Joined on January 19, 2012
Last Post on December 5, 2013
@ November 21, 2013 1:07 PM in Radiant and panel rads on single zone?The best way to do this is to have the Boiler control the mixing valve.
That way the boiler is always at the lowest temp.
Lochinvar is designed to do this.
@ November 21, 2013 10:09 AM in Help! Unusual system design problemCan you post a sketch of the whole system?
It looks like an incorrect primary/secondary arrangement.
More info needed...
@ November 21, 2013 10:05 AM in Need advice on how to go about getting custom controls madeI hate to curb your enthusiasm ...
Space heaters are already made in all shapes and sizes. Most of the larger ones are sold as shop or construction heaters.
Larger space heaters are not sold for residential use because of electrical requirements and fire safety issues.
A UL rating is not a simple application. Years of design and testing is required. I would budget $100k + for the label.
@ November 21, 2013 9:33 AM in Boiler run timesYour run times seem pretty normal.
The boiler has an outdoor reset curve. If it is set up correctly it can vary it's temp up to about 190 max.
The 1st zone has a higher BTU loss and will run more often.
I would wait and see how it performs in colder weather.
Running long cycles is not a bad thing, it is good.
A 60K/BTU boiler is not undersized for the house you describe. It is possible other components of the system are not sized correctly, the boiler seems about right. Did anyone do a heat loss?
@ November 21, 2013 9:23 AM in steam helpI would repost this one time in the strictly steam section. Pictures would help!
@ November 21, 2013 9:20 AM in Hydronic HellI think you have a pretty good grasp of your situation.
The tubing lengths are the real killer. You are 5x the ideal lengths and 3 times workable. Even with larger circs the temp drop through a loop that long will create hot and cold spots. A circ that large will by costly to purchase and operate.
You did not mention slab insulation.
The other issues are solvable on there own, you cannot transfer the heat needed with 1000 foot runs.
If this was my system, I would start looking at alternative heat.
Panel radiators of forced air?
@ November 20, 2013 11:39 PM in Heat tranfer platesYou really need to do you homework on this one.
Geo is a very expensive project. You need to get it right.
110 degree water is pretty low. 2" floor is pretty thick.
You need to start with a heat loss then carefully design your radiant panel system to match that loss with the 110 degree water temp you can provide. You don't really have the option to crank up the water temp if you miscalculate.
Keep sending the details.
@ November 20, 2013 11:24 PM in Noisy pipes near boiler when only 1 zone is openI really love the "boiler is piped wrong" or "call a real pro" responses.
Why bother to post?
The fact of the matter is, Triangle Tube allows non primary/secondary installations. It is in their manual and there training classes.As long as you meet the flow requirements,it is not the problem.
Does the noise occur when any of the zones are the only one operating or is it one particular zone that causes the problem?
Your circulator is probably too big. Is it set to "speed1"?
On the boiler press the "mode" button until it says "info"
Now press "step" 2 times. Record the numbers as you press step it will say "1 xxx" then "2 xxx" These are the supply and return temps. If the differences between these numbers should be between 5 and 20 depending on the size of the zones.
I cannot tell much from the pictures. Is the circulator and the zone valves on the supply with the circulator arrow pointing to the right? Is the expansion tank on the return?
@ November 20, 2013 9:20 AM in Problem heating second levelWhat type of baseboard do you have?
How many feet of base board?
How big is the room?
What type of construction,insulation,windows?
Is the water returning to the boiler almost as hot as the supply or is it much cooler?
@ November 19, 2013 8:53 PM in Old baseboards....Flat with no fins....can't heat house to 67 degreesIf you have very hot water going in and out of the radiators, I think you are just under radiated. You need to do a heat loss calc on the rooms and compare it to the ratings on the radiators.
It is likely that you will need to add some radiators.
@ November 19, 2013 9:31 AM in Erie Poptop Actuator - C wire for thermostat?This post pretty well covers it.
I would not assume you have 3 wires, especially if it is not bundled with the other 2.
You should be able to use the ethernet wire for your common, assuming you can get it back to the transformer.You should be able to splice the wire and get a common to the mechanical.
The OP on the above thread used an extra transformer. That works as long as it is on the same circuit (or phase), but is not necessary.
@ November 18, 2013 11:19 PM in Noisy pipes near boiler when only 1 zone is openA picture of the boiler room piping would help.
What type of heat zones do you have?
What does the pressure gauge on the boiler read?
Where is the expansion tank in relation to the Grundfos.
It sounds like you are describing pump cavitation.
@ November 17, 2013 9:54 PM in Observation about HX designsThey also have higher water volume and lower head resistance.
@ November 17, 2013 9:44 AM in Twin Aerco boilers installed this week. Really like these boilers.John,
How did the controls side of this go? The manual looks pretty cryptic? Is it set as always on or a T-stat.
@ November 17, 2013 9:36 AM in Need help with E8 boiler cascade controller!!The E8 looks like a very powerful and versatile controller. It is also very European. I do not believe that you can wire T-stats directly to it.
What happens if you wire the t-stat to one of the boilers?
As far as sensors go, The E8 will need an outdoor sensor and a manifold supply temp sensor. The others are probably for other applications.
The good news is that the boilers are capable of being controlled via 0-10vdc signals.
If you become fed up with the E8 you could go to a well supported North American company like Tekmar. I would call them before purchasing.
Did JohnnyNY respond? He seemed to like the product.
@ November 16, 2013 11:28 PM in Should I have separate system and boiler pumps?Good to here you have it worked out.
Sometimes slabs have enough mass to act as a bit of a buffer.
I think you should hook up the outdoor sensor. It is just two wires and some settings that you are probably familiar with.
Sometimes the theoretical calculations are out weighed by what really happens in a heating system.
Thanks for the follow up
@ November 16, 2013 10:49 PM in New Construction Tankless HeatingThat is a closed system. That is good.
You are correct that a water heater is not the same as a boiler. You have a budget system. Yes you could upgrade later with a combi boiler.
I have never seen tubing that changes color from red to blue.It is best to not splice the tubing they obviously did.
I am guessing it is potable water tubing with out an oxygen barrier. This is a problem if you have ferrous metal in the system. It is a sign of an inexperienced installer.
Is the tubing in a slab?
@ November 16, 2013 8:05 PM in New Construction Tankless HeatingFirst let's figure out if it is open. There are health issues that go along with that one.
Post some pictures
@ November 16, 2013 8:01 PM in crown boiler bimini120,000 is the input BTU rating. In a high temp application the boiler will likely burn at 84%. That would give you an output of 100,800.
The head loss in the manual gives a very generous boiler piping allowance. I think most installations will use less piping.
There is no reason you have to be at a 20 degree delta at full fire. I would not design for perfection on the coldest day at the expense of over pumping on your typical heating day.
A condensing boiler will have the same combustion efficiency as a conventional boiler at 180 degrees. The overall efficiency will likely be higher because the turn down ratio will reduce short cycling.
@ November 16, 2013 7:41 PM in Twin Aerco boilers installed this week. Really like these boilers.Nice work in a tight space!
I am curious what kind of combustion numbers you are seeing at low fire?
Too the second post, If you start another thread and provide the boiler model and type of zoning, you will get better results.
It doesn't work that well to piggy back a different topic.
@ November 16, 2013 7:35 PM in System LayoutIt sounds like you are doing a ground up design?
The key too maximizing the efficiency of today's Mod/cons is to size them correctly and design for the lowest return water temps you can.
I would start with the water temp you want on your design day and go from there.
You would then select radiators for each of our rooms that will match your heat loss for that space at the design water temp. Somewhere around a 130 degree supply temp would be a good starting point.
Your boiler piping may look a bit different than your father in law is used to. Boilers used to be piped to prevent condensation, now we encourage it.
You can generally go by the installation instructions from the boiler manufacture.
Every time I see a post like the second one in this thread, I appreciate the fact that I don't live in a place where people talk to each other like that. I'm sure in his mind he is being helpful....
@ November 16, 2013 11:08 AM in Multi temp loops questionSwei is correct ( again)
How far along are you?
A heat loss should be done.
Condensing boilers don't condense at high temps.
High temps and dry climates are brutal on hardwood floors