Heating Help

Low head loss

@ April 25, 2013 2:51 PM in Alpine MCBA - indirect insltallation

Don't pipe the indirect as a heat zone. It isn't a heat zone. Pipe it directly off the boiler. Just buy an indirect with a low head loss and be done with it. It is the best way to pipe it anyway. I haven't found the Burnham manuals to be very well thought out, and would not assume that the new drawing is any better than the old.
Any luck posting a drawing?
Carl

Oh

@ April 25, 2013 12:49 AM in Alpine MCBA - indirect insltallation

I didn't realize you are in the design phase. Do you already have the boiler and indirect?
The easiest thing would be to get an indirect with the correct exchanger so you can pipe it per the manual. If you already have an indirect you could always do a bipass loop.
I cannot view your drawing.
Carl

Awesome!

@ April 25, 2013 12:05 AM in An interesting interview with Henry Gifford on his class action law suit agains USGBC

Thanks Mark,
I love Henry. Scroll down to episode 187. http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-1547/TS-412824.mp3

It looks like there are tons of good stuff on here.

Carl

Logic?

@ April 23, 2013 9:53 AM in Radiator Hot, Thermostat Off WHY?? Triangle Tube Prestige Excellence

There is nothing logical about knucklehead installers (that's what you had).
Pressure relief valves are installed to prevent explosions. You are missing one. Aside from that the install is really sloppy (and leaky).
I would find a local company that understands your boiler and have them straighten it out. Anyone that comes to look at your setup and does not insist on a T&P on the domestic is not qualified. Triangle Tube has excellent support if you need more backup.
Carl

Options

@ April 23, 2013 12:15 AM in Alpine MCBA - indirect insltallation

I think at this point you have a few options:
1.Call burnham to determine if the setting can be changed
2. Use a couple of DPDT relays to make the system do what you want.
3. Repipe the system so the alpine will function as designed.
How is your boiler piped? Do you have a drawing or pictures?
That exchanger  notoriously finicky if not piped correctly.
Carl

Correct

@ April 21, 2013 9:59 AM in Direct Pump TT Solo 110 with 3 zones

Chris,
You are of course correct.
This thread is a great example of why the manufactures have not taken this technology across the ocean.
 American heating contractors are just not ready to embrace (or understand) something this advanced.
Carl

T&p

@ April 19, 2013 10:35 AM in Radiator Hot, Thermostat Off WHY?? Triangle Tube Prestige Excellence

I don't see a t&p on the domestic water.

Stuck Valve

@ April 12, 2013 11:53 PM in Radiator Hot, Thermostat Off WHY?? Triangle Tube Prestige Excellence

It sounds like the diverting valve that changes the boiler from DHW to heating is not working correctly.
The bigger concern is that I do not see the boiler pressure relief valve or the dhw T&P valve. These are major safety components. If you take picture of the entire top of the boiler it would help.

ESBE

@ April 12, 2013 11:29 PM in Return temperature too low

It looks like your bipass is a pressure differential bipass. You need a thermostatic type valve to assure the boiler will run above it's condensation point.
 


http://www.danfoss.com/North_America/Products/Categories/Group/HE-HEC/ESBE-Valves-and-Actuators/Thermostatic-Boiler-Protection-Valve/84a52eb4-7041-43d5-8d75-ee4904ce840c.html

Why?

@ April 12, 2013 9:31 AM in burnham freedom mod/con boiler

Why are you considering an aluminum boiler when there are so many good stainless ones.
Aluminum would be my last choice.
I think the WM model you suggested is a Givonni exchanger.
I would use a stainless firetube exchanger like Triangle Tube, Lochnivar ect. They require less maintenance, use less circ energy and generally have a better track record.
Carl

Tell us more

@ April 12, 2013 12:01 AM in Return temperature too low

The condensation can be cause by several things. Short boiler cycles, high mass radiators, long uninsulated flue, inadequate circulation.
More about your system?
Carl

Heatcalc

@ April 11, 2013 11:52 PM in Replacement options for oil furnace?

Here is a nice tool  www.eia.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls

Another guage??

@ April 11, 2013 11:38 PM in pressure paradox?

Bob,
That is quite a puzzle. I assume there is a clear path from the drain gauge to triadicator?
Since your gauge and 2 pressure reliefs say it is less than thirty. Try another triadicator or as suggested move your gauge.
Carl

Good info

@ April 11, 2013 11:29 PM in GE Geospring with an indirect

Here is a link to the spread sheet www.eia.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls
You are presently paying $44.86 per MBTU with the geospring running in non heat pump mode, $17.58 at peak efficiency.
Your boiler is costing $32.45 per MBTU on it's best day.
What do you think of putting the boiler mate before the geospring and setting the boiler mate aquastat as low as it takes to keep the geotherm in heat pump mode?
Just thinking out loud.
Carl

Agreed

@ April 10, 2013 11:24 PM in Boiler Controls

Chris,
The day the boiler comes preplumbed with primary secondary ,can fully modulate the gas valve, blower, and the primary circulator, I will be a happy man.
Any guesses who will get there first? Viessmann?
As far as indoor feedback, learning,  and all, tekmar and others do good job of  this.It really is plug and play. Set up the 0-10 vdc and let it rip.
Carl

What type?

@ April 10, 2013 7:10 PM in GE Geospring with an indirect

What type of boiler is powering the indirect. What are your fuel and electric rates.
Keep in mind the geospring savings are as compared to electric. Another inconvenient fact is that the heat it "pumps" is coming from the air inside the house.
Carl

It works

@ April 9, 2013 11:43 PM in Pipe Length Confusion

The attached file was originally posted by Mark Eatherton. I think it does a nice job of clarifying what is really important.
I think you need to define "it works". Not following the rules will shorten the life of components and cause circulators to underperform. Air entrapment, ghost flows and cavitation are other issues. Technically the system is "working", it still is not good practice.
Sometimes posts just don't catch anyone's attention. There was nothing wrong with your question,
Carl

Thanks

@ April 9, 2013 10:57 PM in Too many options - need help

Heatpro,
Man you sure can type. I appreciate your thorough response. It is always helpful to listen to other peoples though processes. It sound like your approach is working well for you  in your market.
I think I will always be a "keep it simple" kind of guy. I am in the mountains of Colorado. Our boilers are already working 8 months a year.
I think you will continue to like Triangle Tube.  I have a property with forced air heat. I think I will try out a Rinnia.
CArl

A couple cents more...

@ April 9, 2013 2:14 PM in Too many options - need help

This is a good dialog.
I have to agree there are installs in moderate climates and existing structures with difficult conditions where high efficiency doesn't make sense.
For people in zone 5 and less the number will never work.
Heatpro,
As much as I respect you, I can't get my head around installing 2 water heating appliances. It just seems like twice the venting and twice the maintenance.
If you are going to install a high efficiency flue why not install a mod/con and an indirect. WIN, WIN!
I believe that given the sort cycling nature of tankless heaters, they achieve an overall, real world efficiency of no more than 80%. They require far more maintenance than a firetubeHX mod/con with an indirect.
On the heating side,I have never seen a mod/con that did not save a real world 25% over non condensing. The secret is in the turndown ratio. Correctly installed they just don't short cycle.
Carl

R 4.3

@ April 9, 2013 1:14 PM in Slab overpour "Radiant Green" hydronic heating panels?

Right off the bat the manufacture claims an R of  4.3 and an overall thickness of 1".
1/2" tubing measures about 5/8" on the outside. I would assume they left about an 1/8" of space around the tubing, that would leave about a 1/4" for insulation. In the video the bottom looks to be made of plastic, not foam. I think it is safe to say that this product offers no resistance to downward heat loss. I would ask them for an "ES Report" and watch them squirm. The lack of aluminum around the tubing is also going to reduce the heat transfer. I would guess it is called "radiant green" because of the money they will make selling a misrepresented piece of plastic.
Carl

Zone circ

@ April 9, 2013 12:57 PM in Circulators that you can set GPM

If you want a fixed gpm on the boiler side just look at the charts and buy the correct circ. There is very little guesswork in that.
Why in the world does he want zone circs. Zone valves and your bumble bee will use far less energy.
Carl

Boiling??

@ April 8, 2013 8:27 AM in wicked water hammer and boiling in pipes

Your boiler should not be boiling and heating the house during a hot water call. Their is an aquastat (gray box) on the pipe between the pump and the hot water heater. What is it set to?