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Joined on May 27, 2011

Last Post on July 28, 2014

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Dining Room

@ July 28, 2014 6:43 AM in Help with poor install

If I am looking at this correctly there is 20 feet of radiation in the dining room which requires 11.5 . This on top of the fact that it is on the hottest part of the series loop may well be the problem .  The thermostat may be satisfying before enough heat can be supplied to the other rooms . I would eliminate that 4 footer on the interior wall to start with and employ a Delta T circ for the first floor zone , this will have the zone run long enough to satisfy other rooms and keep the temps to all baseboards closer to an average .  A good starting point for the money it will cost . 


@ July 27, 2014 11:45 PM in Help with poor install

where is it located Paul ?  What are your plans for the basement ?

Fine Line 30

@ July 27, 2014 8:05 PM in Help with poor install

Could you please tell us in what room your series loop begins and ends ?   This could be very interesting . I have seen many systems sized perfect by the numbers but overlooking one important thing .  Every piece of heat removes energy and every piece after that is receiving a lower temp fluid which obviously effects its output . Also the imaginary 15% HEF .    And you said upstairs is good , correct ?

No ducts

@ July 27, 2014 7:52 PM in Builing an addition

You have hot water , keep hot water . Add panel rads w / trvson your new second floor , do a proper heat loss , downsize the boiler to something appropriate . Make the panel rads homeruns to a manifold with some ECM circ , put a thermostat in a 2nd floor room and set it 2 degrees above the setting on that TRV .  DO NOT PUT DUCTS . Any connection between unheated and heated areas is BAD .  Don't get sucked into the bringing the attic into the thermal envelope tarp just so you can install garbage . Leave the thermal boundary at the ceiling and let the attic breathe . Use a ductless minisplit with as few or as many evaporators that you deem necessary , they do come in other than ugly wall mounted beasts .   

Something for nothing Syndrome

@ July 26, 2014 6:11 PM in Want to move from oil to gas boiler. Best way forward?

They all are enthused with the idea that they are gonna get what we offered them in our bid for much less .   Space is the other thing , you mean I can have an extra 25 sq ft for all my s$%t that I don't need .  And then there's the Walmart theory , we can make it somewhere else cheaper .  Go ahead everyone support S Korea all the while you bitch about the economy here . 

Bad & No Math

@ July 26, 2014 6:02 PM in Help with poor install

lots of all of it happened here I would presume .  Could you attach pictures of the boiler and near piping and also how the baseboard was run ?
  Do some rooms have multiple pieces of heat ?  How did you arrive at the heat loss number for the first floor ? Is there LOTS of GLASS on the first floor ?  Remember , the BEST WINDOW is a TERRIBLE WALL .


@ July 24, 2014 9:35 AM in Want to move from oil to gas boiler. Best way forward?

correct Carl . I apologize to any who I may have offended with actual theory which makes sense .
 Funny thing happened last June 2013.  I was in Cranston and there were a bunch of guys there that work for Navien . Some were from the West coast and some from Cherry Hill , All tech support guys though . What was amazing is the fact that while overhearing their conversations and listening to their questions it occurred to me and many others that these guys knew nothing about hydronics , they only had manufacturer product specific training and knew NO SCIENCE .  Really was illuminating to me . Just sayin


@ July 24, 2014 8:51 AM in Want to move from oil to gas boiler. Best way forward?

Chris and Snowmelt ,
   Chris , in all fairness the Navien would be able to provide 100k for space heating at a 40* Delta T . Lest we never forget the Universal Hydronics Formula . 
George the Navien will never be able to provide 199K for space heat . Again ,Lest we never forget the Universal Hydronics Formula .


@ July 24, 2014 8:43 AM in Want to move from oil to gas boiler. Best way forward?

Are you empl;oyed by Navien or did they certify you to install their product ?


@ July 24, 2014 8:34 AM in Want to move from oil to gas boiler. Best way forward?

The only combis you hear about are tankless . Why is that ?  Because the guys installing them don't know or only care about the wrong thing , first cost . After they install them and add P&S piping and do it wrong and come back to your house 5 times and your still unhappy then you go to the wall for a 300 post discussion you still have garbage .  Here , this is made right here and serves your purpose better . With a 1 bath house it is plenty and your efficiencies will be just fine with the right control strategy . This is a combi , just the right kind .
  Keep your money here at home and have it done right .  All you need extra with this is a nice Taco I series outdoor reset valve . Tankless looks sexy but when you get to the party she's really just an ugly fat chick .

Hubbard Cobb

@ July 24, 2014 8:20 AM in What did it cost in 1960?

Your dream house for under 3500 dollars (1950) .   Yes boys , it had radiant heat


@ July 24, 2014 8:13 AM in Tubing size, spacing, flow rate for a joist install

Rob Brown is at Rockport Mechanical in Lewiston Me .  Maybe you could contact him for assistance

Expansion Tanks

@ July 22, 2014 7:29 AM in bladder tank total volume - who cares?

May be the only part of our systems where bigger is better won't hurt . Remember to charge that tank before filling the system .


@ July 22, 2014 7:25 AM in Inexpensive boiler buffer tank

are too small for this

Delta T

@ July 17, 2014 9:03 PM in Complete new system on small house

Also take into account that CI Rads play very well with 30 - 40* Delta T so with ODR you can be in the condensing condition for much of the year

Thermal Battery Systems

@ July 16, 2014 11:46 AM in GEO COOLING

Contact James Schenck . He is who you wanna speak to . Listen to what he has to tell you and be glad you did .

Default in my mind

@ July 15, 2014 1:48 PM in Second guessing

when I am out in a remote site I always order 3 lineal feet for every 2 square , 0" 12" 24" , 3 lineal feet for 2 sq . We save lots of trips this way and always have stuff in shop for those small jobs .


@ July 15, 2014 11:46 AM in Second guessing

 there are in fact 3 lineal feet of tubing in two square feet . @ 0" - 12" - 24" .  And due to the time of my post last night I reverted to my default 1 trip to the supply house calculation , I do apologise , after reading this now in my office after coffee and being wide awake I correct myself and say 12" center would require along the lines of  1,850 ft with leader lengths and 9" spacing would require about 2340 feet . You are correct .

12 @ 200

@ July 14, 2014 11:16 PM in Second guessing

Is 12" oc layout . 1,600 ft building , 2400 feet of tube .  Besides the lack of quality insulation . Sounds as if the average depth below grade is 4' , any chance the guy will excavate tat and install 2 - 4" of EPS or XPS up against that wall ? That would be a huge help . 

Just Seeing this

@ July 14, 2014 7:11 AM in Bouncing Gas Pressure

Tim , sorry for the delay .    The series summation method is CSA approved engineering method .  The book on my desk is dated November 2006 but the method has not been changed . It appears on page 36 of that text and the iron pipe pressure drop tables appear on pages 88-91 and cover load and sizing from 10,000 through15,000,000 BTU ..  Gastite also has a downloadable size it program that supports every method . 
 We had a hell of a time explaining this method to inspectors . Had lots of resistance and finally DCA assisted with a communicator to all inspection departments validating the engineering method and it's acceptability . We still have guys that need it explained to them .Gee , imagine that !

Most Folks

@ July 13, 2014 2:28 PM in Getting into mod/con business

have no clue about all the thought we dedicate to every single job Gordy . I think they miss the point that those hours which they never see are money well spent .

Monitor MZ

@ July 13, 2014 12:25 PM in Getting into mod/con business

Funny you should mention the MZ Bob .  We are doing a job now for a woman whose husband is employed by the gas utility . He , in his infinite wisdom retrofitted his former home with radiant , some embedded some sandwich . Non barrier tubing , electric stripped out water heater for a buffer laying horizontal , 20+ circs (B&G NRF22s) , no water treatment for heating system with well water system .  Female homeowner has house after divorce , pays monthly maintenance / repair contract , heat goes out in January , tech cannot figure out what is wrong , bypasses safeties & flue safety after being instructed to do so by office , states this is against his better judgement on written paperwork . House almost burns down , everything in house freezes , house destroyed essentially . Insurance company is ecstatic , they have the best case one could hope for , written negligence by an employee .  We spent 5 complete days flushing lines to my satisfaction ( Caleffi flush/fill) . Found so many problems with house other than what is obvious .  After dissecting Monitor I found the trap completely filled with lime scale .  Just an example of the so many things that can go wrong .
  Anyone who thinks your gas supplier is an authority on anything , think again . 
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