with the boiler piping you would be best off replacing the copper with threaded steel pipe and using both risers into a drop header would be as good as it gets for dry steam.

I would fix the venting and make sure the boiler is operating at low pressure before messing with the boiler piping. You might want to add alow pressure (0-3 PSI) gage to the pigtail along with the pressuretrol so you know what the pressure is; the 0-30 PSI gauge is not very usefull at the low end. Also if your seeing a lot of bounce in the gauge glass a good skimming is in order.



@ March 6, 2014 4:56 PM in wet steam /vent spitting

I'm having trouble visualizing your piping, can you post pictures of where the boiler connects to the mains and the current vent location?

We have had a very cold winter and I suspect frost is pretty deep and that may have moved the ground enough to take an iffy slope and make it bad.


Right on

@ March 6, 2014 7:57 AM in Skyrocketing Electric Rates

A couple of years back I switched suppliers to save 5 cents a kwh (9.9 vs 14.9 cents), everything was fine till the contract period expired and they raise the rates from 9.9 to 22.9 cents in August when the AC was working overtime. It took 60 more days to switch back because of the way the utility commission set things up.

These utilities are all monopolies and they can do just about anything they want because they keep the politicians coffers full. A neighboring town has a municipal light company and their rates are always 20% less that national grids and you never hear about extended power outages after storms; the people who work for that municipal light company know their jobs depend on keeping the taxpayers happy and it works out well for all involved. I suspect the cat they are not paying anybody millions of dollars to run the utility goes a long towards keeping the rates low.


Add a vent?

@ March 6, 2014 7:32 AM in wet steam /vent spitting

What kind of vent are you using on the spitting radiator? A fast vent can make spitting easier. Make sure the piping that feeds that radiator has good pitch back to the boiler and make sure the radiator itself is pitched back towards the supply pipe. Is the piping insulated?

If the near boiler piping is not correct in size and configuration you could well be making wet steam. The one additional radiator should not change things as long as it's not a very large one. Adding a vent onto the main that feeds that radiator can only help matters. If there isn't an easy spot to add one you could drill and tap the pipe near it's end for a 1/8" NPT  radiator vent (Gorton D?) to add a vent.



@ March 5, 2014 9:42 PM in Steam boiler banging, hissing and water noise

The diagram I have attached is the proper way to pipe a steam boiler, the diagram shows both risers being used which is desireable but small boilers can get by with a single riser. The way your boiler is piped almost guarantees you are producing wet steam, if the boiler header was like the diagram you would be getting nice dry steam. That said if it was not banging before that piping is not making it bang now.

Your mains contain over 0.4 cu ft of air each and the present main vent is good for about 0.1 cfm. Each of those vents should be replaced with 2ea Gorton #1 vents per main at a minimum, a single #2 would be better but will cost a bit more than 2ea #1s. You can buy Gorton main vents at Note that the #2 vents have a 1/2" male thread and are quite large, make sure you have enough clearance  to mount them.

Those Home Depot vents are not good, they should be replaced with Gorton, Hoffmans, Ventrites or Maid o mist radiator vents. It's best to vent the mains fast and the radiators slowly, the Home Depot vents seem to always vent at the same rate and that is too fast.

Is the boiler shutting down on low water during operation or only when you drain it? If it's shutting down during normal operation your return pipes might be partially clogged.

Let us know how you make out with checking the level of the pipes and that the pigtail is not blocked.


Get a level

@ March 5, 2014 8:44 AM in Steam boiler banging, hissing and water noise

The boiler piping isn't correct but that has not changed so lets concentrate on what might have changed. Steam hammer is caused when steam comes across sitting water, that causes the steam to collapse and that is the bang you hear.

Put a level on all the radiators and make sure there is a little pitch so water can drain back out of the radiators.You can use quarters to raise the radiator feet up a little if you have to, if you need more lift cut some strips of plywood and use that if you need 3/8" or more. Next use the level on all the horizontal pipes in the basement and make sure they all have pitch so water can find it's way back to the boiler, houses settle and something may not be pitched right.

A Ventrite 75 is pretty low capacity, how long are the steam mains and about what sized pipe? It's best to vent the mains very fast and the radiators slowly, you probably need a faster main vent. What kind or air vents are on the radiators?

That relief valve should be replaced because a leaking valve can slowly build up crud that prevents it's operation if there was a pressure problem, Also the pigtail under the pressuretrol should be checked to be sure it's not blocked (this should be done every year). The 0-30 PSI gauge is pretty useless down at the 1-2 pound rage where your boiler should be running, think about adding an auxilliary 0-3 PSI gauge so you can see exactly what pressure the boiler is running at.

The sight glass is leaking at the bottom of the gauge, get some rubber gauge glass washers and then clean or replace that gauge glass. I would also flush out the boiler to get rid of all the rusty water. This should be done when the boiler is cold or just warm with the power off. After the flush while your filling the boiler back up, turn the power back on and make sure the boiler does not start till the water level actuates the float in the low water cutoff. That low water cutoff should be disassembled and cleaned every year or two. After all this run the boiler up to steam to drive off any oxygen in the fresh boiler water.


Probably worth it

@ March 4, 2014 11:41 AM in Carlin Gas Conversion or new oil tank?

The fuel savings alone probably make it worth it, My smith with the carlin EZ-Gas saved me about 45% last year over my Burnham V75 on oil. I changed mine out because of a tank that was beginning to weep and that Burnhas was not known for a long life so i ditched it at the same time.  Your boiler isn't much different than mine so you should see something like 40% savings.

If your in western Mass  have Charles Garrity take a look at it. The quality of gas company installs can be very spotty, you would be better off having someone who knows steam look at it. -


This is just an approximation

@ March 4, 2014 9:33 AM in Anyone know the EDR for this antique radiator?

The EDR is determined by the surface area of the radiator so if you take a piece of string and put it around a column at a few different points and measure the circumference and then average those circumferences you will have an average of the columns circumference over it's length.

You said it's 39" high so lets subtract 4" from that; that gets us 35" so multiply that by the average circumference and that will tell you how many sq inches each column has. Dived that number by 144 to find out how many sq ft each column is and multiply that by the number of columns to get the EDR for that radiator.

That will get you pretty close to the EDR of that radiator, it's not perfect but should be good enough.


I talked to them

@ March 2, 2014 7:49 AM in Beating a dead horse.

when i replaced my v75 boiler and was going to switch to gas. I told the salesman i was interested in using a Megasteam on gas and he told me that would void the warranty on the boiler because it was not certified for gas. He sounded apologetic about it so I suspect this rule is coming from on high and may have more to do with legal issues than anything else.

I ended up installing a Smith with the Ez-Gas on it. The only people still using oil are those with no other option. With all the problems we read about with the IN series gas steam boilers I'm afraid Burnham will be reduced to selling buggy whips soon.



@ March 2, 2014 7:35 AM in So many problems...would be grateful for any help

It would help if you posted some pictures of the boiler and the piping around it so we can identify any problems that might be causing your problems.

When the water level drops, does it ever seem to come back up when the boilers been off for a while? If the water is really leaving we are talking about gallons of water and you would think the cause would become apparent. Do any of the boiler return pipes go into the cement? If they do there could be a leak where you can't see. A boiler that new should never develop a leak but it can happen so do have the boiler overfilled to be sure that is not the problem. Also make sure the pressure is below 2 PSI and have the pigtail under the pressuretrol checked to make sure it is clear.


Adjust them carefully

@ March 1, 2014 6:52 PM in Help me ballance my 1 pipe steam Please!

The boiler can't put water into the steam pipes but the near boiler piping can, is it piped according to the diagram in the installation manual? If your in doubt post some pictures of the boiler and near boiler piping.

I would not try drilling the Hoffman 40's out. A little water is normal as long as it does not prevent it from working, sometimes you get a bubble of water that seems to stop the vent from working and that is not good. The Hoffman #1 can get water bound at higher vent rates, they are probably best used at the low end of the range.

If you take the hex top off the adjustable cap and remove the cap, you can see that the slop in the hole makes it all to easy to vary the vent rate because  of the slop.  Try loosening the hex adjustment and keep the cap centered as you tighten it down after setting the vent rate. Set the vents so they are at 1 making sure to keep everything centered as you tighten it up.

Try setting them all low and then try increasing the vent rates in the rooms that seem slow to heat. Assuming the slow vents are working you might consider the Maid O Mist for the ones that need faster venting.

Are all the horizontal pipes in the basement pitched correctly and consistently? What pressure is the boiler running at when making steam?


Hoffmans not easy to adjust

@ March 1, 2014 10:25 AM in Help me ballance my 1 pipe steam Please!

If the guy's name was Frank he knew exactly what he was talking about. Have you checked the pipes in the basement to be sure they have the correct slope, also check all the radiators with a level to make sure there is a slight slope towards the input pipe. Do the slow heating radiators all come off the same section of steam main? It sounds like you may have some water sitting in a pipe that is collapsing the steam that is why it's important to check all the piping in the basement.

The Hoffman adjustable vents are not easy to adjust because the adjustment is very sloppy so it's hard to guess what the vent rate might be when you adjust them. Try using Maid O Mist 5L air vent that comes with 5 different orifices.

Use the smallest orifice in all the rooms that are too warm and larger orifices in the rooms that are cool. Be careful with the radiator in the room with the thermostat, that usually wants a slow air vent on it so it does not shut the system down to early BUT all suystems are different so you have to experiment.

The Burnham V8 boiler is not a very long lived boiler, if it dies and they give you a new block for short money it will still cost a bundle to get it installed. I would not install another V8 block. If they offer you a deal on the megasteam that is a very good boiler but they will void your warranty if you put a gas gun on it. Your best bet would be to install a Smith or Slant Fin wet based boiler with a power gas gun (EZ Gas is one brand) on it.

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