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Hilly

Hilly

Joined on December 15, 2011

Last Post on August 16, 2014

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Say this the other day

@ August 16, 2014 10:08 AM in Say this the other day

Is there anything even logical about this install? Great way to utilize the old compression today. This is the stuff I see all the time. And I believe that's a 23 kWh boiler in a attached both sides row house, 2 story with about 500sq per floor. I didn't do a heatloss or anything but I know it's grossly oversized. I wasn't there heating related and there was nobody there to voice an opinion but this is the 'heating professionals' at their best in my neck of the woods.

the more I read the less I feel I know

@ August 6, 2014 8:54 AM in How would you....? (daycare mixing)

Everything will be accessible by the children in my opinion. It's a totally open concept building. The DW will have it's own dedicated line directly from the HWT before any mixing occurs. It's one 3/4" straight HE trunk with 8-12' 1/2" branch lines supplying every fixture with one elbow added. (there will be 7Lavs (1.5gpm max), 3KS(2.2gpm max), 2LT(2.2gpm max)
The two LT's I am considering running 120 to since (it appears in the specs) they will be in locked storage rooms and the water may be used for cleaning applications.

some info

@ August 5, 2014 12:40 PM in How would you....? (daycare mixing)

So there would be a single 1070 valve for every sink that is accessible? Am I right that 1070 is the offcial 'scald protection' device required and that it is single fixture point of use only? 10 of those would certainly add up. I honestly assumed there would have been an acceptable point of distribution alternative. Essentially I need one branch straight from the HWT that is to the DW and all other HW in the building could be the 108 requirement. Btw that's all they said about temp requirements, 100-108F and we haven't a clue what you mean by asse 1070,1071,etc. 'Your plumber will set the water temperature and we should look for the temperature gauge to verify when inspected.

Electric Boiler and short cycling

@ August 3, 2014 4:26 PM in Electric Boiler and short cycling

Is Short Cycling a big issue with an electric considering it is nearly 100% efficient? I know components will suffer shorter life expectancies but is that the only concern? Am I wrong that short cycling concerns are mainly an efficiency concern?

There's no 'Officials' to decide or regulate

@ August 3, 2014 4:20 PM in How would you....? (daycare mixing)

No building inspector help. All they say is 'your plumber can decide'. That's been the answer to almost any question that has been posed. The building designer (engineer) just says ask the town, ask the plumber or do what the code says. They pretty much stamped the vague plans, passed them to the general and said see ya later. It's been tricky to deal with. ie, "Hey I was looking through your plans and your bearing walls on the main don't line up with the basement columns and beams. They miss by a foot on each side. General calls the engineer and he says opps, yeah you'll just have to put in 4 steel cross beams to carry the load." They couldn't just change the walls because the trusses were already designed and manufactured for the second floor layout, so the beams were the best solution. Sorry for the tangent, but I was basically illustrating the fact that what I do here will have to be of my 'own' doing and won't be regulated by anyone.

Heat Loss... again...ish

@ August 3, 2014 3:31 PM in Heat Loss... again...ish

So I recall on previous posts and conversation that when do a heat loss for a job you will use different values based on whether the HTU is a radiant, baseboard, fan-coils, etc. Does it make a big difference? Should you be overly concerned with it when you have radiant in basement slab, staple for titled areas and then cast iron for the looks and heating the mittens in your entrances? A good friend is building and it looks like it'll be a hybrid of HTU's... but I'll get more into that when the time comes. I just got the plans so I wanted to focus on the heatloss and potentially doing a low-temp design.

Best I got so far

@ August 3, 2014 2:49 PM in How would you....? (daycare mixing)

Hot water requirements for hand-washing are 110-115F.
That is from Standards and Guidelines for Health in Child Care Settings (2005) released by the Gov't of NL.


I think whatever route I take that the water should be more in the range of 103-110? Any thoughts.
It is Sunday I will have to call around tomorrow during business hours. I know the plumbing code here has nothing on it, but I believe hot water in child and elderly care settings is being addressed for the next code upgrade (2015 Edition)

How would you....? (daycare mixing)

@ August 3, 2014 11:06 AM in How would you....? (daycare mixing)

So I have been asked do the plumbing for a family friend on a new daycare centre. I've looked the plan on there are 7 Basins, 3 KS, two Laundry Tub, and one dishwasher. I want the mixing valves.. nobody is looking for them here, but I'm making them have them because I don't want anything coming back to me or them. An injured child because of me wouldn't sit well on my chest. Mixing is the right thing to do

I was considering just to temper the whole building with a thermostatic mixing valve but noticed the lowest flow rate I could get it to function ideally is 1.4gpm. (I was specigically looking at the caleffi mixcal with temp sensor) If only one handsink is turned on and the faucet only delivers 1.0-1.2gpm with this actually work?
I intend to mix the KS's also because this is an open concept building and they are easily accessible by the children. But should I run hot water to the LT's for cleaning purposes?

Sorry, I know I ramble sometimes so I'll list my Q's
1) how would you temper this system, point of use or at the source?
2) Should I avoid Thermostatic only and use Scald Protection Device?
3) Would you run a higher temperature to the LT fixtures in the locked supply rooms?

I'd like to do this efficient and economically, but not cheap out either... since Lawyers fee's will far outweigh anything I put into this system.

East Coast

@ July 17, 2014 8:13 PM in Looking to make condensate neutralizer

Newfoundland, yes Canada
Everything is hard to get here. You can buy 6 circs here. 15-58, 15-42 and some bell and gossett. Any BB or Alpha I've had to special order. Now that I've got a few the turn around is only 1 day, 2 if I order it late in the afternoon, that is if they don't have one there for me already. I ordered some Callefi items because, well there shit is cool and I had no time sensitivity about getting them and really wanted to try there stuff plus it was to be a non-heating season fix up. Placed the wonderful order got some neat stuff.... 5 weeks later the supplier calls me and says we need a $2000 minimum order to activate an account, so would you like anymore items. 5 WEEKS!! to tell me no you can't have any. But after that the min would be waived I believe.
Blah... hope that made sense and entertained.

Still Lost

@ July 17, 2014 7:38 PM in Looking to make condensate neutralizer

I found Limestone Pellets that are quite small at one place. I'm afraid they could clump together and clog the drain. Is that a possibility. I'm still only down to finding Rock Salts and any sort of neutralizer, but am unsure if they'll work. It's terrible in you live in the middle of nowhere (well when it comes to anything related to heating that I take on) and you can't find what appear to be everyday products for everyone here.

I called everyone 'water treatment' expert and the best I get is why do you want that, I explain and they say "oh by'e I can't help ya with 'dat one" Well I'm slightly lying because one chemical company had a 'liquid lime injection system" but he said that would be far too elaborate for my needs.

softener salt rocks?

@ July 14, 2014 8:44 AM in Looking to make condensate neutralizer

No marble chips, limestone or choral rock in my city. Must have went to and called 10-20 places in total. Would 'salt rock' for water softener systems bring up the PH levels enough? I know salt is neutral but it will bring acid and alkaline PH levels closer to neutral.

another question

@ July 9, 2014 9:44 PM in Looking to make condensate neutralizer

That is quit sharp. It's nice to see what some other people can think up... A wonderful age we live in. Thanks for the response. As always I really appreciate it.

Side question.... Would the condensate from a mini-split or heat pump system create the same potential havoc that the condensate from a gas fired condensing device does?

pictures?

@ July 9, 2014 8:37 PM in Looking to make condensate neutralizer

Have any pictures of your condensate neutralizer setup Mark?

slab stuff only

@ July 2, 2014 11:02 AM in Kitec transition

The staple up will all be replaced. It is to transition 4 3/4" Leaders (2 Supply and 2 Return) to remotely placed manifolds in the basement level. Each of these leaders are routed through the slab. Yes it'll only mean I'm removing approx. 10' of kitec in totally on those lines. But that's the request... I'm just curious if their's a pex-al-pex fitting that I can use in it. Theoretically it makes sense that any pex-al-pex fitting that is available should do the trick but I was looking for confirmation. I know there's no guarantee, but I don't want it to fail because I used a non-compatible fitting.

Kitec transition

@ July 2, 2014 10:12 AM in Kitec transition

So insurance companies are reluctant to give insurance to home owners with new policies if a home has Kitec piping installed. The purchaser and vendor have an agreement to have the piping removed and replaced with pex piping and to then split the cost of all the work required. Here's the catch... It's a heating job with staple and on main floor but the basement is in slab. The insurer has agree to offer insurance if everything is replaced except the in-slab and as much of the leaders and and exposed piping to and from the slab are addressed.
Here's the question... Would another companies Pex-Al-Pex fittings be acceptable to make the transition. ie. pex-al-pex X fnpt adpert or another or combination of pex-al-pexXsomething to make an appropriate transition?

check hot pressure near by.

@ May 28, 2014 12:16 PM in Grundfos MQ Booster

Definitely check the pressure on the hot side somewhere near by too. Like was mentioned, the pressure will drop on the cold side to match the hot… pressure-balancing control valve. Anything over 40# and that fixture should be just fine from my experience. There was a reno as you mentioned, so who knows how many times those lines were cut and joined elsewhere in the system upstream. I cut out a troublesome shower valve one time on a service call and found a electrical wire connector slammed up against the inlet of the valve. Wasn't my mishap, was only lucky enough be on the service call and even luckier to find the problem. Pull the cartridge and carefully blow the water through to make sure nothing got caught in there. Found wood chips, burrs, etc all over cartridge's before. Anyway I can't wait to find out how you overcome this. Please be sure to share you're triumph with us in the end.

slowly learning

@ May 23, 2014 11:58 AM in Loss Calculations

Icesailor I feel like I should just pay you to come tag along for a while to really learn some real world stuff. Most of my hedonic is practical because I do twice the reading and half the work. Plumbing is my trade but hydronics is definitely what I love.

Loss Calculations

@ May 22, 2014 12:02 PM in Loss Calculations

I've been playing with some of the different software available out there.
One gives a
Total Heat Loss: 53,443
Downward to Ground: 12345
Total Infiltration Loss: 13,888

Program B gives a Total Heat Loss 49,050 and then also a Total Heating Load 62,500.

Would you size the boiler based on 'which figures??

does 'contact the user' work

@ May 20, 2014 3:35 PM in Some stuff for sale...

I wrote you a msg through 'contact the user' but I am not sure if it went through.

the generator, it crossed my mind

@ May 20, 2014 3:33 PM in LP or Oil

The LP generator did cross my mind also. I haven't seen one in action, but I understand that they are fairly quiet in their operation. Being able to function during those Brown times is the main reason for using anything but Electric also.

like the idea of a super clean and tidy mech room with a wall hung

@ May 19, 2014 2:51 PM in LP or Oil

I appreciate that input very much so. Considering I get everything at 'cost' also means I don't mind spending upfront to keep myself out of trouble in the future. I have friends with combustion analyzers along with I don't know what else. Gas is even a bigger cowboy industry here than hydronics. But I have friends who have gain a lot of knowledge outside of the province who can give help with that. I've heard too many horror stories of bad lp setups here. Thankfully I have a good lead time before I need to decide on anything concrete. Also I should have the fuel prices tomorrow for current prices (Today is a holiday) Thanks again for your responses.

forgot

@ May 19, 2014 8:28 AM in LP or Oil

Jamie I had totally forgot. The whole reason to avoid electricty was to avoid the blackouts. We had ourselves a long winter that featured scheduled 'rolling blackouts' I wasn't affected too bad because I am on a grid with some semi-essential services. Also electricity here is 10.7C/KW and that's before tax. And the political future here indicates in the next 3-6 years that could hit anywhere from 17-22c!
So for self sufficiency during those dirt times oil/lp would be preferred. And LP will be there on site at the very least.

The work will be preformed mostly by myself. I have am a plumber by trade and hydronics is a cowboy industry out this way. So for the last couple of years I've been reading, reading, reading. If it was big business here and I had my past back, heating would have been my focus.
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