Joined on January 19, 2012
Last Post on July 25, 2014
@ April 30, 2013 12:23 PM in Taking out a 3 yr old Navian..We have TT units that have been in the field for 8 years.Aside from some minor control glitches on the early models they have been bombproof.
@ April 30, 2013 11:19 AM in Taking out a 3 yr old Navian..I truly don't understand how these giovanni and aluminum designs are holding on to such a big chunk of the market.
The TT, Lochinvar, and Veissmann's are so much better.
Do people just see the WM or Burnham names and jump right in?
Utilities and contractors that push old designs are doing the industry and their customers a disservice.
@ April 30, 2013 11:06 AM in BTU rate Amtrol WH7LThe maximum the tank can absorb would be 80,000. That is based purely on the boiler side connection. The real number may be lower depending on the surface area of the exchanger.
Amtrol should have those numbers if you need to get closer.
@ April 29, 2013 9:55 PM in BTU rate Amtrol WH7LI did not find any info on that exact model. Most amtrol indirect have 3/4" boiler side piping. They also have a fairly high head loss exchanger design. I would be surprised if it will allow more than 4 GPM to flow through.In the very best day that exchanger would release enough energy to give you a delta t of 40 degrees. 4X40x500= 80,000 BTU.
In reality I am not convinced it would be that high.
@ April 27, 2013 7:18 PM in Automatic Water Feeder shuts off power at low water? Plumber says it's the thermostatThe t-stat should be connected to the boiler's isolated t-stat relay. Yours looks like it is wired into the boilers safety circuit.
When the LWCO detects low water it should disable the boiler's ability to fire (the t-stats should be unaffected). It should then signal the water feeder to add water. Once the water is at the correct level, the lwco should read this and the boiler should fire.By your drawing it looks like this is wired incorrectly.
My concern about trying to diagnose and repair this via the internet is that your boiler has been visited by at least one knucklehead. Knuckleheads don't know much about controls. They will just keep moving wires around until it works. By "works" I mean the boiler will get hot and you will stop calling them to fix it.
Any good heating company should have folks that understand how these systems work. They should be able to make sure the boiler is wired according to the diagram in the manual and that it is safe to operate. I know some great electricians and have yet to find one that wants to look at boiler controls. Go figure.
@ April 27, 2013 2:00 PM in Automatic Water Feeder shuts off power at low water? Plumber says it's the thermostatIt looks like your thermostat is connected to the boiler incorrectly. Are there terminals on the boiler that are not being used? Perhaps labeled "TT" or "R1 W1" ? You also seem to have some incorrect wiringl between the LWCO and the feeder.
The problem is once you find something wired this far off, who knows what else they screwed up. I think you should use this info to help find a professional who is qualified to fix it. Once someone has reconfigured the safety circuit, you need to be positive it is fixed correctly. There is a potential that the boiler could fire with a closed damper or that another safety has been inadvertently bypassed.
I think it is time to get someone to look at it that understands controls.
@ April 26, 2013 9:03 PM in Automatic Water Feeder shuts off power at low water? Plumber says it's the thermostatAny chance you could do a simple one line drawing? Just a simple hand drawn showing the devices and how they are connected would be fine. At first glance it looks like you are short a common somewhere. It makes my head hurt without a drawing.
@ April 26, 2013 4:28 PM in Automatic Water Feeder shuts off power at low water? Plumber says it's the thermostatI am assuming that this is the correct manual for your boiler http://cdn.usboiler.net/products/boilers/independence/assets/Independence.pdf
If so the t-stat should always be powered regardless of the LWCO. The boiler will not fire if the LWCO is open.
Can you take pictures and make a drawing of your setup?
It sounds like the LWCO it powering off everything and as you said causing the auto fill to not work.
Yes there should be 3 wires.
It looks like the feeder should be wired like the drawing labled
STANDARD WIRING – NEWER MODELS
It is hard to tell because the manufacture assumes no one knows how to read schematics so they don't print them.
@ April 26, 2013 3:52 PM in Automatic Water Feeder shuts off power at low water? Plumber says it's the thermostatThe t-stat should be hooked to the isolated thermostat relay.
The Low water cut off should be wired in series with the other safety switches.
They should not impact each other.
Beyond that, the fill valve should be tied to the LWCO per the manual and everything should be fine.
@ April 25, 2013 2:51 PM in Alpine MCBA - indirect insltallationDon't pipe the indirect as a heat zone. It isn't a heat zone. Pipe it directly off the boiler. Just buy an indirect with a low head loss and be done with it. It is the best way to pipe it anyway. I haven't found the Burnham manuals to be very well thought out, and would not assume that the new drawing is any better than the old.
Any luck posting a drawing?
@ April 25, 2013 12:49 AM in Alpine MCBA - indirect insltallationI didn't realize you are in the design phase. Do you already have the boiler and indirect?
The easiest thing would be to get an indirect with the correct exchanger so you can pipe it per the manual. If you already have an indirect you could always do a bipass loop.
I cannot view your drawing.
@ April 25, 2013 12:05 AM in An interesting interview with Henry Gifford on his class action law suit agains USGBCThanks Mark,
I love Henry. Scroll down to episode 187. http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-1547/TS-412824.mp3
It looks like there are tons of good stuff on here.
@ April 23, 2013 9:53 AM in Radiator Hot, Thermostat Off WHY?? Triangle Tube Prestige ExcellenceThere is nothing logical about knucklehead installers (that's what you had).
Pressure relief valves are installed to prevent explosions. You are missing one. Aside from that the install is really sloppy (and leaky).
I would find a local company that understands your boiler and have them straighten it out. Anyone that comes to look at your setup and does not insist on a T&P on the domestic is not qualified. Triangle Tube has excellent support if you need more backup.
@ April 23, 2013 12:15 AM in Alpine MCBA - indirect insltallationI think at this point you have a few options:
1.Call burnham to determine if the setting can be changed
2. Use a couple of DPDT relays to make the system do what you want.
3. Repipe the system so the alpine will function as designed.
How is your boiler piped? Do you have a drawing or pictures?
That exchanger notoriously finicky if not piped correctly.
@ April 21, 2013 9:59 AM in Direct Pump TT Solo 110 with 3 zonesChris,
You are of course correct.
This thread is a great example of why the manufactures have not taken this technology across the ocean.
American heating contractors are just not ready to embrace (or understand) something this advanced.
@ April 19, 2013 10:35 AM in Radiator Hot, Thermostat Off WHY?? Triangle Tube Prestige ExcellenceI don't see a t&p on the domestic water.
@ April 12, 2013 11:53 PM in Radiator Hot, Thermostat Off WHY?? Triangle Tube Prestige ExcellenceIt sounds like the diverting valve that changes the boiler from DHW to heating is not working correctly.
The bigger concern is that I do not see the boiler pressure relief valve or the dhw T&P valve. These are major safety components. If you take picture of the entire top of the boiler it would help.
@ April 12, 2013 11:29 PM in Return temperature too lowIt looks like your bipass is a pressure differential bipass. You need a thermostatic type valve to assure the boiler will run above it's condensation point.
@ April 12, 2013 9:31 AM in burnham freedom mod/con boilerWhy are you considering an aluminum boiler when there are so many good stainless ones.
Aluminum would be my last choice.
I think the WM model you suggested is a Givonni exchanger.
I would use a stainless firetube exchanger like Triangle Tube, Lochnivar ect. They require less maintenance, use less circ energy and generally have a better track record.
@ April 12, 2013 12:01 AM in Return temperature too lowThe condensation can be cause by several things. Short boiler cycles, high mass radiators, long uninsulated flue, inadequate circulation.
More about your system?
@ April 11, 2013 11:52 PM in Replacement options for oil furnace?Here is a nice tool www.eia.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls
@ April 11, 2013 11:38 PM in pressure paradox?Bob,
That is quite a puzzle. I assume there is a clear path from the drain gauge to triadicator?
Since your gauge and 2 pressure reliefs say it is less than thirty. Try another triadicator or as suggested move your gauge.