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Joined on May 27, 2011

Last Post on August 27, 2014

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Zone valves

@ June 5, 2014 10:50 PM in Outrageous Banging

how many and what type of circulator is moving your fluid ?   Please try to tell us if this happens when all zones are opened or if only when some are open and some closed .  Did this happen before and got louder and worse and why did you add a zone ?  Your piping may be strapped and supported poorly where you can or cannot see , couple this with a single speed pump that is just right or oversized and when those valves close and the velocity changes in the open zones it can make a hell of a racket .  Bad support and strapping alone can cause this issue but if it got louder when you expanded the number of zones and added a valve makes it suspect .  A Delta T pump can lessen or eliminate this problem then if it persists continue searching . The new pump is a nice addition anyway and will improve the wire to water efficiency and fuel consumption somewhat .  You can only fix one thing at a time as it seems you already know .


@ June 5, 2014 4:50 PM in Online design services

Relax Stenty .  Where are you located ?  I guess you found one of those guys that knows it all and therefore will never learn anything .  Probably has been to 50+ product based trainings but has no clue why things do what they do .  Those who know how should always work for those who know why , unfortunately that is no longer the case .

Is this

@ June 5, 2014 7:03 AM in Outrageous Banging

a new install done recently or did this problem just appear ?  A bit of background would be helpful to help

forgot reading that

@ June 5, 2014 7:00 AM in Old Radiators Repipe

but I was speaking of utilizing the existing piping and having all within the envelope . Did not think anyone would even think I meant to not use glycol in any piping on the exterior . 

 " Flushing them can probably be accomplished from the individual S & R piping in the basement when you cut them free and probably would be a good idea , then you'd be cleaning the piping to remain and the rads ."

Keep it simple

@ June 5, 2014 6:56 AM in I ran across the system ......

Swap out the old monster for a good quality 85% CI boiler and call it a day . # 2 option , swap it out with a mod con that can easily pipe to the existing piping with out requiring additional or higher head pumps for restrictive HX and P / S piping. This unit should have ODR so when and if that Sarcotherm goes you will still keep that capability . HTP Pioneer comes to mind .


@ June 4, 2014 8:33 PM in Old Radiators Repipe

should be fine if you must use glycol .  Use bypasses at the TRV so the water will be right there when needed .  Don't know how poorly the home's thermal envelope is but you may be able to use no glycol on a constant circulation situation .


@ June 4, 2014 7:27 AM in troubleshoot constant call for heat

charges for the amount of time required to do the job properly .  The Uponor zone control module I mentioned earlier will let you know that an actuator is opening with a red flashing light until the time when the valve fully opens and the light is solid .


@ June 4, 2014 7:10 AM in Old Radiators Repipe

S & R piping is not your best option for this system .   This piping should be large enough to get supply water to all the radiators .   Is there a way to employ a manifold near the boiler and run 1/2" home runs to each radiator ? If not I would lean toward 1 1/4 " or larger S & R piping to insure adequate flow .  I see that you have TRVs in the system also , you'll be able to use a nice ECM circ like a Taco bumble bee or other for constant circulation with a 30-40 * Delta T .  If you use the smaller pipe you will not be able to use an efficient circulator and will more than likely be stuck with a fixed speed pump which will not be conducive to comfort or heat transfer . Larger S & R , TRVs , ECM pump will allow all parts of the system to run at their most efficient , will provide better comfort and lower fuel bills . Outdoor reset may also be an option .
  Flushing them can probably be accomplished from the individual S & R piping in the basement when you cut them free and probably would be a good idea , then you'd be cleaning the piping to remain and the rads .


@ June 3, 2014 7:07 AM in Time to pull the trigger

when that happens Gordy . Happens more often now as we move past P/S pipng .

Chevy vs Caddy

@ May 30, 2014 7:46 AM in Utica vs Lochinvar

Kind of a general statement and kind of funny . I see a lot more 50's era chevys than Caddy .  What do you think of Dunkirk Boilers  , right up there with Lochinvar ?   That is a trick question , both Dunkirk Helix and Utica SSC mod con boilers are produced by ECR International and both are very good units with a superior heat exchanger design .  They are in fact the same boiler . Chevy vs Caddy < furnace vs boiler


@ May 30, 2014 7:08 AM in Joe the Toe, overloaded!

let me guess . It also has a mod con in an attempt to be efficient .  Please let us know what you find Harvey .

Should be

@ May 29, 2014 8:33 PM in Heat load calc( to pay, or not to pay)

are scary words SWEI .  Everyone that performs any job should be capable . But if that actually was the case we all would not have made thousand of comments and offered so much help to those that weren't even aware that they should be wary .

Versa Flame

@ May 29, 2014 8:28 PM in Time for an upgrade/retrofit

would cost about the same as the other units being discussed . The lack of internet availability most would consider a good thing , HTP does frown upon other than qualified persons installing , but you can find it online . Pioneer is about 1/2 the cost of the units discussed .  Standby losses are < 1/2* per hour due to 2-3" blown foam insulation . How well is the tank on the others insulated ? A small Gas usage keeping this unit heated based on the math would require 1 therm of NG every 15 days if default 7* diff is used . Hardly a concern .  Boiler , water heater , air and dirt separator outdoor reset , low maintenance or less maintenance , killer support as others here can attest , ease of installation .  Just sayin , it hangs right in there with the others and very soon mass and storage will be the big story .  WM 97 and ECO are relatively new units and I suspect will have similar problems to the ULTRA , 12 years young and on it's third series (not by coincidence but out of necessity) , TT which in my opinion is light years better than anything WM is just keeping up with the Jones's with the combi unit that a minimum of 2 other manufacturers recently marketed , gotta compete ya know .
  Just thought you and others might like the ease , quality and cost . 

Listen to ZMan

@ May 29, 2014 7:37 AM in Heat load calc( to pay, or not to pay)

The blower door numbers will tell the story . You will really have to be on top of insulators , and all the trades to insure the modeled tightness .  Can give references for the ONLY guy that knows about Reynolds numbers and designing proper loop fields in Central New Jersey , and trust me there is only ONE .  We have fixed many peoples short fields , bad calcs .  Remember also when choosing the equipment that the pump(s) which move the source  side fluid are not included in the COP number any longer and have not been for a couple years . Have seen many a disappointed consumer when they get the electric bill due to this . Watch out also for the point where a system may drop below COP of 4 . I have seen this all too often also .  I have seen it so poorly designed that we had to shut the HP down at 36* and allow the boiler to take over or else have excessive electric bills . If you are in Jersey you can contact me for the name of the driller , this guy only does it right .    In the end though that ACH number becomes HUGE


@ May 28, 2014 10:03 AM in Time for an upgrade/retrofit

What specific TT unit are you thinking of using .  Is warranty not an issue with looking at used and field models .
  Carl ,  My thoughts as always are in making installs as economical , simple as possible without sacrificing quality .  The Pioneer / Versa Flame have stellar air and dirt separation built into the unit , they have mass which we all know the lack of creates problems in many installs and Andy stated he would rather not buy another piece of equipment like an indirect .
Andy , I will comment further when I know what model you are thinking of specifically . Most combis like I believe you are referring have a valve that switches the unit from heating to domestic production , in my eyes and after replacing a couple dozen of them on various manufacturers stuff it's just one more mechanical thing that can go wrong and is not always a snap to replace .  Be careful and contact the manufacturers with serial numbers on these used units you are entertaining , they may not be covered and if you speak to someone that says they are get it in writing to CYA .

It is

@ May 28, 2014 9:39 AM in Crazy idea

As houses are getting tighter mechanical ventilation has become necessary . They are called HRV and ERV . Unfortunately the hvacks are working for greedy builders and will continue to skip them due to cost .  These also should not be combined with the traditional ducted system but should be independent , see DOAS .


@ May 27, 2014 9:56 PM in Time for an upgrade/retrofit

use pattern would dictate what size unit .  How many people , what type of showerheads , fixtures (aerators)?  Lots of controllers , mixing valves ,wiring going on here .   
Re read Z mans comment , right in the beginning of the discussion .  This is exactly why you ned mass . It is already heated to temp and will replace the mass in the system .  It can condense also , no primary / secondary piping , no mixing valves , and it comes with a DHW module . Unit is way more affordable than all these gadgets , low maintenance because of generously sized , well constructed materials .  Hey , if it gains any traction , Siggy has shown and depicted them many times in the last couple of years . He also stated in this months P&M that he has personally not designed a system with P/S piping in about 8 years .  You need mass to replace mass , need lotsa water to replace lotsa water fast .  Probably should be running at a 40 degree Delta T also .
  I will link to it again in case you missed something .     Look at all the documentation and decide to use the type of equipment that solves lots of problems .  You should also be quite able to use a Bumble Bee with this also since it does not have a tightly constructed HX . Get a load of this heat exchanger  

Rocket Science ?

@ May 27, 2014 8:35 AM in troubleshoot constant call for heat

Please look at the link . This guy needs help and this is not that difficult .
   The SR relay for the circs is fine , If you use the end switches from Uponor zone control modules as if they were the t stats , they only complete a circuit .  These boxes are not magic and they are not that smart , they receive information from another source and open or close a circuit , period . Just use the right stuff . 
    Like I said above ,  Power a UPONOR zone control module with the 24v transformer , wire the t stats to the inputs on said zcm , wire the actuators to the proper terminals on the zcm , wire end switch from UPONOR zcm to SR relay and go home knowing the job works and is correct .  The only thing different about the manifold station picture is that all the pumps are at the manifolds and not in the boiler room so a single pump rlay was used , if they had all been in the boiler room an SR 505 would have been used . This happens to be a 6 zone manifold , All the connections are inside the wire raceway for the actuators . The picture shows before wiring , the link is the completed assembly


@ May 26, 2014 7:38 AM in Taco relay loud constant buzz! help!

That'll do it .  As far as soundproofing the first floor from the basement , you may want to take a 2 pronged approach . Ask if it is possible to while insulating the basement ceiling upgrade that insulation to Roxul R-23 Batt , this will also afford you a decent fire resistance along with acting as a sound barrier .


@ May 25, 2014 11:01 AM in Peer review please...

Mark , I think these guys are onto something . I have received pricing from them but won't post it here but will say they beat up all other products without negotiation . Have a look , . 
  James Schenk from Thermal Battery Systems in Montana has some real interesting stuff going on including data logging .


@ May 24, 2014 9:10 AM in Tips for quieting down a staple up radiant floor?

an outdoor reset mixing valve for the radiant portion of the system only . If at all possible change those circs out for a Delta T circ like a Bumble Bee .

Many times

@ May 24, 2014 9:04 AM in MunchkinT80 Error codes

after replacing the fan motor assembly and cleaning swirl plate and the like the control module needs replacing also . You just gotta fix one problem at a time . Star with the swirl plate , try to fire , replace fan motor assembly , try it , control module is next .  Try to find a service guy in your area .  Has this boiler been maintained and / or serviced regularly ? Should have been .
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