Joined on August 3, 2011
Last Post on June 21, 2013
@ June 21, 2013 12:10 PM in Your thoughts on using.....1 1/2" pump flanges face to face with flat gaskets instead of unions or threaded fittings. I am building a different manifold setup on my near boiler piping and the thought occurred as an easier and more serviceable connection. Regular 4 bolt flanges would seem a little overkill and spendy...I already have the extra pump flanges, just wondering if the flat gasket are as dependable as a groove o-ring seal like on pump mounts.
I've never seen an example of this being done and am hoping some of you can gently explain why :)
@ May 20, 2013 2:55 PM in low water cut-offI want to install a LWCO (none on it now) on my Weil Mclain CGa spark piloted boiler, but unsure as to using a 24v or 120v type. What would I need to be considering to decide which one to order? Any brand recommendation?
@ August 28, 2012 10:47 AM in Baseboard tee installand to be truthful, they were only using the brass versions in the display. My thought after studying the setup was they could be a great solution to problems that arise during repair, remodel and retrofit situations where soldering is tough to accomplish. On the other hand, wonder what a few hundred expansion cycles does to their gripping fingers as a copper line advance and retreats within the fitting.......maybe has no effect on the actual seal, so not a problem. Interesting
@ August 27, 2012 7:26 PM in Baseboard tee installThe local Menards store has a hydronic panel display board made up using all Watts "quick connect fittings". They are described as in the wall rated , and the brass version as 80psi @ 240 Degrees. Anyone had any experience with these in a heating application ?
@ August 22, 2012 7:21 AM in Baseboard tee installIn a baseboard loop, what is the proper way to install a venting tee ? Should it be at the up or down flow position of the rise ? Or both ? Or does it matter ?
@ January 2, 2012 2:49 PM in pumping away ?Than to follow the directions :> Thanks Gordy
@ January 2, 2012 11:46 AM in pumping away ?http://s14.postimage.org/i3lp338s1/CGa_install_diagram.jpg
@ January 2, 2012 11:41 AM in pumping away ?I'll try a different way of posting diagram
@ January 2, 2012 11:33 AM in pumping away ?So would this be considered pumping away ?....or would the exp. tank be better off between supply and circulators ?
@ December 27, 2011 8:16 PM in Still getting some circulation noise.The temp difference I'm using is the boiler set point (180), minus what I'm reading with some strap on gauges at the loop returns, 12" before they combine at the boiler return.
Maybe not an accurate enough method ?
@ December 27, 2011 10:55 AM in Still getting some circulation noise.forgot to mention....the zone with the most noise is the one with the down direction pump position. The noise level doesn't seem to change much with both zones circulating
@ December 27, 2011 10:50 AM in Still getting some circulation noise.The green taco doesn't pump to the xpan tank....just looks that way. But it is circulating in down direction. Didn't think it was an issue as the old setup with he 100 series were similar.
The 35 degree drop seems to change to a 30 drop later in the cycle as the room temps rise toward thermostat settings. Both zones stay within 3-5 degrees of return temp tho, even with the smaller pump on the one zone.
I probably should have gone deeper into pump sizing than I did, but thought the series 100's and 007's were pretty close. Maybe should have kept the old B&G's in hindsight, but the motor's were original 50 yr's old....think I changed the pumps maybe 20 years ago.
I made no changes to system other than near boiler piping on the new boiler. The new boiler is a series 3, a little smaller than the old one, but a couple notches more efficient.
Everything is working Ok and we seem to have plenty of heat so far, so I guess other than changing the one zone back to the 007, I'll let it go for this season. Maybe the worst that would happen is burning up a pump if they are in fact undersized. Another thing on the pump sizing was not finding any information on what the baseboard sections output were. They have aluminum fins but no brand name I could find. I had to assume they matched the heat load requirements but at what volume?
So based on what I've learned here I should :
-recheck pump sizing
-change pump position and clean up pump discharge piping . Would increasing size of elbow at discharge help that, or does it require the 12x pipe diameter straight run no matter what ?
@ December 26, 2011 9:25 PM in Still getting some circulation noise.I've got one zone @142' with 26 fittings, and the other is 134' with 32 fittings. The taco 007 came with the boiler package so I bought another and zoned with the circulators same way the old boiler was plumbed. Changing the one zone to a 006 pump didn't seem to change the noise or the temp drop on that zone much....still around 35 degrees.
The location of the xpan tank and circulators are pretty much as shown in the Weil-Mclain install manual diagram for high temp, circulator zoned application .
It is piped tighter than than the old system (B&G 100's) was as you noted, and if that is answer to the noise problem I'll find a way to spread it out even though I haven't a lot of room to work with.
@ December 26, 2011 8:10 PM in Still getting some circulation noise.So you're saying the location of the expansion tank is wrong on the return, or the pipe size is wrong connecting it ? And the elbows at pump discharge not kosher ?
Both zones are baseboard, 3/4 in. copper lines. There is only 2 returns and the other is an auto fill supply.
@ December 26, 2011 5:43 PM in Still getting some circulation noise.If anyone would take a look and see if I've made some basic errors in near boiler piping that would cause noise to radiate thru my baseboard zones. At first I thought I had oversized the pumps and noise was from excess volume, so I changed one zone pump, these are pump controlled zones, from a 007 f5 to a 006 f4 taco. Doesn't seem to have made any difference....I've bled system every way I can think of and even added an extra auto air vent at the very top of the zones, still no help.
Photos @ http://postimage.org/gallery/6asgth7y/
@ September 13, 2011 7:06 PM in Velocity noise.....was included with the boiler package and the efficiency specs seemed close enough to the old B & G 100's that had worked pretty well for 50 yrs.. I guess I figgered it was worth a try for the price of another 007.......The expansion tank is on the return side, so that doesn't explain it. With the old system, both zones were returned and combined to a 3/4 t back to boiler, so I guess they were choked down there as well. I'll let it run with the balance valves half throttle and see what kind of temp drop I'm getting and then decide how much noise I can live with. Maybe the air will work itself out better at the slower flow also.....
@ September 13, 2011 8:02 AM in Velocity noise.....or at least I think it's velocity noise. I'm installing a replacement cold start boiler. The new boiler was shipped with a Taco 007 pump, and as I have two baseboard circulator controlled loops, I bought another 007 to use on the second zone. I kept the supply size at 1 1/4 in. to the pumps. The pump discharge is 3/4 in. , as is the zone piping. At the boiler return, each zone goes to 1 in. and then back to 1 1/4 at boiler. I didn't figure head loss on zones, but they should be fairly well matched as one one is 315' and the other 275'.
I haven't fired the boiler yet, but circulating the system and bleeding air, I'm getting a lot of rushing noise at the pumps. I don't think it's an air problem as I have bled and bled.....When I choke each zone down with the return side balance valves, about 40%, the noise pretty much clears up. Is this an acceptable way to run, or am I going to have premature pump failures? If I do, what size Taco pumps would you replace the 007's with ? I'm too close to heating season to change any piping if I can get away with what I have for this season anyway.......Thanks for the help.
@ August 30, 2011 11:58 PM in zoning with circulatorsI'm replacing my old boiler with a Wiel-McClain CGa-3, spark ignition
model. The boiler came with a Taco 007-f5 circulator. I bought an
additional pump, same model, thinking I would control my two baseboard
loops with the pumps same as my old set up. Now I see that the new
boiler control board has only one thermostat input and one circulator
output. Can someone walk me though how to wire the thermostats and some
external relays to power the pumps and keep it integrated with the
I've attached pdf of control board.....or at least I tried to.
@ August 7, 2011 8:00 PM in balance valvesIn my series loop baseboard system (2 loops), are manual balance valves a good idea ? Where should they be located ? The original positions were right at the discharge of each pump.
@ August 3, 2011 3:22 PM in baseboard loop design helpI'm not adding indirect now but would plumb a connection for future. The boiler is a atmospheric vented NG (wiel-mclaine cga3) spark ignition. I debated long and hard about a mod-con, even went to triangle tube 2 day installer school. I guess the deciding factor other than at least twice the money and payback period, was being able to condense a good share of the time with the higher temps required for a comfortable radiant baseboard system that is in place. If it was a radiant floor system I would have done the mod-con for sure. Anyway, it's a done deal as the boiler is ordered.
I wouldn't say the old didn't have it's problems with some noise and holding pressure...it was 50 yrs. old and had the old style no badder expansion tank and no air separator of any kind. Even with that I probably would have continued to nurse it along had it not developed a CO leak at the masonry vent/tubes junction.
The old one is already torn out so can't help with pictures. It was pretty simply tho....just two bell gossett (100 series) pumps in series from the boiler , each one feeding a separate zone via separate thermostats. One zone for upstairs and one for down.
Upstairs zone is 142' 3/4 copper with 36' total finned emitters. Downstairs zone 134' total 3/4 copper with 21' emitters. I'm going to add about 4' emitter to this level while I'm at it.
The home has a lot of glass area for its sq. footage and a large masonary fireplace that we don't use anymore (sealed off the firebox) so used the higher heat loss figures of the ones I calculated....... the next step down in boiler size seemed a little risky with it not modulating.
So you guy's are thinking other than the high/low settings, just plumb the zones as they have always been with a pump on each zone ? The old piping had balance valves on each return but were never set anywhere but wide open. I guess I would use some temp gauges this time try balancing zones a little. And an autofill setup with a good air seperator. Other than that no fancy multi-speeds or zone valves ?
@ August 3, 2011 10:39 AM in baseboard loop design helpI'm replacing the boiler in my home and trying to decide whether to make any changes in the circulator/zone plumbing. Replacement boiler is non condensing 70k in, 59k out. The original design is a simple radiant baseboard, 2 zone, 2 circulator, series loops which seems to work just fine, but maybe a primary/secondary or one circulator with zone valves would be an improvement ? It's seems to be hard to find info on the advantages and disadvantages that match my situation.
This is a small 1400 sq.ft. two level (700 up and 700 dn) home. The zones are divided in that way also. My heat load calculations show don't show a lot of difference in heat loss in the 2 zones. Any thoughts on how best to plumb this ? Would a multispeed circulator with series loops and zone valves be any better as there is some difference in head between zones ?