Joined on May 27, 2011
Last Post on April 16, 2014
@ July 5, 2013 8:03 PM in mixing strategyI agree with Swei concerning the mixing valve he recommends . I use it myself quite often in an attempt to keep it simple yet effective and the I Series w/ODR has not disappointed yet . Let the boiler reset handle the higher temp and the valve do the lower .
I am curious about how the flow rates were figured out . Seems to me that at 63,000 BTUh you should be pushing 12.6 GPM and the 45,000 should be flowing at 9 GPM . Was a heat loss done on the home also ?
@ July 4, 2013 9:19 PM in Lochinvar WHN vs Crest vs othersuse what you're comfortable with . Stay away from the NTI however . Bad experience with them after using 6 on same job (6 units) . Problem after problem . Lochinvar and TT are both very good units as you are aware . Don't start to experiment now .
@ July 4, 2013 12:15 PM in Sizing boileris heat loss . Whatever the building loses must be replaced no matter what technology or method is replacing it . Some ways just do it much better . Since you have been instructed to use a GB and a heat loss has been given to you whether accurate or not the only boiler for you is the GB142/45 . It is right where you want to be but the next smaller option will probably fall far short .
@ June 30, 2013 3:18 PM in Taco X-Pump block, larger HX availibilityside pump is a 006 if I am not mistaken . I know for sure that the typical RMB is of this configuration . taking that into consideration if you are the slightest bit over 4' Hd it is operating at the top of it's curve
@ June 29, 2013 11:35 PM in Undersized boilerfeet of baseboard is NO WAY to determine boiler size or to perform a heat loss. Most baseboard on the market is putting out more than 580 per foot with 200* fluid also . What exactly was happening that is making your knucklehead , sorry contractor turn up the temps . You are correct that the higher temps you are running would negate the logic behind installing modulating condensing equipment . Taco does have a basic heat loss program built into FloPro Designer on their site as stated above . That should give you an adequate number to work with , Ra Puriri is online for assistance most of the time .
@ June 29, 2013 3:07 PM in Taco X-Pump block, larger HX availibilityWhat are the flow and head loss of either side of the HX ? 4.5 GPM @ 35* Delta would suggest an 80,000 BTUh requirement . I am sure that load exceeds what the XPB will supply . Under no circumstances will the Boiler side pump give you 10 GPM , it is under 8 GPM and the system side should easily give you 4.5 GPm at about 10.25' of head Why a 35* Delta T if you don't mind me inquiring ?
@ June 29, 2013 2:35 PM in Radiant heatall the zones guys . It was more a guide to what can be zoned together and water temps . If he zones them all separately he may use one Mixing device because as each is satisfied flow will stop and floors will not overheat . I do question 3 pumps though . Why not use one pump and 3 zone valves . To answer the original post . If all 3 areas have similar use patterns , similar finish floor R values , and similar BTU sq ft requirements , zone them together . And answer Gordy's questions for your benefit
@ June 25, 2013 5:27 PM in Who makes modulating non-Condensing Boilerscheck this out . May just fit your bill . Boiler , buffer tank , tankless water in one unit . Made in Mass , never had a problem with this HTP combi equipment . Just an idea .
Video demo .http://www.htproducts.com/versaflamevideos.html
@ June 22, 2013 11:54 AM in Multiple ODRs?is the difference in water temps between the slab and staple up ? I believe too many people get caught up in the overheating game . If you run one temp and zone aggressively or in your case zone the slab will be zoned differently than the staple up you do not HAVE TO use 2 SWTs or slab sensors . Surface temp of your emitter determines temp in room , thermostat satisfies when setpoint is reached , zone shuts down , no more flow to floor , no more temp climb in emitter . Your slab may even be a bit more responsive but if zoned properly it will not overshoot .
In very large houses however where there are several thousand BTUs to be had you should certainly run multiple temps . If you do decide to use mixing , let the boiler control higher temp as single boiler setpoint and use a mixing device such as Taco I Series with ODR . Very easy to implement and your already slow responding slab won't be starved and have to play constant catch up .
@ June 20, 2013 6:48 PM in Plumbing Forum?the site is fine as it is and I for one agree with your rationale , not that it matters . I have been doing this for 30+ years and don't have a license (don't want one either) . There are 6300+ active plumbing Licenses in NJ and possibly 700 Real plumbers (Damn 80 & 90's) . Heat Pro , would you have an oldtimer like me sit out of the action , after all A revolution is a revolution no matter how long the lever
@ June 20, 2013 6:33 PM in outdoor reset for radiant floor heatusing setback thermostats on this area ?
@ June 17, 2013 2:33 PM in Condensor to Water conversionwould be the sequence of operation you are contemplating Rob ? Have been thinking about all matter of different stuff lately
@ June 17, 2013 1:44 PM in Condensor to Water conversionare you wanting to produce Heating cooling combi radiant systems ?
@ June 17, 2013 1:30 PM in Delta t ...... The obsessionare being achieved by what means Jean David ?
@ June 15, 2013 9:00 PM in in slab radiantare all that matter as the end result . My point is the wider the Delta T the more heat that is being transferred into the space . The most efficient boiler is the boiler that is not running . So you are the occupant of a home that has a poorly (if at all) designed heating system , not all that uncommon , welcome to the ranks . With any luck your radiant tubing is in a nice layer of sand and not right in the concrete like so many ,
One can assure return temps without compromising heat transferred into the space , running a system with no Delta T is absolutely nuts . You don't need a rich uncle to finance your project or little tweaks here and there . 500.00 installed for an ECM is a bit high in my book , I sell comfort and efficiency on a daily basis and know what these things cost to install and believe me 500.00 a piece is too high to change out a circ for a local contractor .
You would not hurt your efficiency at the boiler by raising the SWT 5* and using a circulator that more closely matches your load requirements and getting a wider Delta T , more heat is being transferred then and your boiler will actually gain efficiency along with running less . You need heat transfer period . The less heat that is being removed from the delivery side of the system the less efficient it is . You cannot nor can anyone argue this simple fact . Less cycles of the boiler whether they are short or nice efficient 10 minute ones is a good thing . 10* , 18* , 20* , 36* , 40* Delta T's are not some magic numbers and they are not just mathematically easier as a choice , they happen to be the numbers that have proven for these emitters to be the most efficient and getting the most heat out of them at any outdoor condition .
@ June 14, 2013 9:01 PM in in slab radiantdoes your computer use ? a Taco 007F5IFC consumes right around 80 watts while operating . You state your design temp is 14*F and in another thread you stated that you were effected by Sandy so I will guess that you are somewhere in my geographical area . The average size garage with the best garage door one can purchase with the best insulation you can install in a 2x4 wall with no windows has a requirement of 4,736 BTUh on a 14*F day and requires 82* AWT flowing at 1 GPM to maintain a surface temp of 71.2 and a room temp of 69* . Let's hypothesize that you are flowing 3 GPM at design , your Delta T would be 3*F , on a design day . This sir is not a designed system at all . When you design a system you must Choose a design Delta T , most manufacturers of Boilers , tubing , radiant heating products , heat emitters of all sorts agree on an industry standard 10* , 20* , there are a few product specific variants . Warmboard which the OP inquired about in fact recommends a 10*Delta T be run through their product to perform at stated outputs . Most manufacturers of tubing used in radiant heat applications concur with the 10* DeltaT through a slab a radiant floor with a few 20* product specific recommendations . These are facts , not assumptions , not opinions . They are all based on a formule known to heating system designers , unfortunately , whomever designed the boiler , DHW and controls of your system was not aware of this formula or just did not care enough to employ it .
Since you are pumping 3 GPM with a Taco 007 your head loss must be 9.5' - 9.75' head loss , this conclusion is arrived at by observing the pump curves as per Taco as of 09/09/09 . Your system that requires around 24,000 BTUh as per you must short cycle quite a bit at any temp above design considering your narrow Delta T's , this also is a fact , if it does not then sir the laws of physics ceased to exist at your front door . Many of us install new systems in buildings that are existing , some of us perform a heat loss before installing the equipment and less of us take the time to tailor a system to the needs of the home taking into account the existing emitters that will be our distribution system .
Your boiler is not working to it's potential , your emitters are not transferring enough heat to your space and I can almost with certainty say that one of the following is true , A. see the bottom of all my posts , B. You researched how heating systems work on the internet and heard more opinions and hypotheses than fact and this was verified by a plumber who did not really know and listened to what you said and is now spouting that off as gospel on some site .
Live and learn I suppose
@ June 13, 2013 10:19 PM in in slab radiantno heat is being transferred to the room and you are moving 20 GPM per 10000 BTUh when it is above 50 ? You must have a big buffer tank . Most folks only require 2 GPm to actually heat the space . I would surely suggest changing that circulator to an ECM if for nothing else but the electrical savings , does your home sound like a model train is running through the floor ? I wonder .