Joined on May 27, 2011
Last Post on July 28, 2014
@ February 18, 2014 6:07 PM in how prevalent is this?that you speak of Kenoryn usually utilize tried and true materials and methods and benefit from Sweat equity . They on average do not try to re invent but save money by doing it themselves .
MMM will soon find that the expansion tank he should have used was one meant for a potable water system , He will also find out that heat does not rise (lack of insulation ) nothing to show otherwise . His SUPER DUPER efficient condensing water heater will not condense nearly as much with 120* fluid entering it as it would with the manufacturer anticipated 55-60* water entering . He will go through pumps like a madman unless they are stainless or bronze . He will suffer from higher than normal air accumulation . Is that oxygen barrier tubing , not for use in potable systems ? He should really use poly propylene venting or at a minimum sch. 80 CPVC as we have now identified that PVC does not withstand the exhaust very well over about a decade . Internet companies that promote open systems usually end up defending those systems as is the case for the past several years , and you'll never see them out on a job site in jeopardy of being smacked upside the head , this is not by accident , a computer is easy to hide behind . Do you think the water in the radiant tubing will not breed nasties during the summer months or will hot water run through that tubing in summer heating the floor ? So much for no A/C . By the way , the men that frequent and comment on this site are the very best that exist in the design , consultation , installation of heating systems . We regularly solve horrendous problems from 100's & 1000's of miles away that the average guy cannot figure out standing in front of scratching his head . My guess is that we'll be assisting him at some point also . How's that for a diagnosis ? Just so you know , the average time in the field before you can even be considered a heating technician is probably a few more years than the average doctor spent in school and doing his residency . See the human anatomy has not changed in millennia , heating systems change all the time , we are kinda more like veterinarians , many different types of anatomies .
@ February 9, 2014 1:36 PM in Hot Rod,caleffi hydro air seperator vs p/s pipingview that webinar and use the hydraulic seperators or a buffer tank to provide separation of the circuits . You are right that they cost roughly the same but that sep goes in much faster also .
@ February 9, 2014 1:29 PM in New home and virgin to wood boilersnot undersized . Even if the house is leaky as hell you are probably oversized . Hell even de rating the output to 75% you still have 45 BTU per sq ft at your disposal . Like Harvey and I stated , perform the heat loss and include all walls , doors , windows that are exterior and the R values . That basement if it is mostly below grade is already pretty well insulated as far as Earth goes . I recently designed a home in Kittanning , not far from you that is roughly the same size and the heat loss was only 78,000 at negative seven degrees outdoor temp and indoor temp of 68 . Point is that I think you will be surprised at what those calcs tell you . You may even end up with free Domestic hot water during the winter months
@ February 9, 2014 12:53 PM in New home and virgin to wood boilersset of one and one quarter inch S&R should be quite sufficient . Don't buy anything else urged by a salesman yet .You may have shown up here just in time to avoid disaster .
@ February 9, 2014 12:48 PM in New home and virgin to wood boilerssee here , http://www.caleffi.info/webinars/ . Scroll down to renewable sources in archive and view the webinar as given by John Siegenthaler . It will certainly help . A room by room heat loss should be performed for this home also to determine what really needs to happen in regards to interaction between the indoor stuff and the outdoor boiler .
@ February 8, 2014 3:58 PM in Where to put Air Eliminatorto the left of where you took the second picture and take another showing all the piping on the side of the boiler , take a few others also so we can see all the piping and how it is run .
@ February 8, 2014 11:36 AM in New boiler, Insufficent heatWhere is this old tubing that your installer refers to ? This tubing all appears to me to be Uponor HePex. There is no paint on HePex now nor has there ever been to my knowledge . That barrier is applied inside and out by pulling the tubing through a bath of the barrier material the minute it comes out of the extruder . This barrier can reach at least extrusion temp (256*) without suffering any compromise of the applied barrier . Earlier in the discussion you mentioned mixing devices , could you show us a picture of those and where they are in the system ? My memory is not what it used to be , could you say again what type of floor you have there , is there overpour or concrete below your finish floor ?
There is still the issue of head pressure du to the length of the installed loops and the Delta T ( shows this ) . Could you tell us what numbers are on the pump for that manifold which has the 4 on it . It sounds as if the master bedroom is the area with the largest head loss and the circulator just struggles to heat that room . I am guessing that you have a 008 VDT , this because self proclaimed heating guys who do not actually know about heat have difficulty justifying the price of the correct pump in their mind when thy already invested 100.00 more than the typically used pump ,
I would really like to see this system in person just out of curiosity . If possible and within a reasonable distance I would volunteer my time to assist you . Where are you located , Monmouth or Ocean Counties are within what I would consider close enough , even into Middlesex , Burlington .
@ February 8, 2014 8:16 AM in New boiler, Insufficent heatthat are actually answers from the homeowner are great aren't they Gordy ? The action to get the right people in there doesn't hurt either .
@ February 7, 2014 10:16 PM in New boiler, Insufficent heatHeat is both , see what one well placed obstacle can do ? Glad your stuff works now .
@ February 7, 2014 12:13 PM in ...wow...i'm speechlessa humidifier also ? wait for next installment . LMAO , Guess calling a plumber was just way too difficult .
@ February 3, 2014 10:25 PM in Question about floors over radiant heatYou posted that while I was typing ? Damn you Mark Eatherton ! LOL
@ February 3, 2014 10:20 PM in Question about floors over radiant heatis more the problem than surface temp . Everybody wants to blame the radiant floors . Since we are talking specifically about Brazilian Cherry though the max temp should not exceed 29.44*c (85) but have no fear , if the relative humidity in the structure is not controlled and stable your floor will still suffer some issues but there is always that pesky radiant floor heat to blame . Doubt very much you'll ever need a surface temp in excess of 78* in Oakland though .
@ February 3, 2014 10:04 PM in Rule of thumb for btusHere's a rule of thumb for ya , the only rule that matters . GET A PROPER HEAT LOSS DONE . Here is what rules of will get you , IN TROUBLE . Here are some I have heard . North of the Mass Pike 40 BTU sq ft , South of the Pike 30 BTU sq ft . How bout this real live horror , 150 sq ft room with a window that is 10 feet wide and 5 feet high on 1 exposed wall next to a room that is 340 sq ft has the same size window and 1 exposed wall . You would never guess that the BTU per sq ft requirement were so different on those 2 .
Measure the house in detail and punch in the numbers , also learn how to do it when the power is out by hand or with a calculator . There is no rule of thumb , only the right way . Read several posts here and see what the consensus first question is on any problem having to do with heat .
@ February 2, 2014 11:05 PM in New boiler, Insufficent heatYou say there are 2 for the master bedroom , are you sure there are not more than 2 ? 2 is not enough for this room , it should have at least 3 , if the ooVDT pump that was installed is a 008 it is not capable of adding the appropriate mechanical energy to a 2 loop configuration . This si shown on the reports I attached . I was hoping other pros would look at them to verify that fact . The 008 can move 4 GPM at roughly 14 feet of head , with only 2 loops you would have to be upwards of 20 feet .
You should certainly follow Rob's advice and contact someone that does this competently . If Joe is not available , I am here in NJ also . I Pm'd you my information .
@ February 2, 2014 10:56 PM in Hot water baseboard heatingI cannot believe there is still information coming to the surface here .
Fireplaces and woodstoves.in basements Oh my ! The basement is not a magical place where fire takes on a different face than on another elevation . Insulate with Roxul Safe and sound , put a 2 hour rated fire assembly (2 layers of 5/8 sheetrock ) and call it a day . Insulate under the Bonus room above the garage with the highest R value possible . Is the garage ceiling sheetrocked I hope ? Add the appropriate amount of heat in the bonus room also .
I have heard of no less than 7 installs similar to this one using this very same combination of equipment ( sizes vary ) right in Northern Mass . I feel as if I should contact the Mass Attorney General to start an investigation into deceptive practices and impersonating a heating contractor .
Dennis Foley Plumbing Inc , Somerville Mass .
Vanaria plumbing , Braintree
Emerson Swan , Bruce Marshall , Randolph . This gentleman may know of others that could help you in the area . He is a trainer and works for a distributor there . He will certainly know the correct people near you .
@ February 2, 2014 8:46 AM in Looking for a Buderus design proI will PM you with my information
@ February 1, 2014 11:19 AM in Hot water baseboard heatingmight have found something pretty large . Most guys I have encountered don't enter floor values when the system is not a radiant floor system . There can be quite a bit of downward loss .
@ February 1, 2014 9:50 AM in New boiler, Insufficent heatI am a bit late to the party here but will say all the advice you have received is quality . I would like to know who from what factory visited your home .
The fact that you have 32 zones is a good thing . Because of the number of zones and how this system is controlled you can raise the temp as high as you need to at any time , although this is not desirable as far as efficiency that the boiler will achieve . I will explain , when the floor surface temp in any zones reaches the temperature it should to satisfy that zone the thermostat will open and shut that zone down stopping flow thus making overheating the finish floor highly unlikely , no flow no more heat . What really interests me is the fact that I just designed a room 2 days ago that had tubing installed by another . That room is 672 Square feet has a modest amount of windows and has a design heat loss of 15,024 . Differences are that it is slab on grade with R 5 below and at perimeter .
This tubing was installed at 15" centers and the loops are in excess of 250 feet in length , design parameters are 0* ODT and 70* indoor . I will attach actual and what should have been at the end for review . Point being , your Master bedroom should have had more and shorter loops . If the 00VDT put in was not of the 0013 variety you are more likely than not ever going to achieve desired room setpoint . Couple that with the fact that 98% of the guys around here use default program settings or bogus design temps like 14* for here and you have a recipe for being cold . Harvey does what I do in asking the customer what they would like in their home , this is the only way to do it . So when a factory guy says this boiler and / or system should perform to design that may not be accurate because the design contains errors .
Good call on the insulation , that is always required , heat does not rise , it is lazy and stupid and will go the easiest way it can , By the way if heat rises how does the sun know to always have its top pointed toward Earth ?
Here are the reports from that exposed basement room , please look at them and see what you think
@ January 31, 2014 12:22 PM in Need some serious helpis 100% correct . That slab should employ outdoor reset . Without getting control crazy a Taco I Series ODR mixing device would be a good choice .
@ January 31, 2014 11:26 AM in Need some serious helpBTU requirement of smallest zone at design conditions so we may inform you what size your tank should be
@ January 31, 2014 11:25 AM in Need some serious helpis what this system requires . The low loss header must be removed and substituted with a buffer tank . I'll bet that at other than the most extreme low outdoor temps this boiler short cycles . Your mixing valve problem has to do with the fact that the circs MUST BE LOCATED within the mixed loop , you are pushing hot boiler water through them . With the pumps within the loop the valve is enabled to pull both hot supply AND cooler return water .
Go to Caleffi website . Scroll down to Idronics 14 , just released . Download and view page 41 , figure 7-14 . This is what your system should look like with the exception that there are no mixing devices shown . But they should be under the circ and connected to the returns accordingly .
What is your thought on this Pros ? Judging by your name I can guess that you understand that you can only get a return on a sound investment . It is time to remake your portfolio my friend