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Joined on January 19, 2012

Last Post on April 15, 2014

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Heat exchanger

@ April 15, 2014 10:48 AM in The dreaded Entran

Of course you will need a heat exchanger or the problem will never stop.
The real question is how do you keep it from plugging up?
What is really plugging the tubes?
If it is really the tubing falling apart, you have a bigger problem.


@ April 11, 2014 8:29 AM in New Circ Pump Flange 90 Degrees Off

The flanges are threaded, yes?
Use 2 pipe wrenches and take them off. Retape and or seal the threads,then thread them back on stopping in the position you desire. If you try to do this without taking it apart, you will likely end up with a leak.

Pin Holes

@ April 10, 2014 8:28 AM in home owner

As for the circulator sizing, it does not have to be anything elaborate. If you can say "it is about 100' of 3/4" pipe and the circulator is this model number", that would suffice.
Are the pinholes forming along the bottom of the straight sections of pipe or are the after a fitting?
At this point, I think you need to narrow this down. Do you have (or had) a water quality issue or is the problem velocity related.


@ April 9, 2014 9:19 AM in home owner

Hot rod,
Are you thinking that the corrosion is creating a "corrosive cocktail" within the heating fluid?
Normally the O2 issue does not effect copper.
To the OP, Have you checked the PH of the system water?


@ April 8, 2014 11:15 PM in home owner

If you have a zone with a frequent call for heat and the zone has too large a circulator, the pipe may be deteriorating due to high velocity water.If you post a picture of your boiler piping along with the model circulator and approx length and diameter pipe, that would help.

Rabbits trail...

@ April 3, 2014 6:02 PM in Problems with Open radiant floor system

Alright, it looks like you have your mind made up on the "open" thing.
For me, I only had to see the stinky green slime in the tubes once and I am convinced it is a bad plan.
As for the check valve. What type do you have that is failing?
I wonder if a "dual check" like you would have on the service to a building would work better. Some can be disassembled and cleaned. Either way it sounds like it is a part that will continue to have issues, good isolation valves and unions will make the job easier.


@ April 3, 2014 5:42 PM in LAARS Endurance problem

Are you turning down the thermostat in the house or something on the boiler?
Does the boiler also heat the domestic hot water?


@ April 3, 2014 2:03 PM in Problems with Open radiant floor system

This is not about personal preference. It is about your health.Don't take my word for it. Take a sample of the water in your system and have it checked for legionella.
A heat exchanger set up is just not that expensive.

The system works fantastically , aside from poisoning the occupants.
"Aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

The engineer...

@ April 3, 2014 8:19 AM in what is the maximuin water flow through 1 inch copper at 50 psi

Should calculate all this. He should also look at the capacity of  the well to see if it can keep up.Since the well is also a fire pump it may need to be wired differently.
He should have already looked at this as his system should be designed based on available GPM and PSI.

I see...

@ April 2, 2014 11:33 PM in Auto fill/back flow preventer. Is it necessary?

I think what you have will work.
It is to bad you can't dual purpose the DHW tank to give you some more system buffer.
Have you considered putting a reverse indirect buffer/dhw tank on the heating side?
Wood boilers need something to heat, they don't idle well.


@ April 2, 2014 11:17 PM in LAARS Endurance problem

How are you adjusting the temp?
How are the 2 boilers controlled?
Turning down the temp on a non-condensing boiler can damage the boiler.
Can you post some pictures?

Fire Protection

@ April 2, 2014 11:01 PM in what is the maximuin water flow through 1 inch copper at 50 psi

Fire systems are a whole different game.
In most areas the whole thing including the well and pump need to be designed by an engineer.
I think it is safe to say that your 1" line will not be big enough.

Flow rate

@ April 2, 2014 6:53 PM in what is the maximuin water flow through 1 inch copper at 50 psi

I think the max flow rate for cold water that most codes allow is 8 feet per second. At that rate you could move 18-22 gpm depending on the wall thickness of your pipe.Ideally you would not move it that fast as it could wear out your pipes. I think the flow rates in the above post is a better idea (about 6fps).
The pressure drop at those rates should not be an issue (less than 5psi).
If you are wondering how fast the water could move through the pipe,if you left the end open. The answer is ALOT!


@ April 2, 2014 6:02 PM in Auto fill/back flow preventer. Is it necessary?

Your heating piping has an extra circ. There is no need for the primary loop and closely spaced tees. You could instead run your 2 mixing loops right off the exchangers. You just need a beefy header size and check valves on the circs.
The same applies to the owb and hot water heating piping. Right now the water heater is heating a cold wood boiler.


@ April 2, 2014 5:29 PM in Weil McLain indirect hot water heater, short cycling?..

I am assuming that the indirect is a zone that is being prioritized by the Taco?
The first thing I would do is be sure it is not a control issue. Does the zone valve open?
If you manually open the zone valve and jumper the TT to the boiler does the problem go away? A flaky contact in the indirects aquastat, zone valve end switch or taco relay could be causing this.
If the control side checks out, I would then check for proper circulation then start trouble shooting the boiler.


@ April 2, 2014 11:47 AM in Hot Water Tanks and Sizes

You have fairly low hot water requirements.
It sounds like you are trying to decide between an indirect and an electric.
What is heating your hot water presently? How well does it work?
What type of boiler do you have? What fuel does it run on?
If you have an oversized oil boiler, the electric is usually a good option as it saves you money in the summer.
If you have a high efficiency gas boiler, the indirect is usually a good call.


@ April 1, 2014 9:06 AM in How To Make Current System More Efficient

Do you have hot water baseboard?
What model are the boilers?
Have you purchased the buffer tank? Does it have 4 ports so it can be used as a hydrolic separator?

Depending on the answers to the above questions, I think the ideal plan would be to have the 2 boilers piped in parallel on one side of the buffer tank/ separator. The heat manifolds would come off the other side.

You will save electrical circulator energy by going with zone valves and ECM.circ. You need to pump away from the expansion tank .

Outdoor reset will not help much with efficiency as both boilers are non condensing. It may help with comfort.

The controls are pretty simple. Keep the buffer tank at a certain temp using a 2 boiler controller with an adjustable differential to assure long cycle times.



@ March 31, 2014 1:20 PM in Modcons in Closets-

I believe they are concerned that the limited space inside the closet will cause the room to get too warm which would potentially over heat the flue pipe.
Install per manual with PP piping and you should be all set.

Browser/operating system

@ March 31, 2014 9:03 AM in Coming From the"High"Country CO...(Altitude not Attitude:-)

What system are you on? You might try another browser.
I will sometimes copy my text an bigger posts in case the system malfunctions.
I am interested in your thoughts on this one....


@ March 31, 2014 8:54 AM in Bad hydronic panel install...

I have used that manifold. They worked well for me although I have heard some folks on here that have had bad experience with leaking. They require British threading so be sure to order the adapters with them.
Those radiators should use a metric r-20 fitting. What did the installer use? I have not tried it but would be surprised if you had trouble with any r-20 fitting.
Ideally you would use the buderus TRV to balance the room. You should be able to balance it manually with the manifold.


@ March 30, 2014 10:08 AM in Rinnai tankless woes

I would suggest posting this as a new thread rather than burying in an unrelated 4 year old one.
You would also get better feedback if you post the model number of you appliance and a picture of the piping around it.


@ March 27, 2014 1:06 AM in Coming From the"High"Country CO...(Altitude not Attitude:-)

What in the world are you talking about?
The difference in pressure between  sea level and 10,000 feet (where I am sitting right now) is a little less than 5 PSI. If a diver goes down 33 feet underwater they have doubled the atmospheric pressure.

As you go to higher altitudes combustion generally works just fine. You just have to change the air/fuel mixture and derate the appliance, as Mark pointed out.

What Richard is trying to figure out is whether a specific boiler has been proven at a higher altitude than the manufacture specs. I honestly don't know but understand where he is heading. Some mod/cons take on some weird characteristics when the air gets to thin.They get strange harmonic hums and cannot be tuned for peak efficiency. You really don't want to be the first guy to try and figure out the maximum operating altitude of a new product.

As a side note, the climbers at 18k feet cook food just fine. The water boils just fine, it is just at a much lower temp and it takes the food longer to cook.The burner also produces less BTU's than it does at sea level. I have never heard that if you don't heat the food enough, the vitamins won't come out. What temp do you cook you salads at?

As for the plane depressurizing, I think the people would be screaming hard enough so that the the lungs would not buld pressure and rupture.

I wonder if Carol Fey at Viessmann would be of any help. I would think she has a solid understanding of altitude.If tests were done in Leadville she may be able to access them.

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