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Zman

Zman

Joined on January 19, 2012

Last Post on September 1, 2014

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You got it!

@ September 12, 2012 12:15 AM in BTUs of Natural Gas?

That looks correct. It seams kind of strange to figure volumes of gas because it depends on an assumed pressure. Using therms for ng and gallons for lpg works better for Me.
Be sure to figure in the efficiency of the appliances if you are doing an upgrade.
Carl

Plumbers like...

@ September 12, 2012 12:00 AM in Conventional or Indirect HW heater

Plumbers like 1 for 1 replacements. Many do not understand boiler systems. I am guessing that the guy who recommended an indirect does more heating.

You boiler will heat water at 84% efficiency through an indirect. The water heater you have is likely in the 60's.

Gary made some excellent recommendations, I would also suggest DHW priority and an adjustable temp differential to assure long efficient cycles.

Carl 

The Damage...

@ September 11, 2012 11:48 PM in PJH

It sounds like the damage has been done. I don't think you can repair it with sealant. It might work as a temporary "band aid". It may clog your system and create other problems.
The high temp in your system is the biggest enemy of the orange tubing. I pulled 20 year old entran 2 out of a remodel this spring. It looked brand new. It never saw temps over 130 degrees.
Be careful, I can hear it now "it was hardly leaking before you got here".
Carl

Start with

@ September 11, 2012 10:57 PM in Radiant Heat, Pex Suppleir, Parts, Outdoor Boiler Insulated Line

Try dan@heatinghelp.com

More Details

@ September 11, 2012 8:23 AM in Radiant Zones

It is hard to give you an answer with out a drawing or more details. Why are you doing 5 separate pumps and mixing valves? Are they just simple fixed temp valves? Are you planning on outdoor reset? A mod/con boiler would handle this all easily and save you operating costs as well. I am adding up the cost of all these pumps,valves and labor and wonder if you have thought this design all the way through.
Carl

Cost per million btu

@ September 10, 2012 8:05 PM in BTUs of Natural Gas?

The easiest way to get where you are going is to use the attached spreadsheet and convert everything to price per million btu output. You put in you local market pricing and efficiency of the appliance and viola.
Carl

www.eia.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls

Radiant below 30"

@ September 8, 2012 11:26 AM in Supplement heat for window wall.

Mark,
Thanks for your insight. My only reservation about the siggy option is it is to close to the floor.
Carl

Nice windows! Can they retrofit?

Supplement heat for window wall.

@ September 8, 2012 10:28 AM in Supplement heat for window wall.

  


I am working on a home with an existing radiant floor system. The floors are 3/8" pex at 12" OC imbedded in 1 1/2" gypcrete with 3/4" engineered hardwood.I have run a heat loss and am comfortable that on average the floor panels will adequately heat the room.
 
The room is very open with ceilings that vault from 12 to 20 feet. The southwest wall is mostly glass starting 30" off the floor. The glass in this area is on average 12' tall and takes up most of a 22' long wall. The glazing loss of this wall is about 12,000 btu.The 30" wall below the window will house an automatic "down blind". The wall has been firred in 6" to accommodate. The design temp for the system is is 140 degree.The controls will be tekmar tn4. The windows have the worst possible exposure, 9,500 feet on a cliff with tons of wind.
 
My concerns are;
The area in front of this wall will have a radiant cooling effect.
The heat loss will create convective cooling air flow as the cold air falls.
The floors in the surrounding area will overheat to compensate creating uncomfortable conditions.
The room will underperform at night and overshoot during the day.

The options I have thought of are;
Attach a low mass panel radiator to the front of the wall sized for the entire loss.This would provide radiant and convective heat. I am not sure I can sell the owner on this look.
Turn the front of the wall into wall radiant system "siggy's design" generating 60 btu/foot, it would produce about 3,300 btu radiant.
Turn the inside of the wall into a giant baseboard heater. I would use 2 copper fintubes like the ones installed in baseboards the entire length.I would need a slot in the top and bottom of the wall. I am unsure of the size of these slots but thought I could copy the design of a baseboard heater.I am not sure how much convective heat this would produce my SWAG is 6,000-8,000 btu for 40 feet. of fintube.Maybe some little computer cooling fans could raise the output?

Thoughts anyone?
Carl

Why not?

@ September 3, 2012 5:57 PM in 80's coming back to haunt.....

Why not just use an expansion tank designed for potable water.  You have to change the pressure,They cost a bit more but, problem solved.
Carl

Uhmm!!

@ September 3, 2012 12:07 PM in aux heat comes on in cool mode

You are not giving us much to work with....

As of...

@ September 3, 2012 12:04 PM in 80's coming back to haunt.....

As of 2 years ago Triangle Tube would warranty the boiler but not the smart tanks. The boiler is all stainless. They would not allow direct domestic water in the boiler.
Carl

O2

@ September 3, 2012 11:16 AM in 80's coming back to haunt.....

How is the tubing otherwise? "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, How was the play..."
We see your O2 problem pretty often with various tubing types. The TT prestige with a stainless DHW sidearm and circulators is a common  and workable solution.
Carl

Politician

@ August 31, 2012 12:16 AM in School Steam Systems

Roger,
 You will certainly go far in politics. That is important for government work. What experience do you possess that enables you to evaluate climate-tech and their performance? What makes so sure they  know what they are doing? I am sure they kiss butt nicely,do they really know what they are doing? You apologized to them? Who is working for who?
Is there a mayoral election coming up?
Carl

I am happy to hear Kevin still has a job. He has incredible passion.

You can do it

@ August 30, 2012 10:37 PM in trouble with a new system

Sorry,
I didn't post because I wanted to help your heating guy fix your boiler.He is clearly a Knucklehead.
I think you could work this one out.
Carl

Hmm

@ August 29, 2012 11:54 PM in trouble with a new system

You don't seem interested in a linear approach to the problem.
You are not going to solve this without eliminating some possibilities.
The only way air can possibly be entering the system is if you have low system pressure. You don't want to talk about pressures. 
You have a flow problem. Agreed? It could be air locked. You don't know if they are seeing air when they bleed.Do you have a pressure gauge? I think your system is piped in a way that should purge air quite well. If you are hearing lots of air you may have a clogged spirovent
Have you tried to close the valve before the 007 while the system is running? Does it make any noise as you close it? Do you know how little that circ costs? You don't get wear marks on the cover when they are bolted to flanges.
A 007 should be able to pump the zones you describe just fine. If the rest of the zones are similar, the sizing is likely correct.
As for the transformer concern, It may be a problem with all zones open. Post the va number on the transformer and you will have your answer.
Just because you don't know why you are being asked a question, why not post the answer? It is free advise.
Carl

Gravity and ghost

@ August 29, 2012 9:47 AM in trouble with a new system

For years hot water systems had no circulators. They were designed to run on gravity. Cold water is heavier than warm.
The black circulator on the boiler appears to be quite robust.The tee's between primary and secondary are a little farther apart than I would like. Some of the energy from the primary could be ghosting into the secondary providing minimal flows to those zones.
Carl

Is he getting air when he bleeds the system?
What is the pressure?

Focus on the 007

@ August 29, 2012 9:09 AM in trouble with a new system

That one pump could be your entire problem. Bleeding may actually spin the pump and make it work for a while.Are the pumps in this system new? That one looks like it has been sliding around in a service truck.
I don't know how the service tech is isolating the boiler but it sound inexact at best.
Some techs have 2 annoying habits. One is to keep trying to bleed air even if it does not exist. The other is to always blame the boiler (usually the controls).
The reason I keep asking about the pressure is unless you have lower than atmospheric pressure somewhere in the system, Air cannot get in. In a typical 2 story house you might have a 20 foot tall system. Air could leak into the top of the system only when the boiler reads less than 10# and only if there is a leak on the top. If you don't believe it , look carefully into one of your boiler drains and open it up to see if air is entering. Be sure to weare safety glasses and you might want to keep a towel handy.
Carl

The focus

@ August 28, 2012 8:29 PM in Legionella strikes again...

I struck up a conversation with my local health inspector recently. He was aware of the risk from hot tubs and chillers. He was oblivious to the risks from potable water. He thought that it was not a North American issue because we used more chlorine than other countries. He readily admitted that they never tested for it.
Does anyone have any studies on legionilla in North American water supplies. I would love to forward them to him.
Thanks,
Carl

Heat exchanger?

@ August 28, 2012 8:16 PM in trouble with a new system

Are you talking about the heat exchanger in the boiler?
What are your pressure gauges doing and do you trust them?
What is your total system height?
It is possible that the heat exchanger is leaking water into the condensate trap, creating negative pressure on an upper floor where air is entering the system. The fill valve would normally compensate for this.Not that that is a good thing!
I think he is throwing darts.

Model?

@ August 28, 2012 9:55 AM in baseboard using a tankless coil

Which coil? Which boiler? GPM? I assume you are talking about a DHW coil inside a boiler?

Just a Thought

@ August 28, 2012 9:06 AM in trouble with a new system

Has anyone checked to see if the 007 circ before the zone valve is actually spinning? Remove it and check it? The black primary circ with it's relatively widely spaced tee's could be "ghosting" enough water to make you think the 007 is working.
Have you tried to confirm that the tubing is not kinked? Some of the radius's in the boiler room look a bit strained.The trim guy and the drywaller should not be able to hit tubes(nail plates). This makes me think the tubing install may have been a little sloppy. I could see a scenario where the tubing kinks when it contracts(cools) and unkinks when it expands (heats). What happens when you push high flow cold water through that loop?
Carl

System pressure

@ August 28, 2012 12:16 AM in trouble with a new system

How are you determining your actual system pressure? Is it only the gauge on the boiler? I think you need to be certain you are getting an accurate read.Does the gauge fluctuate when boiler and circ. is on or off? How much higher  vertically are the problematic zones in relation to the boiler?
When you bleed, are you getting air? How are you bleeding?
What is the model of the black circ? How about the DHW circ?
Could you also confirm the direction on your circs? There is an arrow on the casting. The black and dhw should be pointed toward the boiler. The zone pump towards the zone valves.
How much piping is there between the boilers tee's (behind the vent pipe)? Is the pipe straight or is there a valve between the tee's
Carl
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