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Hap_Hazzard

Hap_Hazzard

Joined on July 25, 2011

Last Post on July 21, 2014

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I wouldn't powder-coat it.

@ July 21, 2014 7:53 PM in Radiator re-finishing

Powder coating tends to flake off if flexed, and it tends to fail along sharp edges too. I don't have anything specific to recommend, but look for something that covers well with a thin coat. The thicker the paint, the more likely it will crack. And make sure the surface is immaculately clean and prepped according to the instructions. Since this surface isn't in direct contact with the steam, it probably doesn't need to be a high heat paint.

A little inspiration

@ July 16, 2014 8:12 PM in radiator cover box design question

http://www.hudsoncabinetrydesign.com/galleries/radiator-cover-galleries

Some of these are better than others, but they all look fairly easy to build.

I'd lean towards the bronze valves, but it really depends on the alloy.

@ June 29, 2014 12:59 PM in Radiator Valves

I'm not a pro, but I've replaced a few valves.

The terms brass and bronze are used almost interchangeably, and they don't tell you much about the composition of a particular alloy. Unfortunately, they usually don't get more specific than that, so you kind of have to hope they used a good, corrosion-resistant alloy. There is a big trade-off between corrosion-resistance and machinability, which makes manufacturing corrosion-resistant valves more expensive, so you'd expect them to cost more, but pricing reflects factors other than cost, so caveat emptor.

One thing I noticed immediately was that every new valve I looked at, in 1", 1 1/4" and 1 1/2", had a smaller throat size than the valve I was replacing, by about a pipe size. Whenever possible I used the next size larger valve by removing the bushing from the radiator and placing it under the valve. This is only possible if the radiator has a bushing, of course, and where it's possible to either use a shorter pipe nipple or raise the radiator by the distance added by the bushing. Not always easy, if even possible, but worth a shot if the supply pipe size is barely--or not even--adequate for the radiator's EDR.

High-temp paint

@ June 27, 2014 9:26 PM in Radiator re-finishing

Most paints say not to use them on surfaces that are regularly heated to 200°F. That's a steam radiator. Only paints designated "high temp" or "high heat" are intended for applications where the temperature can exceed 200°F. If it doesn't say it, it's not.

Some paints become fluid at 200°F and can stick to anything that comes in contact with them. More often they just give off volatile gases. The concentration of these gases may not be harmful, but it sure smells bad. Over time the loss of these volatile components causes the paint to shrink and become brittle, so it loses its ability to expand and contract with the substrate, and it will begin to crack and flake off.

The trouble with tees

@ June 19, 2014 7:50 PM in Adding a Radiator to an existing one pipe steam system

is that the pipes connected to both ends can't slant down towards the main, so your condensate won't be able to return quickly enough to get out of the way of the steam. Also, you'd be connecting two radiators to supply piping that was only intended for one.

Oh, you wanna use BOTH hands?

@ June 17, 2014 8:41 PM in Main Vent

If you're going to use a sledge, let's make it more interesting. We'll connect a couple sections of pipe, hang it over your head, and see if you can break it without damaging the pipes (or anything else that might be in the area if it were in a typical basement).

I'll watch.

@ June 17, 2014 8:33 PM in Main Vent

I'll buy a new cast iron fitting and let you use my best hammer (Mjölnir), and I'll bet you a sixpack of Sweet Baby Jesus you can't break it.

Ward

@ June 17, 2014 8:26 PM in Main Vent

Ward has a credit application on their website. :-D

Have you ever had to?

@ June 17, 2014 8:24 PM in Main Vent

I can't imagine myself shattering a piece of cast iron on purpose. I suppose if I had to I could cut through a malleable fitting with a reciprocating saw, but I'd rather cut the pipe.

If you really had to you could probably make a malleable fitting shatter if you chilled it with liquid nitrogen. You do keep a bottle of that stuff handy, don't you? :-)

Light cutting oil or a gel

@ June 17, 2014 8:00 PM in Main Vent

The thicker and stickier the better. Not only will it not run into the pipe, but it will probably keep most of your chips from falling inside--not that that's a big concern here.

You might see if you can pick up one of those lube sticks they make for bandsaws.

Get with the program, dude!

@ June 17, 2014 7:54 PM in Main Vent

I don't see what you have against malleable. They're much more forgiving of inexperienced weekend warriors like us, and frankly, I don't really get why the pros like them. Maybe they aren't as strong as the cast fittings, but they'll outlast any pipe you screw them onto. They'll probably outlast you and me too.

I'd vote for the Megaloc and tape.

@ June 17, 2014 7:43 PM in Oh look what I found in my closet

That's what a lot of the pros here use, and while I'm pretty happy with my teflon pipe joint compound, they seem to know what they're doing. :-)

I'm sure they make both kinds.

@ June 17, 2014 7:34 PM in Main Vent

I think the rule of thumb is if it has teeth marks from pipe wrenches it's malleable; if it doesn't it hasn't been used yet. :-)

Cast iron might chip, but it's just as likely to take a tooth off the wrench jaw.

Another difference is, if you're screwing a street fitting into a female fitting, you can turn the malleable fittings a little after they get tight to line them up, but cast iron will stop dead. If you force it it'll break.

Also, I think unions are always malleable.

He must've been pulling your leg.

@ June 17, 2014 7:04 PM in Main Vent

Grey cast iron does tend to be brittle, but most of the fittings you see these days are malleable, which is annealed white iron. Both contain a lot of carbon and silicon in large crystals that are very abrasive.

What were you doing in there?

@ June 17, 2014 6:55 PM in Oh look what I found in my closet

I thought you were out of the closet. :-D

Okay, I'm sorry. I've been biting my tongue for almost a week now. I just couldn't take it anymore.

I'd use oil.

@ June 17, 2014 6:30 PM in Main Vent

Especially on a fitting. Cast iron is high in carbon and it's brutal on drill bits. Most of it will come out with the chips, which, if you use the right feed pressure, will be two long spirals. I'd also oil the tap. If you're drilling into pipe to weld on an olet, all the oil's going to burn off anyway.

Density

@ June 9, 2014 5:54 PM in Wife HATES old steam radiators. Don't care for covers. Alternatives?

When they talk about density in flooring materials they're talking about stone, tile, concrete, not masonite. A good rule of thumb would be, "does it float?" Physical compactness of lighter materials actually improves transparency to infrared. Consider what happens to fiberglass insulation if it's compressed, or compare the insulating qualities of styrofoam and a sheet of polystyrene.

Okay, there is some radiation

@ June 8, 2014 11:00 AM in Wife HATES old steam radiators. Don't care for covers. Alternatives?

But you don't need an opening in the front of the cabinet to let radiant heat through. In fact, a metal grille, which you often see, probably blocks more than it lets through. Radiant heat is infra-red. It goes right through a thin sheet of plywood or masonite, especially if it's very dark in color. But really the majority of the heat radiators provide to your living space, assuming you don't have poorly designed radiator covers, is from convection.

The reason radiators are better than convectors or baseboards is mass. A big chunk of hot cast iron keeps you warm a lot longer than a thin pipe with sheet-metal fins on it.

I cut louvers in the tops of mine.

@ June 8, 2014 10:54 AM in Wife HATES old steam radiators. Don't care for covers. Alternatives?

I had a bunch of typical home-made radiator covers in my house that had solid tops, grilles on the fronts, and went all the way to the floor, so I cut louvers in the tops, made a vent between the top and the front, cut out an opening at the bottom, and stapled a sheet of masonite to the inside to block any air currents from entering through the grilles.

Show the pictures

@ June 8, 2014 10:48 AM in Wife HATES old steam radiators. Don't care for covers. Alternatives?

Print some pictures that look similar to what you need and show them to some local cabinetmakers. Emphasize the importance of creating a "chimney effect."

By the way, in the picture you posted, those vertical slots on the front do absolutely nothing, aside from giving you a glimpse of the radiator inside. They may even disrupt the convective currents. The only features that matter are the slot at the top and that nice, big opening at the bottom.

Additions

@ June 8, 2014 10:27 AM in Wife HATES old steam radiators. Don't care for covers. Alternatives?

One "trick" that contractors with no steam knowledge like to use is to add on radiators by using the fittings where the main vents were to connect a radiator take-off. Apart from usually being to small for the connected radiation, they also get rid of the main vents. When they find the steam no longer reaching the radiators until the boiler cycles on pressure, they jack up the pressuretrol to force it. If you can't find your main vents, that's the first thing you need to get fixed, and this will improve things dramatically.

Radiator Covers

@ June 8, 2014 8:27 AM in Wife HATES old steam radiators. Don't care for covers. Alternatives?

Radiator covers can be made to look good without lowering the effective radiation. In fact, the enclosures designed for convectors are part of the reason they can get so much EDR out of such small units.

The best enclosure designs have vents or grilles at the top and an opening at the bottom so the cold air enters at the bottom, rises past the hot surface, and flows out into the room at the top. Since the front is closed, they're essentially toddler-proof.

Most radiator covers I've seen are built on the misconception that radiators radiate heat. They don't. They heat by convection. The trick is to bring as much room air in contact with the heated surfaces as possible, and use the convective current to circulate the room air.

I found some good examples online at http://www.hudsoncabinetrydesign.com/galleries/radiator-cover-galleries. I'm not making an endorsement here; I've never done business with this company, haven't even looked at their prices or where they're located; I'm just saying that the cabinets appear to show an understanding of how radiators work, and they probably don't look like what you think of when you picture a radiator cover.
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