Joined on January 19, 2012
Last Post on March 7, 2014
@ May 12, 2013 12:02 AM in Triangle tube and taco sr 506Sorry about your head. Some off these posts go pretty deep.
Yes, you should able to wire one t-stat and one circulator directly to the boiler.
You might be surprised how low you can run your hot loops. It will take a bit of experimenting.
@ May 11, 2013 8:28 PM in Old System to newUsing a triangle tube 60 with no domestic water there is not much to design.
You can pretty much go by the diagrams in the installation manual.
Sizing the heat size circulator will take some consideration. Do you know what was installed before.
@ May 11, 2013 12:16 PM in Triangle tube and taco sr 506Your drawing is a simple solution. It has the opposite disadvantages to my solution. If limited high temp performance is not an issue,it should work fine.
I have had good luck with powered mixing valves. I also see an advantage to single appliances and indirect tanks.
This is what I like about The Wall. There is more than one right way. Always learning....
@ May 11, 2013 12:02 PM in No hot water unless calling for heatWhat is the boiler temp during all this.
It should be pretty easy to figure out if you have a boiler control issue or a mixing valve issue. Since it worked in the winter, I am guessing it is control related.
Sounds like you domestic aquastat it incorrectly wired or set. Possibly malfunctioning.
@ May 11, 2013 11:55 AM in Triangle tube and taco sr 506Heatpro,
I was hoping you would see the humor in the crack comment. I will let you know if I find some.
My point was you could have some control over the low temp utilizing the existing valves. When the high temp loop is calling, the only low temp control you would have would be a fixed maximum temp. Not ideal, but inexpensive.
I think Chris offered a decent budget solution with the I valve.
In my opinion the absolute best alternative would be to use a Tekmar TN4 system.
We recently did one that had a tekmar 423 controlling 2 modulating boilers. It can control up to 4 mixing valves at 4 different setpoints. The boilers will always be running at the lowest possible temp and the floor temps are dead on.
I am still boggled by the flat plate solution. You don't need to isolate the loops, you just need to control the temp. An automatic mixing valve or injection pump setup is much simpler.
I agree that triangle tube missed the ball on this one. I wonder if lochinvar has a solution on their firetube.
@ May 11, 2013 9:18 AM in Time to choose a boilerFind qualified installer Absolutely
Do heat loss analysis for proper boiler sizing Yes, Heat loss will also help you determine the tube spacing and how many plates you need in each room Not all rooms will have the same loss. Not all rooms need the same amount of radiation.
choose boiler with good warranty, easy to find parts, good technical support Not sure how slant fin made the list, how long has that exchanger been in the field? A good warranty is one thing. Knowing you will never need it.... Priceless.
Stainless steel heat exchanger over aluminum. Yes Firetube over Giovanni also
Read installation manual and require installer to install as per specs Yes
Must have digital combustion analyzer Yes
Set up/tweak low & high fire CO2 specs-verify specs YES
ad surge protector breaker for boiler Depends, The TT trimax has that covered. I watched a demo where they turned it down to 80 volts and it still ran perfectly.
Is super store OK for the indirect HW holding tank? That is a good one, Heatflo is also nice.
Anything I'm missing? The function of the aluminum plates is that they tranfer the heat to the floor faster. This allows the the boiler to run at lower temps and much more efficiently (because it is condensing). Make sure you get the right tubing. Pex-al-pex is nice for your application. Any Pex-a product will also work well. An O2 barrier is a must
Double check the propane conversion. Some boiler are more difficult than others. If memory serves me, The tt110 can be converted from propane to Nat. gas but not the other way. There are a few anomalies out there so double check when in doubt.
@ May 10, 2013 10:24 PM in Polypropylene vents becoming the way to goSay what you will, This is coming. The triangle tube rep explained this to me a few years back. The PVC manufacture don't want the liability. They never designed the pipe for this. Triangle Tube feels that the PVC is having a corrosive effect on the boilers. That is why they changed the internal exhaust stack and condensate collection pan from stainless to PP on the new boiler.
Don't shoot the messenger this has been brewing for a while.
@ May 10, 2013 10:17 PM in Triangle tube and taco sr 506Your mixing valves are thermostatic. They will always adjust to the same temp no matter how hot the primary loop is.If you install another relay to get a separate TT for CH2 it will work great as a 2 temp fixed temp system. The outdoor reset will not function optimally. The high temp will work great. The low temp will be pegged at the max temp set on the mixing valve anytime the high temp loop is calling. This is the simplest way without repiping.
Triangle tube had an add on for the old controller that would control a mixing valve as Chris is describing, it might be worth a call to tech support. Otherwise Chris's Ivalve solution would work pretty slick.
Heatpro, are you talking about a plate exchanger and a separate closed loop with it's own expansion and all the fixings, just to lower the temp in one loop? If so, please put down the crack pipe. If not, oops, never mind the crack comment, please explain.
@ May 10, 2013 8:21 PM in Old System to newSo, what do need us for. It sounds like you a have solid grasp on this.
I think your heat loss calc is a bit high. It is kind irrelevant as the boilers don't come that small.
I think using the outdoor reset function on the boiler will improve comfort and efficiency greatly.
You might consider putting remote zone valves and t-stats in place of the isolation valves in some of the rooms. If the system is well balanced now you may not need to.
The triangle tube is a great choice.
@ May 10, 2013 5:07 PM in Time to choose a boilerAs said before.
Absolutely a heat loss is needed.
You need some means of dispersing the heat whether it is a slab or heat transfer plates.
As for the boiler. I would look at the type of exchanger. Also look at the company. Are the a copper fin or cast iron company that also does condensing boilers. Or do they specialize in condensing.
@ May 10, 2013 5:00 PM in Any advise on pex....Why not use the propex stub ells. You can secure them just like copper. They can be sweat right into shower valves. Super clean looking
@ May 10, 2013 10:25 AM in Triangle tube and taco sr 506Are they thermostatic?You should be able to use the onboard controls on the boiler.
Do you have better details on how they are piped?
@ May 10, 2013 8:33 AM in Taco ZVC403 helpThere is no reason to move the circulator to the taco. You just have one circ, correct?
If you wire the t-stats per the manual and run a low voltage wire from the "isolated end switch" on the taco to the "TT" on the boiler you should be good to go. You don't have to worry about which wire goes on which terminal on that connection, it is just a switch.
Make sure to turn the zone 3 priority off.
@ May 8, 2013 10:56 PM in Time to choose a boilerI would go with the triangle tube. The firetube exchanger is stainless, has less maintenance and takes less circulator energy. They also have excellent tech support .
The slant fin and buderous are aluminum. Aluminum is a bad choice for a boiler.
Most of the other players use a giovanni heat exchanger. High maintenance and finicky.
Viesmann is also a fine product.
@ May 6, 2013 10:45 AM in CondensateThank you Tony.
Does anyone else want to weigh in?
I was kind of hoping someone had tested the PH before and after or maybe had a rotten pipe horror story to tell.
If my post was about delta t vs delta p or open vs closed heating I would have had 50 passionate responses by now.
This seems like one of those subjects that we all just bury our heads in the sand and install and forget a neutralizer.
Does it work? How long does it last? Is the PH really any worse than dumping a few gallons of orange juice down the toilet? How about NG vs LPG?
How about this. Chevy Trucks are the best! No one should own a Ford, Dodge or Toyota.
@ May 6, 2013 10:28 AM in Suggestions for frustrated and confused homeownerThe Triangle Tube may be twice as much as the Navien. Are you thinking that TT is just hungry for profits? I think it is built that much better. In my opinion companies building cheap condensing units are doing the industry a major disservice. All condensing boilers do NOT increase maintenance costs and have shorter service lives. Poorly made and/or installed units do.
You get what you pay for, so don't complain when the cheap one doesn't work. I would be pretty sure that pictures from the original post were not the work of the high bidder?
@ May 5, 2013 2:38 PM in T-StatThe other nice thing about the uponor is that you can lock out the high and low. Perfect for places where people meddle with t-stats.
@ May 5, 2013 11:56 AM in CondensatePropane combustion generally has higher CO2 than natural gas.
Are you saying it will off gas to the air?
@ May 5, 2013 9:24 AM in Question for the math junkiesThe cost to operate the circulator is literally pennies a month. 2hrs X 30 days X 25 watts X .00015 = 22.5 cents. Your heat loss threw the piping is another question all together. How long is the pipe? What type of pipe? What is the flow? How is it insulated? What is the temp of the air?
I lent out my Modern Hydronic Heating book and am unfortunately not smart enough to do it in my head.
@ May 5, 2013 9:12 AM in CondensateI've been thinking lately about the way we treat the condensate from condensing boilers and furnaces.
First off, It appears that propane condensate is more prone to damaging copper and cast piping than natural gas. There is nothing scientific about the observation, Ive just never seen the damage on natural gas systems that I have seen with propane.
I am thinking that the condensate neutralizers that everyone sells probably work pretty well as long as the media is changed regularly. It doesn't seem like like most systems get changed ever.
My question is,has anyone tested the PH before and after neutralizing?
Has anyone tested an unmaintained neutralizer?
Is my observation about Propane and Natural gas true or my imagination?
How bad is it to put untreated condensate in cast pipes?
It seems this is one of those things everyone does without much consideration, or maybe it is just me.
@ May 3, 2013 10:56 AM in Suggestions for frustrated and confused homeownerFirst off that is one horrible install. The kindergarteners should absolutely have their recess taken away.
What are your other energy options? Electricity is only 100% eff at the point of use. With plant inefficiencies and line loss it is more like 30%.
What do you pay for energy?
How is the rest of the install?
Does the tubing have an o2 barrier?
How long are the tubing loops?
Are the slabs insulated?
You need to have a heat loss done.
I would hate to see you spend a ton of money to make boiler room right to find out the rest of the system is junk.
@ May 1, 2013 9:54 AM in Unico system vs forced airSorry to hear about your Son's health.
It is also unfortunate that your Unico system was installed so poorly.
A house with a rodent problem is also unfortunate.
It is unclear to me what this problem has to do with Unico.
Many conventional systems use flex duct. The often have freezing and electrical problems when installed incorrectly.
This site is awesome for helping people sort out heating problems. There are plenty of other sites that are designed to help consumers to rip on manufactures.
Are you looking for assistance so you don't duplicate your past bad install or just looking for a 10 year old post to rip on?