Heating Help

Alpha on primary

@ May 7, 2013 8:27 PM in Delta-P/Delta-T Part #4

Hi Heatpro,

What mode do you run the Alpha on in that situation?

Thanks,

Mark

Lighten up

@ May 7, 2013 7:16 PM in Delta-P/Delta-T Part #4

No need.  I don' think I'm hysterical or anything like that.

I was making a comment on a company's on-line demeanor.  I am a business man.  I run an on-line company and I would never let anyone in my employ use a competitor as a straw man to whack at in an attempt to boost my own product or company in a web posting.  I do not see that as a positive business model.  We are either a good company, or we are not.

You want to attack a CONCEPT, go for it.  You want to unfairly compare your dissimilar product to their's for 4 blog posts running, not winsome.

As to the substance, I didn't like this tease from last week:

"There’s one  big elephant in the room, however.  When it comes to
Delta-P  programming, how the heck do you determine the system head
loss, especially in a retrofit?



Great question – one we’ll address next time."

Well, he really didn't address it so well in the next posting, but he says he will next week. Until then...

When someone implies there is an "elephant in the room", it sounds so juicy, doesn't it?  Here's a problem that no one talks about - determining pesky head loss!

Like I mentioned, Taco's own website shows you an empirical method for measuring head loss.  A homeowner can do it, elephant sitting in the room or not.  Couple of fittings, ball valves and a single pressure gauge.  I've done it.

If you are a pro you can install a few inexpensive Pete's Plugs and measure the pressure differential before and after the pump while opening and closing zone access.  Head loss is a knowable number not a nebulous hypothesis.

I guess I'm just saying directly to John if he reads this - I love your fire.  I love the music.  I love the way you love Taco.  I didn't like the starting tone of this series and I think a few on here have voiced similar concerns after the first posting.  Please teach and don't taunt.  Don't tease.  Don't denigrate.  Take the high ground.

You are now free To Be Cruel to Be Kind to me :-)



 

Not really fun...

@ May 7, 2013 11:53 AM in Delta-P/Delta-T Part #4

Chris, respectfully, I disagree.  This has not been a fun series at all.

John has gone after this competitor's particular pump for about 4 posts now.  The first post was full of snark referencing some anonymous internet forum.  That was sad.  The snark has been dialed back some, but it is obvious he has picked a certain pump for a certain lesson Delta T doubters are to learn. 
 
Taco is a great company.  There is just no need for this.  If you look around the forum today you will find a positively awesome feature on Taco done by Fox News.  Very uplifting.

The Bumblebee is a great product - no need to try to lift it higher by casting the competition as inferior technology.  I think there are Delta P pumps that will adapt to the situation he has outlined, he probably knows that.

He finished his blog last time asking how you would measure head loss in an established system?  Well, his company has a document to tell you how to do exactly that.  I used the instructions with good results.  It is here:

http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/PumpCurves.pdf

If you follow the instructions you will be able to nail the head loss pretty closely. 

I get that you are a fan, and I have learned a lot from John as well.  I just think something got set off a bit ago in a post about using the Bee in a TRV situation.   It just should have been hammered out here, not by taking anonymous shots across blogs.  Not good practice for a great company in the age of Google caching snarky comments for eternity. 
 
This series has just made me sad.  Not more or less inclined to use a Bee, but less inclined to ask open questions on this forum because I'll wonder if I'm the idiot John Barba is talking about.  I know I'm an idiot, I will just wonder if I'm THAT idiot.

Better rip out all the fiberglass insulation!

@ May 6, 2013 12:51 PM in Burnham has a sense of humor!

"I have come to understand that fiberglass loses half of it R-value at -18f, which makes it almost useless in a cold weather climate."
Maybe, if you live in Siberia!  I can't remember weeks of -18f temperatures near Chicago this past winter, can anyone else?

 

Don't provoke the wrath of the Secretary of War...

@ May 5, 2013 8:32 PM in Lesson learned NEVER let the wife tag along to the home show

Like I did today.  Removed the actuator for a casement window to work on the window a week or so ago.  As I am more than capable of doing, I misplaced it.  Evidently.  Or the cat did? Not important, cats can do no wrong.

"Mark, do you know where the crank is?" she asks, slightly loaded for bear.

To slightly plagiarize an old John Prine lyric, I grinned just a second to long.

I found the crank.

What kind of piping scheme

@ May 5, 2013 8:21 PM in Thermostatic Radiator Valve

Does your system use, Joe? Do you know?

I'm 3/4 of the way through a total overhaul converting my mono flow system over to a two-pipe reverse return setup and had a few zones running with TRV's when it was cold.  Very neat!

Sort of like a living organism the way each radiator reacts to its own micro climate zone.  For instance, two kitchen radiators on either side of door.  Set TRV's to same setting, but radiator that gets the draft from our entryway will warm and the other won't need to.  Kitchen still comfortable.

Before, they were combined on a single zone pump and both would be cooking, along with a radiator in a bedroom.

I'm stoked to get it done...

Mark 

That

@ May 3, 2013 9:38 AM in Suggestions for frustrated and confused homeowner

Is criminal.  The 'plumber' deserved what he got.  Sort of joking there...

How in the Sam Hill

@ April 30, 2013 6:43 PM in Taking out a 3 yr old Navian..

Does 5 years out of a $3000+ boiler make any sense?  I saw Dan mention 10 years and out in Europe on his report on the ISH on mandated condensing appliances.

If the goal is efficiency, does not seem very efficient to do this.  If the goal is environmentalism - same thing.

I am stumped, but still Knotgrumpy.

Link to Dan's article: http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/191/Supply-House-Times-articles/2653/Worldwide-Themes-April-2013

Rental

@ April 22, 2013 9:34 AM in Pex expansion challenge

Off topic by a bit, but I am curious.  You rent the hot water heater (or boiler)?  Is that a common practice in Canada?

Thanks,

Mark

What

@ April 20, 2013 9:03 PM in come on wethead buddies

Is the delta-T for a $100, Alex?

Don't

@ April 11, 2013 7:07 PM in Never Cleaned Munchkin 80M

Jump out of the Frypan, into the fire...

These guys will help you.

Did you get a resolution

@ April 10, 2013 8:06 PM in Sandy still haunts my home!

To your problem?

B&G Ecocirc 19-14 Vario

@ April 10, 2013 1:35 PM in Circulators that you can set GPM

Just turn the dial from 1 to 7.  These are very nice ECM circulators and B&G has OUTSTANDING customer service!
I've attached the curve charts for both the Auto and Vario models.

Looks

@ April 10, 2013 1:20 PM in spacing

Like a nice, clean installation.
Mark

Some more pictures

@ March 28, 2013 11:29 AM in Sandy still haunts my home!

You take some good pictures.  How about a few more.  That looks like a B&G Flowtrol on the ceiling.  I've put a few arrrows on things I'd like to see in this picture.

It looks like there is no check valve keeping the smaller circuit isolated from the larger.  If I think like water, I'd probably take the low road rather than pump against gravity.

Which pump

@ March 26, 2013 9:08 PM in Sandy still haunts my home!

Serves the top floor?

Danfoss

@ March 22, 2013 7:41 PM in finned tube convectors with modcon

And probably Honeywell make TRV's with longer tubes.  I am not sure a Danfoss is compatible with the B&G valves, but here is on with a remote sensor and control that can be placed up to 16' away from TRV.

http://www.pexsupply.com/Danfoss-013G8565-Wall-Mounted-Dial-Remote-Sensor-w-16-Capillary

Hope this helps.

Mark

Great images!

@ March 21, 2013 12:48 PM in Radiators piped in series.........

If the water goes in one hole it would seem it's gotta go out the other eventually.

Well

@ March 19, 2013 7:28 AM in Backup boiler piping for solar drainback system

Did you come up with a plan?

My wife

@ March 17, 2013 11:07 AM in gaseous cavitation and glycol solutions....

Won't let me into the house when I'm experiencing gaseous cavitation.

Sorry.  Between the noisy gas valve thread and this one...

Drain back

@ March 14, 2013 8:04 AM in Backup boiler piping for solar drainback system

Do the solar panels just dump the water into the tank? If so, I was thinking about doing the same with the indirect. Plumb it backwards - boiler water into the storage side and use hx in indirect as a 'solar panel'. Pump through that. Pump from near bottom of and dump in top of solar storage tank.

Maybe put indirect on boiler return? Just have to make sure return to boiler is above 130f.

Could you

@ March 13, 2013 6:14 PM in Backup boiler piping for solar drainback system

Install an indirect to store excess heat from boiler and pump out of it to the larger tank?

Just need to be big enough to grab the 'overflow' BTU's from the CGi.

Would seem simple enough.