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Joined on June 4, 2011

Last Post on August 30, 2014

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Gas meter

@ August 6, 2014 4:29 PM in Burner Conversion Question - Weil-McLain P-SG0-3

Two reasons, access and liability.


@ August 6, 2014 3:34 PM in How would you....? (daycare mixing)

I would use both 1017 at the source and 1070 mixing valves on the fixtures. If the owners want to turn up the temp on certain fixtures that is their responsibility. You need to cover your butt in this litigious society we live in. Explain to the owners that the added expense is covering their butt as well.

See this link for info:



@ August 6, 2014 2:25 PM in Survey


Off topic

@ August 6, 2014 1:01 PM in Brazing without nitrogen?!

Somehow this thread got off topic, however, since we are now talking about double / inverted flares, if I have to use a CCST product for gas I use TracPipe as the fitting creates a double flare when tightened. It also dosn't require additional bonding per the manufacturers instructions.


I may be wrong

@ August 3, 2014 7:39 PM in Condensing cast iron?

I may be wrong but I seem to remember something about siliconized cast iron being used and that helps with the corrosion issues? Once again, I may be wrong but it seems to ring a bell in my noggin. I don't see anything in the product literature though.



@ August 3, 2014 5:02 PM in Survey

How do you do your estimates / quotes for system replacements?

Do you itemize the materials?

Do you do a detailed heat-loss and provide it to the Customer?

Do you do a rough estimate on the heat-loss and do the detailed one when the contract is signed?

Do you give the estimate on the first visit or do you mail / e-mail it later and if later what is your turnaround time?

Do you give options such as cast iron, mod-con, zoning?

Do you base your estimates on the type of car in the driveway?

Do you do your estimates based on what the customer wants or what YOU think they need?

How much time do spend typically on an estimate for a typical 3000sft two zone home (replacement)?

I am just wondering how others do it



@ August 3, 2014 4:34 PM in Trouble Reconnecting a Water Softener

Petroleum based products are not to be used with rubber. They will make the o-ring swell and deteriorate.



@ August 3, 2014 3:47 PM in Trouble Reconnecting a Water Softener

Use some good silicone faucet grease on the o-ring and push the fitting straight down. Don't have it cocked like it is in the picture. If you do not have access to faucet grease you can just use a liquid dish soap.



@ August 2, 2014 2:18 PM in Condensing cast iron?

I remember the rAY thread from a few years ago, but has anything come from the CI condensing technology? I can't find anything on the web about the rAY since 2011. It's not on Mestek's website.

How have the KN's been holding up?

Condensing cast iron?

@ August 2, 2014 10:31 AM in Condensing cast iron?

How does the Hydrotherm KN series boiler manage to provide high efficiency coupled with cast iron? Granted, it is a manufacturers claim, but up to 99%efficient? Is it a disposable unit, glean the efficiency while it rots out?

I would love a high efficiency cast iron residential unit. How do they do it?



@ August 1, 2014 4:04 PM in Flush Valve

That is what I am looking for. Now my only problem is figuring out out if there is any way to connect it to a Sloan stop and a 3/4" tailpiece. If not, is there any type of 3/4" tamper-proof angle stop? How do I connect to a 3/4" tailpiece / spud?



@ July 31, 2014 3:57 PM in Near boiler piping issue?

Do you know when the last time it worked normally was? If there are records, sometimes it is easier to work from the back to the front. When did it work last and what did the last knucklehead do to it?

Flush Valve

@ July 31, 2014 2:27 PM in Flush Valve

I have customer with a gas station that has a shallow well with a jet pump and awful water quality. He refuses to add a filter and water treatment system. I can't get the flushometer on the urinal to keep working (it keeps getting blocked in the orifice of the diaphragm). I am trying to find one of the old style units that has just a spring loaded twist handle. My suppliers just look at me with a blank stare. Any help would be appreciated.



Stupid Questions

@ July 31, 2014 1:39 PM in Near boiler piping issue?

I have a couple of stupid questions. Did the system ever work correctly? If the answer is yes, what's changed?


@ July 31, 2014 1:16 PM in Burner Conversion Question - Weil-McLain P-SG0-3

What Charlie said. If the boiler is sized correctly I would re-use it. You still need to have it completely re-piped. It may heat your home, however once it is re-piped and correctly vented you WILL notice how much better and less expensively it heats your home, oil or gas.

Make sure that you get some proper support on the gas meter rack and gas piping.



@ July 31, 2014 12:40 PM in Another Steam Boiler Sizing Concern

Do you know what the in home gas piping sizes and attached loads are? I can give you an ESTIMATE to see if the piping will work. Usually the piping to the house is not the problem, it's the piping in the home that needs up-sizing (if it needs up-sizing at all).



@ July 29, 2014 5:02 PM in Copper fitting friction loss

I had to hook up an icemaker at my inlaws and went to the big orange store for some copper tubing. This stuff must have been type Z. I have never seen a peice of copper so thin. Needless to say, I stayed untill Monday and went to the supply house.


Thermal Bypass

@ July 29, 2014 4:49 PM in Advice on adding zones

You really need to install a bypass valve to protect you boiler from condensing. If your radiators are not getting hot, it probably means that the boiler is in condensing mode most of the time. A sure way to kill a boiler.

See the link:

I wasn't

@ July 29, 2014 4:26 PM in Brazing without nitrogen?!

I wasn't disagreeing with the nitrogen brazing issue (I don't do A/C except my own and only with the help of a friend who DOES do A/C). I do however braze piping for plumbing work and just use oxy/acet. I don't have to worry about compressors, I just unscrew aerators. However allot of companies don't care. The customer pays for the filter, when the compressor does give up the ghost they are going to call the guy who's sticker is on the unit, them. Then they will sell them a whole new system. Once again, the almighty dollar wins. Unfortunately it is the mantra of allot of service companies.



@ July 29, 2014 4:00 PM in r85 rannai problem

I agree with everything that Jack said. The only thing that I would add is that allot of these units are sold as "instantaneous" water heaters. That is simply wrong. The units are "tankless" water heaters. The energy savings is in not maintaining a tank of hot water while you are not using it. If you had a tank of hot water in the same location as the Rinnai units it would take about the same amount of time to get hot water at the fixture (probably a few seconds less due to the pressure drop through the tankless"s heat exchanger). However you would still use the same amount of water while waiting for it. Follow jacks instructions, try shutting off one unit then the other and see if there is any improvement. You could always relocate one of the units closer to the furthest fixtures or install a recirculation loop. I've had one in my home for about ten years (different brand but same animal) and have never had a problem. I located it right under the area where my baths are and don't have to wait more than twenty seconds. the kitchen takes about a minute as it is on the other end of the house. I wonder if you may have water pressure issues? As the units are on the outside of your home I assume you are in a mild climate. Some homes only have a 1/2" water line supplying their home in some desert environs. That could definitely slow down the hot water delivery.




@ July 29, 2014 3:05 PM in Brazing without nitrogen?!

Nitrogen costs more than O2. End of story. I guess that's why god invented filters.

I have a friend who owns a bar and has a long draw beer tap system. He has to use a nitrogen CO2 mixture to keep the beer from foaming (and wasting the nectar of the gods). It costs about twice what straight CO2 does, however that's still cheaper than wasting the beer. The almighty dollar wins every time.


It seems

@ July 29, 2014 2:39 PM in Time for a new oil boiler?

It seems like there are just too many ways for the water to go. You can't trust water, it will allways flow to the last place you want it to. I would simply pipe both boilers with closley spaced tees and fire based off of the aquastats. I agree that at a minimum I would put a circ on the oil boiler though.

I would just go with the closley spaced tees and a circ on each boiler and be done with it.  

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