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The Wall
Gerry Alder

Gerry Alder

Joined on November 24, 2011

Last Post on October 23, 2012

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This Boiler feature is it not supposed to condense.

@ October 23, 2012 8:41 AM in Buffer tank and Alpha

This boiler can accept any return temperature down to 55°f and it does not condense . It has boiler protection built in. The secondary pump runs the entire time you have a call for heat and the boiler pump inside the boiler runs minimum speed injecting heat to the built in secondary loop until boiler is 160°f hot then boiler pump runs normal . Pretty neat feature on this RV5 cast iron boiler.


@ October 21, 2012 2:09 AM in Lochinvar Knight Wall Mount Cleaning

Could just PH test condensate before and after the neutralizer to see how well its working.
I am gonna start testing condensate PH now that you stirred the thought in me to see how well old neutralizers work . One problem in this area the neutralizers rarely get installed.

Nice paint jobs

@ October 21, 2012 1:31 AM in DrPeppers still at it

Great systems too . I am no painter, ask my bride. But is it much trouble to prep and paint your iron pipes?
Because that is over the top great lookin!

Dirt separators

@ October 21, 2012 1:05 AM in dirt in heating system

Don't reinvent the strainer just go with a dirt separator like dirtcal by Caleffi or spirovent also makes a good dirt separator, I prefer these over a simple wye strainer, then you could remove the tiny screen from the Takagi and be done with it.

redundancy on air vent

@ October 21, 2012 12:46 AM in Buffer tank and Alpha

No need to have an air separator on the system loop if you use a Boiler Buddy you put a cheap vent on top center of Boiler Buddy Buffer tank and definitely use all four ports to get full use of this buffer tank. The Boiler Buddy has it all in one as hydraulic separator buffering and air / dirt separation. Can you tell I am a huge fan of these!

Next issue is to use the outdoor reset control with an injection pump and put the injection pump on the supply between boiler and buffer tank . Dont fret about the system supply temperature it will be fine.

Ok in this certain case with the RV 5 boiler since it has its own primary pump for boiler protection and its high mass cast iron boiler you could argue not to even use a buffer tank eliminate it and just do the two closely spaced tees injection to system loop. If your injection control is smart (like tekmar) you could set an auto Diferential and it helps reduce short cycling. I really love buffer tanks and they have a justified use on copperfin and low mass boilers. So you choose if you want to use it here. You could go all out and do the math to see how much a buffer tank helps in cycling.

One quick TIP put your own temperature and pressure gauge on the supply pipe cause the one inside the boiler is annoyingly hard to see.

Utah DEQ proposed a BAN on Outdoor Wood Fired Boilers

@ August 21, 2012 11:06 AM in Utah DEQ proposed a BAN on Outdoor Wood Fired Boilers

That is one of the viable arguments . There is already a stringent EPA program in place. The EPA states that the new Phase 2 Qualified appliances are 90% cleaner than older conventional models.
The Utah DEQ has given little consideration to the newest state of art OWB's. Instead only an outright BAN on all OWB's is being pursued.

Is anybody both a boiler service technician and CWT?

@ August 21, 2012 10:20 AM in Is anybody both a boiler service technician and CWT?

I am considering becoming Certified Water Technologist CWT to expand my knowledge and opportunities.
Are there any of you boiler techs who are CWT's?or do you just leave it up to the chemical guy to sell chemical products and take care of the water quality .
The reason I am interested is a line of products named Endurosolve . These make sense to me and maybe an easier sell.

Utah DEQ proposed a BAN on Outdoor Wood Fired Boilers

@ August 21, 2012 9:41 AM in Utah DEQ proposed a BAN on Outdoor Wood Fired Boilers

Yup including gasifiers they don't define a gasifier as anything different . Anybody that does their homework are usually going to buy a gasifier for clean efficient burn.

Utah DEQ proposed a BAN on Outdoor Wood Fired Boilers

@ August 21, 2012 1:38 AM in Utah DEQ proposed a BAN on Outdoor Wood Fired Boilers

R307-208 The Utah DEQ has proposed a regulation that will prohibit (BAN) all new Outdoor Wood Boilers from being sold and installed in Utah. It also imposes unreasonable registration and opacity requirements for existing OWBs .

Oh this is quite upsetting, I don't own an Outdoor Wood Boiler and I don't have an unlimited supply of wood. Hey I do want my freedoms ! I would like to sell and Install these and perhaps choose to get an OWB for fun of it. Mostly I want my Freedom to choose!

The folks that typically own an OutDoor Wood Boiler are some of the happiest people I know because they have all the heat and hotwater they could ever want at a substantial savings on fuel. They take pride and joy in how they burn so not smoke , and neighbors or passers by wont notice that the OWB is even being used.

August 31st 2012 is the deadline for public comment.

disintegrated venturi on triangle

@ May 2, 2012 2:30 AM in Weird debris in Lochinvar HX

In reference to the venturi disintegration I too seen this before . It was on a Prestige that had been short cycling it had unbalanced side wall direct venting about 15 foot separation between intake and exhaust . So everytime the boiler goes in standby after a burn cycle there is warm humid acidic air rising up through combustion chamber through burner through fan and out gas venturi these plastic and aluminum components are susceptible to corrosion and eventually fails. This reverse air flow when boiler is in standby is pretty common occurance more or less when using side wall venting and when conditions are severe I see component failures. When venting is through the roof there is almost no problems .
There has been an evolution of improvements over the last several years on most manufacturers boilers dealing with this issue , to name some improvements I have seen are:
blowers underneath the combustion chamber
check valve in the exhaust
fans with stainless blades
long post purge fan cycle
intake air directly connected to venturi
gasket tight boiler cabinets
Typically one or two of these improvements can be applied to an existing boiler that has this back draft problem and component failures.
Pay attention and be aware of the possibilities.
The excuse of exhaust reciculating in to the intake is scripted from a manufacture. (They don't want to be responsible and will try to blame it on your vent terminations) Although it is a bad thing to have happen . Recirc causes poor combustion due to lack of O2 and in severe cases you would have loss of flame but I don't believe it would cause component failures like a venturi disintegrating . In a vent recirc condition the air is very diluted and should not cause any evidence of corrosion on boiler components.
I come to this conclusion based on my observations and experience as a Service Technician.
And to comment on the nice Lochinvar pic the debris in the combustion chamber looks normal to me. I been told its carbon (often described as coffee grounds)
but I can not explain this process very well.

Don't do it !

@ April 2, 2012 12:41 PM in disadvantages

I would not heat base board from any standard water heater. I would even hesitate to heat BB with a high temp high efficient water heater I know this has been done before and works with some limitations and I seen the jobs , and typically its a diy er or a plumbers own place who has done this . Just the idea of BB heating with a standard water heater is not what I would offer to any customer and there is no pride in doing so. Do it right and educate the customer or don't do it all.

I wish I knew computers well enough to help you.

@ April 2, 2012 12:16 PM in HTP dealer software fault history issue

I'm sure this is easy routine stuff for computer techies but I have found it difficult to setup HTP Programmer especially first time and sometimes later.( As I am a plumber who struggles with most computer stuff.) Certain tech. support guys at HTP have helped me in the past on new laptop first time setup . The HTP Programmer Setup instructions usually helps too . I only get the program from HTP website since I always had problems with copies not working.
Good luck.

water damaged connection boards

@ March 30, 2012 10:54 PM in New HTP install

Yup . I seen it too. A pump seal blew sprayed down most the room and of course damaged the connection board and the display board on a EL-399 . Sometimes bad things happen and leaks of one kind or another often occur in a mech. room . I guess if you expect leaks to happen some one may go the extra mile and protect vital sensitive components from water damage
How about a water proof boiler that may be a good selling point , who has one of those?
I seen a lot of tankless w.h.'s with dipped control boards and it seems to work cause every now and then I manage to get those wet (power off) and dry it off -no damage.
As for maint. I noticed more of the high temp giononni hx's lookin better (less coffee grounds) than the low temp condensing units. Not all follow that trend.
I am jealous, looks like a fun upgrade with more to come . good job.

HTP dealer software fault history issue

@ March 30, 2012 7:46 PM in HTP dealer software fault history issue

Anybody else experiencing this issue with fault history "read from file"? Or is it just my laptop? I routinely save the fault history and reset fault history table while servicing HTP boilers.
A small inconvenience I recently have on the most recent version 6.8 is trying to read the fault history files only in 926 the 925 works well. When I click fault history then click read from file choose a file name and open the fault history everything shows zeros , I thought the info was all lost.
I found a trick to open these fault history files. Here is how: first I have to actually connect a control board click fault history click read from controller, then I'm able to disconnect controller and read from any file like normal no problem . My laptop is Toshiba with windows 7.
I have checked with others locally but they don't save fault histories. I asked tech. support but no answers yet. I did uninstall version 6.7 before setup of version 6.8
One thing I missed having on the 6.7 version was the reset table button , well the 6.8 version has it fixed.
Any one else having this read from file issue? All zeros.

Did I miss it?

@ March 20, 2012 10:48 PM in I need your help please !!

How did you do?

I throw out the plug

@ March 6, 2012 9:52 PM in Expansion tank issues

The purpose of the plug inside the spirovent strainer is to slow the flow for when someone might do a fast fill like at startup it helps keep the vent from spitting water . Then later you run into problems like this one.

DW is much slower recovery than SW

@ March 6, 2012 1:39 AM in New Amtrol Boiler Mate running out of hot water

I could not find any performance chart comparing the the SW recovery to DW for Amtrol .
Anyhow I experienced another make in 80 gal DW it was 5 X slower recovery than the SW model that manufacturer printed it , so I was prepared and automatically compensated for a slow recovery by using the mixing valve and a small dif. below a 140* setpoint .
Since then I hesitate to ever sell another DW coil indirect water heater . They work ok I just dont have the patience to wait for one to recover.
Why not test it ? yes shut off your boiler run out all the Hot water out in the CH-41ZDW . Next turn on the boiler and time how long it takes to satisfy the tank . and observe the boiler if it stays in high fire or if it modulates down rather quickly because your just not getting all the heat out of the boiler and into the water heater.

Utahn visiting Detroit

@ March 4, 2012 10:53 AM in Utahn visiting Detroit in March 12th-16th

I am an active member of the church here in Utah and no passport . Me visiting Detroit is not a movie just my reality . My plans so far is to hideout in the hotel Mechanical room for a few days and see what Hamilton wants me to know about their boilers . I hope not to make the news .
Is there anything good about Detroit?

Utahn visiting Detroit in March 12th-16th

@ March 3, 2012 3:43 PM in Utahn visiting Detroit in March 12th-16th

I will be attending Hamilton Engineering training class on march 14th and 15th. I would love to meet folks and make new friends or just put me in a boiler room to calm my nerves and feel at home.
I am a service technician / plumber and recently self employed .
Any suggestions on what to do for a couple days ?

oops sorry , I'm new at

@ February 25, 2012 3:12 AM in Conversion Burner Training

pushing buttons here.

I'm very Interested but can't justify it .

@ February 25, 2012 2:56 AM in Conversion Burner Training

Not much for me to monopolize in Utah natural gas is common and some propane out in the country . I have only seen one waste oil burner with nat. gas ignition . And have heard of another oil burner way down southern Utah. There could be more and if I get trained and would I eventually see one that needs to be converted?

I'm very Interested but can't justify it .

@ February 25, 2012 2:56 AM in Conversion Burner Training

Not much for me to monopolize in Utah natural gas is common and some propane out in the country . I have only seen one waste oil burner with nat. gas ignition . And have heard of another oil burner way down southern Utah. There could be more and if I get trained and would I eventually see one that needs to be converted?
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