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RobG

RobG

Joined on June 4, 2011

Last Post on July 23, 2014

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Problem

@ July 11, 2014 10:05 AM in Bonding CSST:

One thing that always irks me is when I find a bonded line that does not go to ground but to the gas or water line. In these days of plastic water and gas piping there are still people that stick to the old ways. No Bueno! 

Dude

@ July 11, 2014 9:06 AM in Getting into mod/con business

Dude, you really need to chill out. I am just stating my opinion. You can do what you want to do but you cannot choose the consequences (someone on here uses something like that as there tag line). All that I am saying is that what you are trying to do has been done before, it even makes sense in some applications. I personally don't think that it fits your scenario. But opinions are like you know what. Do what you want.

Rob

Back fill

@ July 11, 2014 8:34 AM in Radiant cooling

Did they really back fill a 250 acre lake? That doesn't sound like much of a nature preserve :)
 How deep and how long is the loop and what kind of tubing and size?

Rob

My neck

@ July 11, 2014 4:48 AM in Did my plumber "F" up my system?

In my neck of the woods one inspector does it all framing, plumbing, gas,electric, hvac. If it don't leak or spark, it's fine with him. (a  couple of Redskins tickets a season never hurt either). We HAVE to do it right BECAUSE there is no one qualified to inspect the work.

Turn it on, see if it works. If it doesn't, take it up with the GC. If it were me, at a minimum I would want it piped in iron so as to prevent any future leaks due to expansion / contraction.

Rob

Kudos

@ July 11, 2014 4:16 AM in Icesailor are you there?

Kudos to Burnham for stepping up to the plate for our veterans. I wish I were closer to give you a hand John.

On the water service side, find a vet in the department who is sympathetic / patriotic. It's a shame, but sometimes it's worth playing on peoples emotions to do good. Anything to help. 

Rob

Actually

@ July 11, 2014 3:19 AM in Getting into mod/con business

Actually, your GPVX was designed to replace the woefully poor Apollo water heater design. They were used in cheap condos and small houses to operate with an air handler. I have replaced a ton of them. They are not made to last, they are made to satisfy the warranty period. Period! If you were to post the costs of all the parts and pieces of the scabbed together system, I can assure you that a Navian CH-180 will be less expensive or at least even. The biggest cost savings is in the labor needed for installation. I am just using the Navian as the least expensive combi that I know of as an example, for a few dollars more you can improve from there. Are you doing the installation yourself?

As to the "critical error" you told me I had made in a previous post, the water heater WILL scale up quickly due to the fact that it will be running MUCH more WITHOUT make up water, the dip tube in a water heater flushes the bottom (a bit) as you use hot water. The scale will bake on the bottom of the tank, not to mention the flue gas condensation eroding it from within. I just find it hard to believe that a mechanical engineer would do this. (actually, now that I think about it, I'm not surprised)

As well, you are not doing the same thing as Hot Rod is, you are doing the complete opposite. His boiler is a closed loop and his domestic goes through the flat plate. If he did it in the manor you are the heat exchanger would foul up quicker than you could whistle Dixie.

Rob

Right

@ July 10, 2014 3:56 PM in Getting into mod/con business

Once again BC, you are right. Nobody has ever thought about using a water heater as a heat source before. You should patent your idea! You will show us! You will have the last laugh! Dr. Frankenstein would be proud.

Humbly,
Rob

Wow

@ July 10, 2014 1:47 PM in Can I add hydronic furnace to steam system with IWH?

Jamie that last sentence was a real tongue twister. Can you say that three times in a row quickly.  :)

Rob

Geo Loop

@ July 10, 2014 1:39 PM in Radiant cooling

The only way to find out is to pump water through it and see. I would use a 50 gallon drum and circulate the water to see what temp you can maintain. There is no point in going further until you know what you are working with. They could have damaged the loop when filling in the pond. (and pressure test as well).

Rob

One other thing

@ July 10, 2014 1:31 PM in Icesailor are you there?

One other thing to check is the shower heads themselves, are they low flow? Three showers at once is a hell of allot of volume to be putting out of a 3/4" pipe. I hope they have one hell of a water heater too. Check out the usual suspects as Ice and Steamhead have said but know that it could just be that they are overtaxing the system.

Also, if there are any existing galvanized pipes they do tend to block up with rust and crud.

Good Luck and take care of our Vets,
Rob

NRTRob

@ July 10, 2014 1:02 PM in New Radiant System

I was wondering why he stopped posting, any idea where he is or what he is doing?

Price

@ July 10, 2014 12:33 PM in Getting into mod/con business

Obviously you are shopping for price. What people are saying is that once you start adding all of the components together, you will end up with a Frankenstein of a system that costs more to assemble than a Navian CH-180 that is actually designed to do domestic and space heating, carries the H stamp, has built in controls for outdoor air reset and DHW priority and will take up less space, satisfy your homeowners insurance requirments and be easier to install. Oh and don't forget the AFUE is higher than your water heater. 

Tubing

@ July 9, 2014 2:50 PM in Pipe connections to Condenser - Best Practices?

And I would lay money on the fact that he reamed the tubing as well. The only thing I can see is that he could have used one less ninety but the would make access to the service valve difficult.

Design

@ July 9, 2014 1:58 PM in New Radiant System

Try contacting Rob at Northeast Radiant Technologies (it's not me). He is very good at what you are trying to do. Most people here will agree with me.

http://nrtradiant.com/

Rob

Consider

@ July 8, 2014 1:58 PM in Getting into mod/con business

This debate is proceeding from a gentleman who believes that using a water heater with a flat plate HE and a stainless pump for his heat and domestic hot water is the best way to go because a modcon or even a cast iron or steel boiler would be a rip-off. Who needs an H-Stamp? Boilers were only created to rip of the consumer! It's not like that continuously running water heater will scale up at the bottom plummeting the efficiency because of the constant fresh make up water. He's an engineer, he knows best! Why don't you guys just accept that he is smarter than everyone else? I do.  :0)

To the original poster. Yes, there is a market for modcon's. Just make sure to do your research. Find a wholesaler and rep firm that are good to deal with and get the technical training. If properly maintained they will pay for themselves and then some. Just get comfortable with the the product. I had a rep take me out to a couple of light commercial jobs to see the installations to get and idea of the different scenarios (they were just boiler rooms that he had access to). Those were the days of the Pulse combustion boilers. I'm glad the industry has worked out the bugs :) 

Good luck, do your homework and you will do well.

Rob

JMHO,
Rob

Interesting

@ July 8, 2014 12:36 PM in What do you think of this new product?

Interesting, I doubt most American consumers would have the patience or know-how to read the instructions (even if they were in English) and operate. Even my wife knows how to use a plunger. If the plunger doesn't get it I turn to the Ridgid extendable closet auger.

As well, if the pressure did not clear the blockage the black water would push up into the tank.

No Bueno


JMHO,
Rob

Snowmelt Wow!

@ July 1, 2014 10:38 AM in Converting Oil to Gas

I'm more worried about my boiler putting out "carbon monoxide". If I could capture carbon dioxide I would use it for my beer tap. That stuffs not cheap!

If I had 140 degree flue gas on an atmospheric I would lock out the appliance! There is something way wrong!

A conversion burner with a liner will be much less expensive than a ModCon (budget was an issue with the original poster). A nine year old Weil will hopefully last another twenty years. The OP said they will be there another 3 to 4 years. In my humble opinion a ModCon would not pay for itself. If they want outdoor reset an I-valve can be installed.

And you throw the word cheap around wayyy too much. There is a differance between frugal and cheap.

Rob

One other

@ July 1, 2014 9:56 AM in Need to replace big old galvanized pipe with pex

One other reason to do the math is that one inch PEX does have a smaller ID but the fittings have an even smaller ID! Don't go on with your project on a wing and a prayer. Better to do the footwork beforehand and KNOW that you are right. There are many assumptions being thrown out here, but assumptions are like opinions which are like ass****'s. Everybodys got one. Do it once, do it right.

Rob 

Agree

@ July 1, 2014 9:26 AM in Converting Oil to Gas

I agree with most of what Captainco said. A conversion burner on a boiler that young is the way go. You do need to have the chimney inspected by a qualified chimney tech and it probably will need to be re-lined. You will probably recoup the cost over oil in a year or two.

And as you stated earlier, it is definitely a selling feature.


Rob

Still?

@ July 1, 2014 8:51 AM in Poor radiant floor hydronic installation

From the look of the existing work, I still have questions.

Is it O2 barrier tubing?

Are there remote manifolds and can you get pictures? (from the look of the install I am worried that it is just one long loop for each zone).

Is this a BIG builder touting green construction or a custom builder. I don't need a name, it's just a question.

Paul Pollets of "Advanced Radiant Technologies" is in Seattle and can fix the system I.E. sawzawl surgury. I would highly recomend talking to him. No contractor wants to get involved in any litigation. That is why I recomended getting the builder to knock off a few grand so that you may get it repiped properly. It would only be a day or two's work (if the rest of the system doesn't look like the boiler room).

JMHO,

Rob 
 

Pictures

@ July 1, 2014 7:46 AM in New gas boiler sizing

Please post some photos of the boiler and near boiler piping as well as some photos of the home so that we may get an idea of what you are working with.

Rob

I'm Glad

@ June 29, 2014 3:59 PM in Poor radiant floor hydronic installation

I'm glad that you showed back up. If you have not closed on the home you still have power. I personally would not settle for that mess unless I planned on having it redone anyway.

Are there remote manifolds that the mains go to?
Are the relief valves tied together like it looks in the photographs?
Has it passed final inspection?
What did the rest of the piping look like and what type of system is it i.e. staple-up, over-pour, in slab?
Is it O2 barrier tubing on the heating side?
How large is the home? 

It is tough to follow the mess of piping in the photographs. I would see if you can get a few thousand knocked off the purchase price and get someone in there who knows what they are doing after settlement. I would not want the person who did that to come anywhere near the home ever again, much less to "fix" it. Can you get more photos of the manifolds, plumbing et al? Please keep us posted as to how it goes. Your install should look something like the second photo Snowmelt posted above (in the first photo the install is not complete).

Rob 
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