Heating Help

Sorry....double post

@ February 23, 2012 9:27 AM in new boiler with fin and tube bb.

It's unfortunate

@ February 23, 2012 9:27 AM in new boiler with fin and tube bb.

But you really have to find a better contractor. Look on the bright side, you already eliminated 3. Did you check the 'find a contractor' tab? Be vigilant, and ask the contractor about the need for a complete heat loss to be done before he comes out. If they don't know what you're talking about, move on. At the very least, a contractor should be able to quote you a price, based on the same size boiler, with the complete understanding that if you accept the offer, a complete heat loss will be performed, and a complete design will be presented, before the job starts, and any equipment ordered.
To answer a few questions, the only true number is the btu requirements form the heat loss. The amount of radiations will be used to size zones, and temperatures.

Quick response about heating oil...

@ February 23, 2012 9:13 AM in excess oil

Not all heating oil is the same as dyed diesel. Heating oil is usually high sulfur, and not to be used in newer diesel engine that require ultra low sulfur diesel. You actually cant use high sulfur in any piece of equipment in Penna., it has to be ultra-low. Even if you filter it out of your tank, and filter it into the next tank, it will still be crap. Just ask anyone who insists on re-using their heating oil when they get a new tank. They seem to have a lot of fuel related problems. Like Billtwocase and the others said, stop the automatic delivery, use it all up, or sell it to someone who burns waste oil.

ahhhhhh...now were getting somewhere....

@ February 22, 2012 5:58 PM in aquastat low setting during summer months for oil boiler

It appears your boiler, for domestic hot water is controlled by your indirect.  Yes you can turn your low limit all the way down.  When the temperature drops in the indirect, the aquastat in the indirect, will call the boiler to fire.  Of course if I'm wrong (hard to tell from the pics) you will have no hot water, and will have to turn your low limit back up.
I don't think you'll have a condensation problem.  Your boiler is going to fire at least 3 times a day, and after a DHW call, the boiler is going to be up to a  temperature of about 170/180 degrees.  Youll problem see the temp drop no lower then about 100-110 degrees.  And when the boiler fires, you'll be above condensing temps rather quickly.
Of course, nothing beats what actually happens as your true measuremnt.  Take a look inside the flue pipe, note what or what not is in there.  When you get your annual tune-up/inspection this fall, tell the tech what you did and ask him if sees any difference, good or bad, or any problems.  This would tell you if your system is going to been fine adjusting it as you wanted.
Just another thing, it is recommended to get the temp up in the indirect above 140 degrees to discourage the growth of legionella.  I strongly recommend you have a mixing valve installed, set your indirect aquastat higher, and mix down to a safer temperature.

just to clarify....

@ February 22, 2012 4:00 PM in aquastat low setting during summer months for oil boiler

your aquastat........r8182, or 8184?  you said 8184 or first post and 8182 on second.  I think you mean 8182.  Anyway, are you sure you see no wires coming out of the indirect hot water heater? low voltage wires? Seems odd, but not unlikely that the indirect is run off the boiler temperature and not the indirect tank temp.  When you say "if the tank drops far enough below the 120 degree setting) the circulator on the indirect comes on and the boiler starts". in order for the boiler to know the tank is below 120", it has to have an aquastat measuring the temp.
And to further clarify, when you say indirect, we're talking about a separate tank from the boiler, looks like a hot water heater, and not a coil, in the boiler for making domestic hot water?
Pics would always help.
But to answer one of your questions, when there is a domestic hot water call, the burner comes on, 10 degrees below your lo limit setting, and runs shuts off at your low limit plus your differential.  In your case from 130 to 155.  It shouldnt run it up to your high limit. Your hi limit should be set to 190.  If it does, that tells me your boiler cant get the btus over to the indirect fast enough (circ bad, piping wrong).

check for 2 things...

@ February 22, 2012 2:04 PM in carrier oil furnaces

First of all, I have a few, and yup you're right.  I guess without the model number we don't know the best nozzle/air band/shutter settings to start with.
1. Check for air infiltrations.  Especially at the burner flange/gasket, and the transformer gasket.
2. Cracked heat exchanger.  Seen it on the back or the top.  On one, looking down the tube, thru the end cone.  Was blowing the fire back when the blower came on.
So I would pull the burner, check the chamber, replace with new gasket.  Find the model number, and compare with oem spec book, to return to starting nozzle/settings.  Do a heat exchanger test for cracks.  Make sure the pump is at the right pressure, make sure the draft is adjusted right, double check your z dimension,  and go from there.  I know, shouldnt have to be that tough.
What were your combustion numbers (or the best you could come up with)?

The Viessmann....

@ February 22, 2012 1:57 PM in Viessmann oil fired boiler running real low wtr temp!

can run on water temps down to 80 degrees.  It doesnt mean you're not condensing, it just means the boiler can handle it.  Now your flue pipe, and chimney, I'm sure theyre condensing like crazy, and I think that will be a problem.  Did anyone check the temperature of the flue at the breech? What were the numbers?
There is a Viessman guy on this site, and I'm sure when he sees your thread, he'll be able to help you further (his id might be ViessmanBob).

absolutely...

@ February 22, 2012 1:45 PM in Tune after flue lining?

have them come out, reset the draft, then adjust for smoke, then combustion analyzer for maximum operating condition/and efficiency.  The liner is most likely going to give you much more draft, hopefully you still have the proper draft regulator on the flue pipe.  If not, tell the tech to bring one with him.

few quick questions....

@ February 22, 2012 1:42 PM in aquastat low setting during summer months for oil boiler

You say you have an indirect hot water heater.  How is that controlled? Is there an aquastat on the indirect?  If so,  do you also have a mixing (anti-scald) valve piped in between the cold water coming into the indirect and the hot water coming out? If so, here's my recommendations:
1.. Keep the indirect tank temp above 140 degrees (with the indirect aquastat), and mix down to a lower temperature to prevent scalding.
2.  Turn the low limit on the boiler aquastat all the way down.  If you domestic hot water keeps up with demand, leave it like that for the summer.  If it doesnt keep up, turn it up 10 degrees, try again for a day or 2.
If you do not have a separate aquastat controlling the indirect, you could install one with a different control strategy.
If you boiler aquastat controls the domestic hot water demand, you could lower it 10 degrees, try it for a couple of days, or raise the diff all the way up.
Either way, it helps if all the pipes are insulated.  In my case, with an aquastat on the indirect, in the summer, my boiler only runs 2 or 3 times a day with regular use.  Yours is running every few hours because the aquastat control is trying to maintain that temperature, and your boiler is losing probably around 10-15 degrees per hour.  The indirect temperature is held much better, the reason why you should try to control your hot water demand off of the indirect temperature.

microsoft paint

@ February 21, 2012 5:48 PM in 9 units

is easy too.

you can also....

@ February 21, 2012 5:46 PM in excess oil

see if you can find a local mechanic's shop who burns waste oil.  I'm sure they would be more then happy to take it.

congrats on the heat...

@ February 21, 2012 5:43 PM in I have heat!

And thanks for coming back.  I remember you poppin on and asking tons of questions, and getting tons of great advice.
I agree with Peter on the pipe color.
Everything looks fine, but sheesh, couldnt the installer cleaned up the tubing at the manifold?  He had the entire wall behind the piping to attach some clips.
Enjoy the radiant....keep us posted, or ask more questions  

Tony!Toni!Tone!.........

@ February 21, 2012 8:38 AM in Cost Effective Radiant Floor Heating System For Soon To Be Home

(no one under 40 should get that)
Tony, this Is definitely the case of you get what you pay for. If you go as cheap as possible, you will hate it. Sounds like you have a little time to make a decision, so here is what I recommend:
1. Have an installer that knows radiant.
2. Submit your plans, including all floor coverings, and building materials (r values) to a supply house who can completely design your system, and do a proper heat loss. At the time of the design, you will get a complete list and price of all materials, a heat loss, piping diagrams, etc.
3. If the numbers work for you, then proceed. If not, putting a system together on the Internet, and mixing and matching different products, tubing, components, and systems together is going to give you a lifetime of headaches.
Yes radiant will cost more then any other system, but properly done, it will save money, and provide you with much more comfort than any scorched air system.
To more specifically address some of your points, the more expensive systems just work better. Others trade cost with more labor intensive methods. If your doing tile, you have the opportunity to put the tubing in wetbed. If you are building from scratch you can put the tubing in a properly insulated slab. That's why I recommend getting a true radiant pro in there during design, and that will save you money with the system.

I answered ya....

@ February 20, 2012 2:24 PM in Superintendent

check your post in radiant :)

Thats a new one for me.....

@ February 20, 2012 2:17 PM in Behind those walls

Just make sure there's no asbestos in there.  Sounds like a poor insulator.  If you got it exposed, youre probably better off yanking it and redoing it with regular batts, and continuous vapor barrier for the bathroom.

how exactly.....

@ February 20, 2012 2:11 PM in Two thermostats running one boiler

are you heating the different apts?  I see boiler, but is it one zone to multiple apts?  Baseboard, radiators?  One pipe, 2 pipe, etc.

why didnt you just use.....

@ February 20, 2012 2:08 PM in Superintendent

15# roofers felt?  Yes they say never to use it......you'll smell it when it heats up.  But I have always used it, including my own house, and never had a problem.
I never heard of doing it your way, so maybe someone else may be able to answer you.

can't find it either..

@ February 19, 2012 12:35 PM in GB 142 head loss

Scoured everything I have, cant find it.  The only thing I can come up with is..Grunfos UPS 15-58, speed one, give you a 26 deg delta T, with no notes for speeds 2, or 3.

meters........i have a few...

@ February 18, 2012 12:09 PM in Multimeters

That's a great meter, got one when I took a firedragon class, and have been using it ever since.  Also have a Craftsman clamp on, about 20 years old, and an EXTECH EX23.  They all do different things, different ways.  Having more then one lets you leave on clamped on, or one reading a cad cell, while your checking other things.  Most important to me is peak hold (all 3), 2 k type connectors, (extech), clamp on, (sears/extech), IR and capacitance.  You'll probably need more then one, and go through more then one.  If you on a job with someone who has a different meter, try theirs out too.

of course you will.....however....

@ February 17, 2012 2:19 PM in new boiler with fin and tube bb.

Youl'll also see savings with an outdoor reset control added to your boiler.  You're rads only need 180 degree water maybe 12 times a year.
If you go with a new boiler, make absolutely sure the installing contractor does a complete heat loss and sizes the boiler correctly.  With a mod/con, outdoor reset, and even adding dhw with an indirect, you'll see substantial savings. 

Some comments...

@ February 17, 2012 8:39 AM in Buffer Addition

1. I'm going to need to see a pic of the model railroad. Has nothing to do with the design. Lol
2. What kind of boiler do you have now?
3. Why do you think you need the bypass with the buffer? Does it have something to do with the solar? Hard to make out the components at the bottom of the pic.
4. I don't think you need the air eliminator in the primary loop. If the air gets to there, it could go right into the buffer tank and vent out the top. There' no air elimination in the solar loop, or any easy way to get it out after initial purging.
5. Little concerned with that many zone valves on the supply, but it may be ok with the Alpha.
Looks good, except for control strategy.
Btw what does the existing system look like now?

Hey Mark....

@ February 16, 2012 5:44 PM in New Lochinvar Knight Installation

could you post the thread where the pic came from.  I don't recall if you ever told us (not that you have to) how the job finished, besides the pic, and how it's performing.  I was also curious (i apologize for not remembering the terminology) how the vent piping is performing with the expansion sleeves.