Joined on May 27, 2011
Last Post on December 10, 2013
@ October 12, 2013 10:29 AM in A flow problemlike the sensor for the I Series is on the zone valve header Bob . Nathan You have given us the numbers for one manifold , what are the GPM requirements for the others along with the one you have told us about ? That 008 VDT will only pump in the mid to high 7 GPM range at 10.? feet of head . If your requirements for the whole system exceed those GPM for all manifolds you will need to increase the pump size . I do not believe that you will have the control over Delta T that you were hoping to accomplish in any case with only the single circulator .
@ October 12, 2013 9:49 AM in A flow problemThis pump must be located within the mixed temp portion of the piping arrangement , it seems as though none of these manifolds /loops will be receiving even a fraction of the heated water they require . You also must install some means of purging the air from this system . If these zone valves all have a manifold at the other end of them with multiple loops you better be sure that what you described to us is in fact the greatest head pressure in the system and remember to add all GPM rates . When multiple manifolds are served by a single circ the head losses for all should be pretty close to each other , I am not certain that the Deltas will be as tightly controlled as I am sure you had wished either . Again , start out with purge set up and relocating that pump between the Zone valves and the I Series . After performing these things let us know how it is responding then .
@ October 12, 2013 7:39 AM in A flow problemWhen you said you set pump to full speed , what do you mean ? Check all your values again also .
@ October 12, 2013 7:35 AM in A flow problemI can certainly see your reasoning , explained in that way . I have been doing this when it makes sense for quite awhile and have not encountered the problem you anticipate yet . I also use the smallest I Series possible without making head losses too great for pump to deal with and let the Delta T pump do its' job , the pump will be dealing with Delta T's that are always changing regardless of mixing method or where it is done . Many are using the I Series within injection loops with great success , Taco also supports this use . Should we never use a Delta T circ there either ? The supply temp should not change that much if at all during a call for heat and it should not be and is not an issue thus far on my systems . Using a device that is smaller than the piping it will be connected to is not an issue either and in fact is desirable , you lessen the amount of water that it has to regulate allowing it to achieve the proper temperature faster . As long as you don't go with a Cv that is too low . Maybe this makes sense to yourself and Carl , hope it does .
@ October 11, 2013 8:38 PM in Looking for a decent boiler w/ indirectIf you are intent on using a mod con boiler make sure you put install much more baseboard then you require . If you install to match the load you will have to run temps that are too high for your efficient boiler to be efficient . It will operate at about 86 - 88% . That would be a shame and a waste of your money . Also listen to Ironman . Better you don't allow your friend to do this or you may not be friends for long , the fact he is hesitant to recommend speaks volumes . Remember "Skilled labor aint cheap and cheap labor aint skilled "
@ October 11, 2013 8:30 PM in A flow problemCould you clarify what you were trying to say in that comment ? The I series regulates temp and will flow whatever the circ pulls through it .
@ October 11, 2013 7:36 AM in The best pipe dope.Dope isn't messy my friend , installers are . Some very interesting comments from years past on this thread . I do not work for any supplier or manufacturer and am an installer like all here. If leaks and neatness are what count and money is not an issue or your main concern you should be using an anaroebic sealant like Permabond LH050 . In the hands of a mechanic it is a fine tool. Hey , even the gas company guys who only know meter sets and hookups don't get leaks with it , there's a reason the gas companies use it . It is also easier to remove later if necessary
@ October 11, 2013 7:26 AM in code man says my DHW tank has to go as a heat source What now?There are a few manufactured that are approved for space heating . AO Smith vertex is 1 that jumps to minds . 76000 BTUh , HX and 2 pumps . Probably the least expensive , unintensive labor option . Then you will have an approved unit made to do both jobs . You sound very self reliant which is a good thing , it is too bad that Johnny Government always has to retard innovation and alternate methods . Of course there are other than AO Smith that is just the first unit that I think of .
@ October 11, 2013 7:12 AM in A flow problemDo you have a picture of the near boiler piping for us ? What piping arrangement is this , what type boiler ? Where is the circulator located in the system ?
@ October 10, 2013 8:07 AM in Replacing old style expansion tankair elimination devices can be found through Caleffi and Spirovent . Plug the fitting that the air vent is presently in and also the supply tee at top then add the new unit above your cold water inlet and pipe to the new tank out of a second tee that you will locate between the new eliminator and cold water . Pretty easy
@ October 10, 2013 6:48 AM in code man says my DHW tank has to go as a heat source What now?with us WHY the Code official states that it must go . There is a possibility that with some documentation and design on paper by a qualified person it may not have to . Codes and documentation in Canada are very technical .
@ October 8, 2013 5:37 PM in forced air to hot wateris not the way to go . Please tell me the exact situation you are looking at and how you intend to install the Ultra Fin and maybe we can tell you about better alternatives .
@ October 7, 2013 9:55 PM in forced air to hot waterDo not use it , you will be making a HUGE mistake . Suspended tube systems are for interior areas that need very little heat ,SOMETIMES. The idea of Buderus Panel rads with TRVs is a good one , why not use them everywhere ? Only the areas that require heat will get it , you will be extensively zoned without wires , and you will save a ton of fuel money . I would run them all as homeruns from a central manifold and use a variable speed ECM circ capable of handling the volume and pressure required if they are all calling at once , unlikely . As far as boilers go , there are many good ones out there . If you want to use a condensing boiler you will have to upsize the Panel rads a bit to insure the High efficiency boiler is getting low enough return water temps for you to receive the rated efficiencies for a good portion of time every year . I would be inclined if budget is a constraint to go with an 85% boiler , a 3 way Taco I series mixing valve with outdoor reset and boiler protection and sit back and enjoy the comfort and savings . Just my .02 .
@ October 2, 2013 7:19 AM in Converting from Oil to HE Gas - WM unit recommendationSwei's advice and have the heat loss done . These contractors may have been referred by friends but that does not make them the guy to use . Since none did a heat loss that has been confirmed .
Of the units mentioned I could only recommend the WM97 . Don't much care for either of the others . Being as you only have one zone you really want to make sure you get the smallest boiler capable of heating your load at design conditions and also one that will modulate down really low . Again , Swei's recommendation is good
@ September 29, 2013 4:29 PM in High flow shower headsthe temp in the water heater and use a tempering valve like the Taco 5000 . You should be able to produce damn close to your requirements then . considering that much of the water needed in this way is cold . With the right temp in the tank you should get away with .45 gallons mixing with .55 of cold to get you to 120* . You could just pull it off without spending a lot of scratch . By the way , there are only water heaters , not hot water heaters . Very common engineer , architect mistake .
@ September 29, 2013 2:10 PM in First high efficiency boiler on my own...short cycling! Help!Thank you for your help in the past on many discussions about the Delta T - P debate . As always I am a firm believer in Delta T pumps , ECM or other (vdt) . This is from my previous comment here ". Besides that you may want to manage the Delta T of the secondary loop with a variable speed pump so it slows the water down through that loop and returns water a bit cooler to the boiler . If baseboard use a 20* Delta t and if radiators you may want to go between 30 and 40* " . This is always a good idea . I do believe this system is gonna require a bit more help also however .
@ September 28, 2013 11:53 PM in Taco wiring questiondidn't you purchase a ZVC 404-4 ? You could have spliced into the wires from both T Stats and run them to their own terminal to open that zone valve when either called for heat . I would change the Relay to the 404-4 . Easiest cheapest way and it will still be clean . If this worked for years it should still work . Hope this helped .
@ September 26, 2013 4:30 PM in Need more heat - options?Is probably the best high output baseboard you will find , 3 or 4 different piping options and very high output since you will be using hotter water to make the existing stuff perform . The panel rad option is a very good one and they really are not that damn expensive . Haydon and Slant Fin also make real high output baseboard but you are not gonna find it on the shelf at your local supplier usually . I personally do not like the GV90+ , there are better options . You should also have whomever is gonna do the work utilize Delta T pumps for your system as they will allow the installed radiation to utilize more of the heat before putting too hot water back to your boiler . f you use the Smiths baseboard and it is piped with 2 parallel supplies you may be able to just replace the existing baseboard and not do too much work .
@ September 25, 2013 8:16 AM in First high efficiency boiler on my own...short cycling! Help!Never size your boiler to the radiation installed , NEVER . Square feet within the building is not accurate either . All buildings are different and depending on construction , insulation , windows can vary drastically . Find an online heat loss calculator and perform a room by room heat loss . Never listen to a supply house guy that makes his living by what he sells you determine your equipment sizing , there is just a conflict of interest there . The first guy that plumbed this house could have been using a rule of thumb like the famous old one that states " North of the Mass pike you use 35 BTU per ft and South of the pike you use 25 . Sounds pretty stupid huh . If you have inherited a home that this guy sized the radiation for you will be lucky because you should be able to lower the SWTs quite a bit and get some of the rated efficiency of that boiler out of it . Operating as it is you are quite probably getting no more % than a quality mid efficiency cast iron boiler . The lower the water returning to it the better .
Definitely do the heat loss , measure square foot of each room , exterior walls , R value (insulation) window sizes and types , doors (same) , and enter the numbers . You may well find out that you only need to provide 15 - 20 BTU per square foot which will let you dial that boiler down drastically . Besides that you may want to manage the Delta T of the secondary loop with a variable speed pump so it slows the water down through that loop and returns water a bit cooler to the boiler . If baseboard use a 20* Delta t and if radiators you may want to go between 30 and 40* The Burnham tech can tell you what speed to set the primary circ at , setting it at a higher speed increases your short cycling issue by putting more hot return water through the boiler .
If you can make the time I would look into a 2 day trip to Cranston RI for Tacos course called Advanced soup to variable speed nuts , there is a class scheduled in October . This course is by far the very best learning opportunity available at present for up and coming hydronic guys . No , I don't work for Taco .
@ September 21, 2013 8:21 AM in Help with using Navien in a primary/secondary loopas stated by others is a horrible idea . I see you have a 400 gallon storage tank there for the wood boiler and another tank w/ HX being used to heat water for domestic and heating .
Think about using the HX for just DHW , use the buffer tank as a hydraulic separator (it is) and plumb in your boiler / combi of choice properly sized for this system . I agree with everything stated above and would add that the Combi that you are thinking of will not adequately heat this volume of water .
Just plumb everything on the secondary side of the storage tank as it own zone , heat zones and DHW zone as a priority zone possibly . Using the tank that is there makes Pri / Sec . very uncomplicated . It is a buffer tank and the biggest concern will now be is that tank sized properly . The system as a whole should function much more efficiently .
Just pipe the supply and return to the tank in other words