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Joined on December 15, 2011

Last Post on July 17, 2014

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East Coast

@ July 17, 2014 8:13 PM in Looking to make condensate neutralizer

Newfoundland, yes Canada
Everything is hard to get here. You can buy 6 circs here. 15-58, 15-42 and some bell and gossett. Any BB or Alpha I've had to special order. Now that I've got a few the turn around is only 1 day, 2 if I order it late in the afternoon, that is if they don't have one there for me already. I ordered some Callefi items because, well there shit is cool and I had no time sensitivity about getting them and really wanted to try there stuff plus it was to be a non-heating season fix up. Placed the wonderful order got some neat stuff.... 5 weeks later the supplier calls me and says we need a $2000 minimum order to activate an account, so would you like anymore items. 5 WEEKS!! to tell me no you can't have any. But after that the min would be waived I believe.
Blah... hope that made sense and entertained.

Still Lost

@ July 17, 2014 7:38 PM in Looking to make condensate neutralizer

I found Limestone Pellets that are quite small at one place. I'm afraid they could clump together and clog the drain. Is that a possibility. I'm still only down to finding Rock Salts and any sort of neutralizer, but am unsure if they'll work. It's terrible in you live in the middle of nowhere (well when it comes to anything related to heating that I take on) and you can't find what appear to be everyday products for everyone here.

I called everyone 'water treatment' expert and the best I get is why do you want that, I explain and they say "oh by'e I can't help ya with 'dat one" Well I'm slightly lying because one chemical company had a 'liquid lime injection system" but he said that would be far too elaborate for my needs.

softener salt rocks?

@ July 14, 2014 8:44 AM in Looking to make condensate neutralizer

No marble chips, limestone or choral rock in my city. Must have went to and called 10-20 places in total. Would 'salt rock' for water softener systems bring up the PH levels enough? I know salt is neutral but it will bring acid and alkaline PH levels closer to neutral.

another question

@ July 9, 2014 9:44 PM in Looking to make condensate neutralizer

That is quit sharp. It's nice to see what some other people can think up... A wonderful age we live in. Thanks for the response. As always I really appreciate it.

Side question.... Would the condensate from a mini-split or heat pump system create the same potential havoc that the condensate from a gas fired condensing device does?


@ July 9, 2014 8:37 PM in Looking to make condensate neutralizer

Have any pictures of your condensate neutralizer setup Mark?

slab stuff only

@ July 2, 2014 11:02 AM in Kitec transition

The staple up will all be replaced. It is to transition 4 3/4" Leaders (2 Supply and 2 Return) to remotely placed manifolds in the basement level. Each of these leaders are routed through the slab. Yes it'll only mean I'm removing approx. 10' of kitec in totally on those lines. But that's the request... I'm just curious if their's a pex-al-pex fitting that I can use in it. Theoretically it makes sense that any pex-al-pex fitting that is available should do the trick but I was looking for confirmation. I know there's no guarantee, but I don't want it to fail because I used a non-compatible fitting.

Kitec transition

@ July 2, 2014 10:12 AM in Kitec transition

So insurance companies are reluctant to give insurance to home owners with new policies if a home has Kitec piping installed. The purchaser and vendor have an agreement to have the piping removed and replaced with pex piping and to then split the cost of all the work required. Here's the catch... It's a heating job with staple and on main floor but the basement is in slab. The insurer has agree to offer insurance if everything is replaced except the in-slab and as much of the leaders and and exposed piping to and from the slab are addressed.
Here's the question... Would another companies Pex-Al-Pex fittings be acceptable to make the transition. ie. pex-al-pex X fnpt adpert or another or combination of pex-al-pexXsomething to make an appropriate transition?

check hot pressure near by.

@ May 28, 2014 12:16 PM in Grundfos MQ Booster

Definitely check the pressure on the hot side somewhere near by too. Like was mentioned, the pressure will drop on the cold side to match the hot… pressure-balancing control valve. Anything over 40# and that fixture should be just fine from my experience. There was a reno as you mentioned, so who knows how many times those lines were cut and joined elsewhere in the system upstream. I cut out a troublesome shower valve one time on a service call and found a electrical wire connector slammed up against the inlet of the valve. Wasn't my mishap, was only lucky enough be on the service call and even luckier to find the problem. Pull the cartridge and carefully blow the water through to make sure nothing got caught in there. Found wood chips, burrs, etc all over cartridge's before. Anyway I can't wait to find out how you overcome this. Please be sure to share you're triumph with us in the end.

slowly learning

@ May 23, 2014 11:58 AM in Loss Calculations

Icesailor I feel like I should just pay you to come tag along for a while to really learn some real world stuff. Most of my hedonic is practical because I do twice the reading and half the work. Plumbing is my trade but hydronics is definitely what I love.

Loss Calculations

@ May 22, 2014 12:02 PM in Loss Calculations

I've been playing with some of the different software available out there.
One gives a
Total Heat Loss: 53,443
Downward to Ground: 12345
Total Infiltration Loss: 13,888

Program B gives a Total Heat Loss 49,050 and then also a Total Heating Load 62,500.

Would you size the boiler based on 'which figures??

does 'contact the user' work

@ May 20, 2014 3:35 PM in Some stuff for sale...

I wrote you a msg through 'contact the user' but I am not sure if it went through.

the generator, it crossed my mind

@ May 20, 2014 3:33 PM in LP or Oil

The LP generator did cross my mind also. I haven't seen one in action, but I understand that they are fairly quiet in their operation. Being able to function during those Brown times is the main reason for using anything but Electric also.

like the idea of a super clean and tidy mech room with a wall hung

@ May 19, 2014 2:51 PM in LP or Oil

I appreciate that input very much so. Considering I get everything at 'cost' also means I don't mind spending upfront to keep myself out of trouble in the future. I have friends with combustion analyzers along with I don't know what else. Gas is even a bigger cowboy industry here than hydronics. But I have friends who have gain a lot of knowledge outside of the province who can give help with that. I've heard too many horror stories of bad lp setups here. Thankfully I have a good lead time before I need to decide on anything concrete. Also I should have the fuel prices tomorrow for current prices (Today is a holiday) Thanks again for your responses.


@ May 19, 2014 8:28 AM in LP or Oil

Jamie I had totally forgot. The whole reason to avoid electricty was to avoid the blackouts. We had ourselves a long winter that featured scheduled 'rolling blackouts' I wasn't affected too bad because I am on a grid with some semi-essential services. Also electricity here is 10.7C/KW and that's before tax. And the political future here indicates in the next 3-6 years that could hit anywhere from 17-22c!
So for self sufficiency during those dirt times oil/lp would be preferred. And LP will be there on site at the very least.

The work will be preformed mostly by myself. I have am a plumber by trade and hydronics is a cowboy industry out this way. So for the last couple of years I've been reading, reading, reading. If it was big business here and I had my past back, heating would have been my focus.

LP or Oil

@ May 18, 2014 3:21 PM in LP or Oil

Where I live we have a couple of heating options
Oil Electric LP and then there's the others of course ie geothermals, air-water/air, solar, wind.

So with the real day to day choices being Oil, KW's and LP I really like the idea of the gas boilers for their compact sizing, eff ratings, and no oil on site.

Okay so to the question, should I be aware of anything with regards to running a LP version of a boiler opposed to a NG version? Are there any short comings I might not be knowledgeable to? I just plan to build a house in the next 23 months and I want to get my head wrapped around how I'll heat it. It'd be so much easier if we just had NG here, but that will never happen in my lifetime. Getting a 50K boiler in oil would be expensive so here, there's pretty much two or three boilers and that's about. I live up in Newfoundland, so supply and demand doesn't give you much option.

partially disregard indirect load

@ May 12, 2014 1:11 PM in Heat Load assessment different from quuted Boiler Size

icesailor in your opinion then... if a DWH load is on some sort of indirect priority is it safe to not include it in the sizing of the boiler?
Well not totally, I'll rephrase, the boiler would have to be at least the same size as the the max of either of the two loads. ie Boiler has to be at minimum, the great of the two (Heat Load or DHW Load)

how do you heatloss: tips and tricks anyone?

@ April 10, 2014 5:03 PM in how do you heatloss: tips and tricks anyone?

Just curious how most of the professional here get their heatloss calculations done. What do you find most efficient? ie, measure and sketch floorplan and then put into software back at the office, or do you use technology in some manner to created a floorplan on site and do you heatloss off site, do you use computers or tablets and do everything onsite on the fly? I am a beginner when it comes to heatloss, so I'm curious if any experienced professional have their trade tips or tricks to seamlessly getting the math done first. As always, I just want to thank anyone that reads or responds to this. Your experiences are often my best lessons when it comes to the hydronics world. Quality hydronics is often an enigma in my part of the world.

the re-pipe will happen anyway.

@ March 25, 2014 8:07 AM in indirect question

I am repiping the near boiler piping anyway. Circ is on return, manual air vent on suction side with 5', no isolations to purge each loop, no bfp, make-up water is somewhere funny too, cushion tank without 3/4 pipe, without extol tank fitting of any sort, no air separator or line scoop, it's a two zone; zone way setup, that has a flow check that makes a massive amount of noise, and one zone is a split return with no balancing.

So the original thought from the homeowner was could I make his system more quiet… after the fact he'd asked about adding better hot water… Thats when I was curious about the indirect. But as it stands I'll probably keep that simple and utilize the existing coil like you have suggested.

Is this right?

@ March 24, 2014 7:30 AM in indirect question

I went searching the forum and found quite a few of your old post. I don't know if you changed your way of doing it, but it appears that I cannot grasps your connection setup, it seems your picture here is a little different than you'd explained it in the past.

1) Circ line (from HWT drain) -> CW inlet on Tankless coil
2) CW (city feed) -> tee's in downstream of circ line and will feed CW inlet (coil) also
3) HW outlet on tankless coil -> pipes into CW inlet on top of hot water tank.
4) HW outlet on HWT -> pipes into HW distribution for the household

?'s: > Should the cw(city) then have a check valve on it?
How would I size the pump? would I be looking at support the 5gpm this coil boosts?
I know you say 006 in many of your post but would it just be a matter of getting your piping loss and finding something to support the GPM? This isn't for myself and I don't want to have any return visits attempting to tweak things.
Triple AquaStat can then be set at 150/170 with the dif on 10?

Note: the reason I'd considered the indirect was because the boiler required a full re-pipe anyway to get rid of all the noise and air problems so I thought it was a simple solution.

Thanks for your info ice sailor

indirect question

@ March 22, 2014 10:40 AM in indirect question

The boiler is a Saturn by Granby Industries. Their literature is very poor.
I have been asked to add an indirect in replace of the coil and add air elimination to this poorly piped system. The owner wants better fuel consumption, quieter system and better hot water performance.

My big problem is around the indirect, an e-mail from the manufacturer told me don't cold start the boiler. If I keep the triple aquastat installed and maintain a system low temperature will I have much fuel savings by switching to an indirect? For a two zone series loop system with BB fin-tube would a ODR make much sense?

5 book combo

@ February 19, 2014 4:22 PM in Looking for book recommendations!

You should buy Dan's combo package of 'hot water' books. Will give you a solid base, if you need more info past those reads then John's book is fantastic... But my personal opinion is that going through Dan's books first will allow a layman to navigate John's book with much better efficiency. Just my opinion.

found it

@ February 9, 2014 11:18 AM in How, exactly does

Just found this on there I/O manual… This was the part I was curious on. I guess it has something similar to the CMOS in a PC that will 'remember' settings.

"Zone panel control applications — when there is a call for heat and power has been sent to the Alpha pump, the Alpha will remember and restart from the last duty point and hydraulic mode."
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