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Eastman

Eastman

Joined on September 30, 2012

Last Post on June 26, 2014

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lots going on there in that comment

@ February 9, 2014 6:14 PM in Tekmar Second Stage Heating Problem

First, just to make sure we are on the same page:

"The 422 only supports two mix temps - Mix1 and Mix2 or Mix1 and Boiler - so I can't have Mix1, Mix2 and Boiler together."

In reference to Boiler / Mix 2 functionality, from p19:

"When the control is to operate mix temperature zones, the Boiler / Mix 2 tN4 DIP switch must be set to Mix 2. The Mix 2 Bus uses a second mixing device to maintain a mix 2 water temperature target. The boiler target temperature is determined using Boiler Load Reset, in which the boiler water temperature is maintained at the lowest possible temperature that satisfies the heating load of the two mixing devices."

And earlier on that page: "The boiler / Mix 2 bus is connected to a Zone manager via terminals 59 and 60."

And that zone manager would need a 440 mix expansion module dropped into it to actually interface with the additional mix hardware. Here's a simple example of where such an arrangement would come into play: Suppose you had a simple on/off cast iron boiler that could only run in a range from 140 and up. With Mix 1 being used for a medium temp application, and Mix 2 for another medium temp zone. The 422 controls the boiler temp supply as needed for DHW, Mix 1, or Mix 2 --whichever demand requires the highest temp, that's what the 422 fires the boiler to. But the BOIL bus settings enforce limits on these demands, even when the bus is set for Mix 2. If we can shift our temp requirements to Mix 2, then we are free to leave the boiler minimum off.

"As the heating cycles continued, H1 and H2 pretty much cycle together which is not what we want. " They are back to being on together roughly the same amount of time?

encouraging

@ February 9, 2014 4:19 PM in Tekmar Second Stage Heating Problem

"H2 shut down but H1 remained on for a while."

However, I'm disappointed the 422 appears to use the BOIL MIN setting as double duty for both boiler protection and the BOIL bus terminal minimum. Is it possible to set the BOIL bus to Mix 2 along with the second stage heat on the 543? (configuring Mix 2 as necessary) That would allow BOIL MIN to remain off, while Mix 2 MIN could be something much higher. Perhaps it would recognize the lack of the Mix 2 expansion module and generate an error.

"I'm wondering how do I get the floor temp to reach 85 (maximum safe temp for hardwood from everything I've read) to get the most BTU's from the floor before the H2 comes on." Does adjusting floor max (higher) appear to have any affect on the actual surface temp? Perhaps the actual floor temperature is more a function of the 543 favoring the responsiveness of the air source over the floor heat as it attempts to maintain a precise air temperature in an unstable environment. My hope is that reducing the system's control over the air coil supply temperatures will force the 543 to recognize that source as less suitable for precision control than the HRF2 source.

Links

@ February 9, 2014 12:20 PM in Bleeping blinking lights - what do they all mean??

Oct 5 2013 -- Short cycling steam boiler
http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/147204/Short-cycling-steam-boiler

Dec 4 2013 -- Whats the difference between a warm weather shut down and an outdoor reset
http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/148219/Whats-the-difference-between-a-warm-weather-shut-down-and-an-outdoor-reset

magnetics

@ February 9, 2014 11:19 AM in Boiler Bypass

What's the connection between an ecm pump and the magnets?

floor max

@ February 8, 2014 11:37 PM in Tekmar Second Stage Heating Problem

When you get around to trying out the settings, you'll need to adjust the max floor temperature to the highest setting you are willing to allow. Based on the behavior you just described, it certainly sounds like that max floor temp setting is limiting the btu output from H1. And if more btus are needed, they're going to come from H2. However, why is the H2 cycle so long? Since there is no BOIL MIN, I believe it's free to pick the coldest BOIL temp possible in an effort to maintain a continuous heat call on that bus. But that's not really what H2 is desired for.

temps

@ February 8, 2014 4:46 PM in Tekmar Second Stage Heating Problem

If you can leave Mix 1 design at 140 that would be best. If not, try 130 or 129. I don't know if the system lets you enter a design temp that is equal to or greater than max.

Keep an eye on targets and actuals. I'm expecting BOIL to be maintained near 140 during an H1 or H2 call, and Mix 1 should really be about the same as it is now. Give the thermostats some time to adjust.

tn4 BOIL bus

@ February 8, 2014 4:09 PM in Tekmar Second Stage Heating Problem

Earlier you mentioned BOIL MIN was off, and the BOIL terminal unit was set for 3 (fan coil) on the 422. The BOIL target/actual temps were about 100. As an experiment, could you set BOIL MIN to 140 and reduce the floor heat Mix 1 max to 130? And finally, although I don't think it should matter, set the Heat 2 terminal on the 543 to control.

Forgot, you'll probably have to reduce your Mix 1 design temp too.

stage two

@ February 8, 2014 2:40 PM in Tekmar Second Stage Heating Problem

Isn't there an indicator on the screen for stage two? Is the stat actually requesting H2?

mix 1

@ February 7, 2014 7:39 PM in Tekmar Second Stage Heating Problem

What is the mix 1 target and actual temps when this happens? Also, are you using a floor sensor with the 543? Could it be you are hitting the max floor temp setting limit?

How is it configured?

@ February 7, 2014 4:29 PM in Tekmar Second Stage Heating Problem

What settings are being used for the heat sources on the 543? How is the 422 configured? Are you running two temps?

zones

@ February 7, 2014 12:22 PM in Tekmar Second Stage Heating Problem

Are you implying that there is a 543 for each radiant floor zone?

something else to look into

@ February 5, 2014 1:15 PM in Infloor Radiant Heat issue

check this out: http://allthingsd.com/20060125/connect-cellphone-home/

Looks like there is a way to connect a cell into a regular residential phone system. I'm curious if you could get it to work with a phone thermostat. -can't see why not.

Combine this adapter with a prepaid cell. You can get a pageplus 1 year contract for $80, and there's no taxes. Trackphone and others may have similar plans. This gives you 2000 minutes on verizon's older CDMA network which tends to be the best for rural areas from what I hear. Maybe track phone would be better in your specific area.

Why fund NORA?

@ February 5, 2014 1:50 AM in Congress seeks to jack up fees on home heating oil in midst of frigid winter

What am missing?

Why would you want this renewed?

@ February 5, 2014 1:18 AM in NORA is back!!!!

I've never heard of this program before, but it seems like the money could be better spent elsewhere.

another possibility

@ February 5, 2014 1:10 AM in Can 1 radiator system be converted to 3 separate ones?

Charge for comfort beyond the legally required minimum temps. There is plenty of thermostats available for landlord control of the temperature. If the tenant wants access to higher temperatures, allow them to pay x dollars for x number of degrees beyond 62.

other options

@ February 5, 2014 12:52 AM in Home improvement heating system options

Minisplits could handle the upstairs bedrooms. You would have precise ac and heat control for each room independently. Perhaps that would be enough to dissuade you from adding more conditioned space above a possible garage?

BTU metering

@ February 4, 2014 1:15 PM in Can 1 radiator system be converted to 3 separate ones?

This suggestion comes up from time to time, but is BTU metering generally legal in the US? I thought it was not.

wasn't this done eventually

@ February 3, 2014 12:18 AM in Hot water baseboard heating

and everything came out good?

More importantly, I'm afraid if everyone did a correct room by room heat loss as the first step, there would be no heatinghelp wall.

It's not all lost, but yeah I think we're getting the picture

@ February 2, 2014 11:55 PM in Hot water baseboard heating

If I remember correctly, the original install was bungled, then fixed, possible boost function change, then the ODR curve was tweaked. Now we're hearing about this bread putting layout of conditioned and unconditioned spaces. With all these unconditioned spaces and a typical ODR curve, the system is going to struggle when the delta between conditioned and unconditioned is pushed.

In a nutshell, sounds like the home is under radiated / under insulated for the expectations/life style of the homeowners, but yes this needs to be confirmed. The solution I guess is really then to give up on the bottom of the ODR curve, or install a boiler controller that uses indoor feedback.

What is the problem now?

@ February 2, 2014 11:24 PM in Hot water baseboard heating

I thought the ultra sluggish heat and DHW issues were resolved.

tstat

@ February 2, 2014 7:41 PM in Infloor Radiant Heat issue

The sensors for the stat should be measuring spots that are representative of the living areas you want to control. Tough call in your case, generally an outside wall is considered bad, but I don't think you have too many inside walls. Closet may not be the best location either, but I don't really know where that is in relation to the rest of your home.

Even if you put the tstat at the outside wall, it will not correct the temperature difference, it would simply increase the temperature of the whole home. You really need to adjust the system's delta T if you wish to affect the floors distribution patterns. This would require a change in the flow rate.

"Are you referring to adjusting the water temp on the boiler while we are not there as well??"
Yes, you may gain additional savings by running at a lower temperature. This may reduce thermal losses into the ground and at the perimeter of the slab. However, I don't think there is a way to adjust that setting without taking the cover off the boiler and exposing you to potential electrical hazards.

I can't recommend any particular phone controlled tstat, I just know they exist. A basic phone line is like 10 to 15 dollars. Call a day ahead and reset the temperature. Forgot to turn the temp down, call and reset it. I'd want one that could call me if the heat goes out.

17 acres

@ February 2, 2014 5:27 PM in Home improvement heating system options

Is 17 acres enough?

Also, this project seems pretty complicated even before considering dual fuel issues. Perhaps, there is an old flue that could be lined and brought back into service for a modern wood stove with outside air?
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